12-17-2017, 09:14 PM | #178 |
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Data point. I ordered a car, due in later this week, from a dealer ~130 miles from me. At the time of order the local dealers that has allocations wanted $3k over. I felt lucky to even get an allocation at MSRP. I do think the market is shifting though. The dealer I bought my wife’s 428GC from a few years back had basicslly the same car I ordered. After a little back in forth they agreed to do $2200 off MSRP. I think I could have gotten an additional $500-1000 conquest cash, but they said they had run out of codes. Not sure if this is true. In any case I gave the dealer I ordered from an email and asked if they could match. They said they don’t discount the M2. As $2200 isn’t chump change, I had to go for it. So some dealers are discounting and some aren’t.
One last edit... I would say this thread helped me save a bunch of cash. So thanks! |
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norMcal284.50 M3 Adjuster7905.50 |
12-17-2017, 09:35 PM | #179 | |
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Or the seller is bidding it up himself and has not met the reserve? |
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12-17-2017, 09:41 PM | #180 | |
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12-17-2017, 10:59 PM | #181 | |
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I have an interest in a restaurant business, and you might walk into one particular location and be thinking, "what are these clowns doing with that huge wine list, for this sort of a restaurant?" You'd be right to some extent, and wrong in the sense that our labor cost is oh so much more of an issue than a few thousand dollars worth of unsold wine, that we don't even talk about the wine, it's a non-issue. That M2 that's been sitting on the lot for 2 months might be just the same sort of non-issue for the BMW dealer. The great thing about being a customer is that we don't have to give a shit about any of this; economic forces in the end will win out. We can just watch from the sidelines and let it happen.
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12-17-2017, 11:04 PM | #182 |
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I have to agree with you that it makes no sense to bid this much ($55K), plus buyer's premium, to buy this slightly used car. There could also be some "fine print" in the seller's contract with BaT that allows them (BaT) to bid up to just below a reserve price, depending on circumstances. I have seen auctions for other goods that are set up in that way. In a sense, it isn't dishonest if the price is below the reserve and the car wouldn't sell anyway, below that price. On the other hand, it potentially misleads other bidders who might be acting in good faith.
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12-18-2017, 03:02 AM | #183 | |
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12-18-2017, 08:03 AM | #184 | |
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12-18-2017, 09:08 AM | #185 | |
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They send them out regionally. Texas and the SW received the HEA cars first. Then got no more deliveries for awhile as they then shipped cars to other parts of the country. |
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12-18-2017, 09:35 AM | #186 | |
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Yes, do a deal on a 2018 for $500 over invoice and post the PO. |
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12-18-2017, 09:42 AM | #187 | ||
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Supply has not caught up to demand ! |
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12-18-2017, 11:11 AM | #188 |
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There are two elements that make a market; yes, you guessed correctly, they are supply AND demand.
Demand tends to be over-stated by enthusiast forums, as it costs nothing to post about one's interest in buying a car, plus there is the factor of herd mentality. Supply and demand for this car have always been in balance; the way that the marketplace has managed this is by such things as waiting lists and dealer markups. Those not able to buy an M2 at a price they were willing to pay have simply held on to what they had, or bought something else other than an M2. Demand for an M2 is infinite at $0 dollars, and very limited at $100,000. If you tell me that I will get less than my trade in is worth (at least to me), and the M2 will cost more than I am willing to pay, I have no further interest in the car, other than shooting the shit on this forum, perhaps. So, for me, at this instant, I'm not buying one of these things. In 2 months, all may change, and I may be a buyer, or I may not be. I'm no different than anyone else on that score, and fortunately, I already have a bunch of cars I enjoy driving, so it is no big deal whatever the outcome.
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12-18-2017, 01:08 PM | #189 | |
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Me: Is the M2 you have listed at MSRP on gargurus still available? Sales person: Yes it is. Me: Is that your best price? SP: We sold the last three at MSRP Me: I see a lot of them available at the moment and some listed for $1000 below MSRP. I'm shopping for the best deal. I would not buy at MSRP SP: What do you have in mind? Me: Would you do $1000 over invoice? SP: Let me talk to my manager, when could you come down? Me: I'm not local, but could fly out there if you are willing to make that sort of deal. SP: I think we can, but it would have to be in the next couple of days, we wouldn't hold the car for that deal. Me: OK, I will call you back. Thanks! So obviously this was not a done deal, but I did not get the sense that I was being unrealistic and it was one try. I'm sure if I work a little harder at it and/or wait for end of month/year, or a little deeper in to the winter things will only get easier. So you guys keep telling yourselves that the supply has not met the demand, but a few months ago any dealer would have laughed at my offer. |
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12-18-2017, 01:50 PM | #190 |
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The BaT auction ended at the $55k bid. Looks like it sold and wasn't under reserve. So one person actaully didn't mind paying more for this car then what he could have bought it new for. Maybe it made sense for him, since he was local and the car is what he wanted?
Anyway, there are some interesting remarks in the comment section of that auction. Like this one: The market is a little strange here in SoCal. Some dealers are still asking ADM, others are charging MSRP and some are letting them go for under. Market data point: I got a very similar new M2: same color, manual, no exec pkg, but black kidneys and with adaptives (factory was putting the on some cars at no charge) for $2200 under MSRP 2 days ago. Only downside was it came with the Contis and I would have preferred the Michelins. |
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12-18-2017, 02:44 PM | #191 | |
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12-18-2017, 07:09 PM | #192 |
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I like how norMcal starts this thread and keeps it going by reiterating what he/she believes to be truth from the get go.
Every comment made was to reaffirm the believe that obviously "supply has caught up with demand". Even going as far as saying a fellow M car enthusiast is foolish when his belief is challenged. A car is worth what the person is willing to pay. Just because you think it's not worth it, does not mean it's not worth it for someone else. The supply/demand discussion is simply a regional thing, some areas are plenty/possibly under MSRP, while other areas are still Market Adjustment+. /thread |
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12-18-2017, 08:00 PM | #193 | |
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12-18-2017, 08:36 PM | #194 | |
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When you have a situation like a new car where the manufacturer spells out a "suggested price," or "MSRP," with a certain number of units being produced, then the market adjusts to this with such things as dealer markups, and waiting lists where your place on such a list may be related to your other relationships with a dealer. In the latter case, you are paying for the car with not only money, but your time and patience. Time and patience have a price and a value; one of the reasons that some people use private jets or buy first class airplane tickets is that they do not want to have to wait for other people, so they buy their way out of that problem. To talk about there being "more demand" for an M2 now than there is supply, the silly assumption is that the demand part of the equation is fixed. It most definitely IS NOT fixed. If my local dealer were to call me up and tell me that he had exactly the car I wanted at a price I would be willing to pay, and by the way he'll give me what I think my trade in is worth, then I'm in. If on the other hand he has a somewhat different vehicle and it's at a price I'm not willing to pay, I'm out. So don't count me and however many other people there out there who have thought once or twice about buying this car as part of the "demand" for this car. My interest in this car is very uncertain and depends on particular things that if not present results in no demand on my part. And I believe there are lots of other people just like me whose demand for this vehicle or for anything else is extremely soft.
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12-19-2017, 12:25 AM | #195 | |
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You: Hey, that deal we talked about earlier today? I'm on my way. SP: Oh, sorry, that car is already sold. When supply = demand I should be able to pop into any dealership & drive out with the car, not wait for an opportunity to order one & months for delivery. Just about any other car in the sub-six figure range can either be bought from existing inventory or ordered that same day. Having to wait for an 'allocation' to be able to place an order simply means that supply doesn't meet demand, however small each category actually is. |
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12-19-2017, 12:30 AM | #196 | |
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Edit.. and if you're looking for a Mineral Gray, manual, exec pkg, black grills, at MSRP, Encinitas will have it this week. Talk to Davin. |
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12-19-2017, 12:42 AM | #197 | ||||
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I actually noticed that listing and was surprised to see a SoCal car listed for MSRP. Thanks for confirming that one can negotiate $2200 under MSRP. Last edited by norMcal; 12-19-2017 at 10:11 AM.. Reason: spelling |
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12-19-2017, 01:09 AM | #198 |
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I'm a fairly good negotiator. I got $5200 off my wife's custom ordered MB GLC300 this month too, but honestly I think with the M2 it was probably dumb luck. "My guy" at the dealer, the one I bought my wife's 428 from 3 years ago, told me no deals under MSRP, even though they had the car listed $564 under on their website (pic below). I called someone else at the same dealer and within a few phone calls we had a deal. I got a ride over and picked it up 2 hours later. So if your sales rep doesn't want to deal, maybe try someone else at the same dealer.
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