[RedCarrot]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Not everyone's idea of fun is straight line speed. 126 mph is quick but not any faster than a FBO F80/F82 and that still turns and handles well on track

Even though it most likely wore track tires, it carried serious speed around the bends in this video. It reeled in several what look to be track prepped P cars during the turns.

In stock form the RS3 is on par with the M2 in rolling acceleration and lap time (on dry track), so to suggest it doesn’t turn or handle well is very much a stretch. We may not like that its rear doesn’t rotate, but its turning/handling ability is a whole different matter.

[Dylan86]

^^ Great video. Also demonstrates that no matter wtf a magazine says, driver is everything! Buy the car you want to own, and enjoy, and have fun with it. Clearly the M2 owners on that track are not skilled enough to get everything out of the M2, that it has to offer. Unfortunately the case for most owners of expensive sports cars..

APR is legit, guys.. Can't knock them for breaking boundaries like a 10 second street car ($60k family sedan) with simply a tune, fuel, and 150lbs weight reduction. Add a dp, intercooler and meth, keep the car at full weight and you'll get equal or better results. The DSG gearbox is the most robust dual clutch available on the market as well, so not sure why some still struggle to comprehend this?

Coming from a euro car guy who loves his RWD BMW... You negative Nancy's just can't be THAT biased or naive??

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

^^ Great video. Also demonstrates that no matter wtf a magazine says, driver is everything! Buy the car you want to own, and enjoy, and have fun with it. Clearly the M2 owners on that track are not skilled enough to get everything out of the M2, that it has to offer. Unfortunately the case for most owners of expensive sports cars..

APR is legit, guys.. Can't knock them for breaking boundaries like a 10 second street car ($60k family sedan) with simply a tune, fuel, and 150lbs weight reduction. Add a dp, intercooler and meth, keep the car at full weight and you'll get equal or better results. The DSG gearbox is the most robust dual clutch available on the market as well, so not sure why some still struggle to comprehend this?

Coming from a euro car guy who loves his RWD BMW... You negative Nancy's just can't be THAT biased or naive??

Looked like it went past that AW M2 pretty easily too.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by JTO24

I know Ms are not for straight line speed but the RS3 is running low 11s with a stage 1 tune and downpipes... I mean I love RWD + 6mt but that's seriously fast for a small sedan. It will see 10s pretty soon.. The TTRS is already there.

BMW should make a M2 GC or 1M hatch to compete in this market - I love the utility of my F80, but wish I could shrink it ~ 15-20%. The RS3 is a really nice package and is also cheaper than the M3. Pretty compelling for those that want something more compact.

[ZPrime]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

^^ Great video. Also demonstrates that no matter wtf a magazine says, driver is everything! Buy the car you want to own, and enjoy, and have fun with it. Clearly the M2 owners on that track are not skilled enough to get everything out of the M2, that it has to offer. Unfortunately the case for most owners of expensive sports cars..

APR is legit, guys.. Can't knock them for breaking boundaries like a 10 second street car ($60k family sedan) with simply a tune, fuel, and 150lbs weight reduction. Add a dp, intercooler and meth, keep the car at full weight and you'll get equal or better results. The DSG gearbox is the most robust dual clutch available on the market as well, so not sure why some still struggle to comprehend this?

Coming from a euro car guy who loves his RWD BMW... You negative Nancy's just can't be THAT biased or naive??

My problems with APR stem from their deceptive business practices in the past, as well as something another tuner (who I trust) has seen in their tunes (altered the OE/factory anti-knock routines in software, which shouldn't be necessary and is potentially dangerous to the engine). They are not what they used to be. They basically went bankrupt a while ago and were bought by Mangrove Equity so it could be cleaned up and re-sold. They were just (Nov 16th of this year) sold to Driven Performance Brands, which is the parent company of Dinan.

Hopefully they are better-run under Driven than they were in the past.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by pz619

So I’m trying to decide what car to get next, so I started looking at the RS3 but find myself less excited about it now. Love that it’s 4 doors and really like the interior. The negatives are the AWD and auto only. Also found it weird that the staggered setup is that the wider rubber is in the front of the car versus the rear. Just shows that the car inherently understeers.

Regardless I’m still going to check it out in person. Who knows, it might grab me in a way that I just can’t see on paper.

You're my evil twin! I live in San Diego too and and was just looking at RS3 also. So here are my thoughts. I have no problem with staggered setup. I autocrossed front wheel drive for many years and ran bigger tires up front. No one will notice except you because it does handle better. My problem with the Rs3 is that it is too heavy and pretty expensive. Also there is only one Audi dealer in all of southern San Diego and I have not been impressed with their service quality. They were originally a VW/Audi dealer I bought a GTI from them. The same mechanics services VW audi and they were hacks. It was awful.

The real deal killer for me is no manual also, although I just bought the wife a Mk7 GTI with dual clutch and it is basically the same gearbox. It works well with the motor and my buddy has the new Golf R, and it also works well.

Right now they are giving Mk7 GTIs away. I just got 6K off MSRP for a 4 door because the next generation will have 6 year 72K mile warranty.

I would pick up a 4 door GTI brand new, then with the 40K you have left over, get another cool toy car.

PS, you can also get GTI in manual still and I think Golf R also which is same chassis as RS3 and Chris Harris said he preferred how the Golf R drove.

Best wishes!

[specka]

Hey all,
I was absolutely sold on the RS3 Sedan and eagerly awaited its release. When it finally came out I was first in line to test drive at the dealership here in Melbourne.
My first impressions of the car were overall good - it was the Aria Blue with Black pack, very nice. Quite a small looking car and a bit 'pedestrian'. Interior, well we all know it is a great interior.
Unfortunately, when I drove it I was a bit underwhelmed. I drive a Scirocco R and I simply didn't find this car offered me enough excitement over and above this car.
The 5cyl sound everyone raves about I find too much exhaust and not enough engine.
I got back to the dealer and felt disappointed because I really wanted to love it.

Over the next month I drove it again and also the M2. I got back from the test drive of the M2 and I COULD NOT stop thinking about it and how amazing it was to drive. The sound, the appearance, the steering and dynamics all amazing!
I was disappointed by the interior at the price point, but I just never got over that car until I ordered a new LCI in BSM a couple of weeks ago

That's just my take on it. I suspect the RS3 is faster, and probably safer in the wet and it is a wonderful car in its own right, but its a trade off for the sheer enjoyment and visceral experience of driving the M2.

It has taught me something too. I always hated BMW cars - I had a prejudice that was based on my belief that they were only about status and were overpriced - that you can get a better car for half the price. I was young I guess and used to say stupid unfounded things. The M2 has shown me that you know when you are driving a truly special car.

[vassili]

Originally Posted by specka

That's just my take on it. I suspect the RS3 is faster, and probably safer in the wet and it is a wonderful car in its own right, but its a trade off for the sheer enjoyment and visceral experience of driving the M2.

that's what sold me, it's quicker to 60. don't track the car. pros for the rs3 outweighs the ones from m2...even though the exterior look is and will forever bug me about the rs3.

RS3 pros:
faster in a straight line (90% of my driving is in a fairly straight line )
4 doors
awd (in canuck land)
better interior (srsly a huge plus here, it's where i sit everyday)
RS3 leather seats are softer than the m2
android auto (srsly, wtf bmw?)
gimmicky, but a flat bottom steering wheel and virtual cockpit
at least 5K cheaper out the door for similar equipment (in canada)
unique 5 cyl sound

M2 Pros:
nimbler, faster in the twisties (this is a huge plus for weekend driving)
better looking exterior (again, huge points for this)
possibly cheaper maintenance, but that's still to be seen.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by vassili

that's what sold me, it's quicker to 60. don't track the car. pros for the rs3 outweighs the ones from m2...even though the exterior look is and will forever bug me about the rs3.

RS3 pros:
faster in a straight line (90% of my driving is in a fairly straight line )
4 doors
awd (in canuck land)
better interior (srsly a huge plus here, it's where i sit everyday)
RS3 leather seats are softer than the m2
android auto (srsly, wtf bmw?)
gimmicky, but a flat bottom steering wheel and virtual cockpit
at least 5K cheaper out the door for similar equipment (in canada)
unique 5 cyl sound

M2 Pros:
nimbler, faster in the twisties (this is a huge plus for weekend driving)
better looking exterior (again, huge points for this)
possibly cheaper maintenance, but that's still to be seen.

you forgot that it also has the wrong transmission.

Seriously. it's the reason I passed on it. otherwise your list is pretty spot on. I do find the overall build quality better in the m2 as well. Audi doors feel like they are plastic.

[vassili]

Originally Posted by stefan

you forgot that it also has the wrong transmission.

Seriously. it's the reason I passed on it. otherwise your list is pretty spot on. I do find the overall build quality better in the m2 as well. Audi doors feel like they are plastic.

canadian rs3s got leather on the doors and kneepad area if you ordered the grey stitching. it looks fairly high end. and i love the dual clutch. i know some of you are "stick or die", but i've driven a stick for 8 yrs and i was ready to call it quits.

only complaint is that when i turn up the woofer in the bang & olufsen, the driver's door handle buzzes a bit until i gently pull on it. this car has one of the most satisfying thunks i've heard in a car when you close the door.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by vassili

that's what sold me, it's quicker to 60. don't track the car. pros for the rs3 outweighs the ones from m2...even though the exterior look is and will forever bug me about the rs3.

RS3 pros:
faster in a straight line (90% of my driving is in a fairly straight line )
4 doors
awd (in canuck land)
better interior (srsly a huge plus here, it's where i sit everyday)
RS3 leather seats are softer than the m2
android auto (srsly, wtf bmw?)
gimmicky, but a flat bottom steering wheel and virtual cockpit
at least 5K cheaper out the door for similar equipment (in canada)
unique 5 cyl sound

M2 Pros:
nimbler, faster in the twisties (this is a huge plus for weekend driving)
better looking exterior (again, huge points for this)
possibly cheaper maintenance, but that's still to be seen.

Oh shit I know you from The Shack! lol

[vassili]

Originally Posted by akkando

Oh shit I know you from The Shack! lol

wut up lucy!

[vassili]

whoa, RS3 just made top 10 car of the year in Car & Driver. You would think the M2 would be somewhere on that list too.



https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-today-feature

[BruceM]

I sit in my car every day as well, and yet interior is way down the list of my priorities in a sports car. And that includes "soft leather seats."

I suppose a sport car's interior and accessories could be SO shitty that it would materially affect the driving experience, but the M2 is well above that point for me.

What makes this my car is RWD dynamics that are well executed, relatively short wheelbase, good power and a stick. Not that interested in "faster", if "faster" just means straight ahead drags. I have a supercharged, flashed and pulley-ed V-8 Jag that could spank the M2 in pretty much any speed range, but it is not as fun to drive in the twisties or on the track. Fun, but not as fun--it is meant for different things. As far I'm concerned, with a few tweaks over stock the M2 car is close to an ideal DD, and a hella fun track car that is relatively easy to drive fast.

Different strokes for different folks--when it comes to cars, truer words were never spoken.

[tke743]

Originally Posted by RedCarrot

Even though it most likely wore track tires, it carried serious speed around the bends in this video. It reeled in several what look to be track prepped P cars during the turns.

In stock form the RS3 is on par with the M2 in rolling acceleration and lap time (on dry track), so to suggest it doesn’t turn or handle well is very much a stretch. We may not like that its rear doesn’t rotate, but its turning/handling ability is a whole different matter.

Originally Posted by vassili

that's what sold me, it's quicker to 60. don't track the car. pros for the rs3 outweighs the ones from m2...even though the exterior look is and will forever bug me about the rs3.

RS3 pros:
faster in a straight line (90% of my driving is in a fairly straight line )
4 doors
awd (in canuck land)
better interior (srsly a huge plus here, it's where i sit everyday)
RS3 leather seats are softer than the m2
android auto (srsly, wtf bmw?)
gimmicky, but a flat bottom steering wheel and virtual cockpit
at least 5K cheaper out the door for similar equipment (in canada)
unique 5 cyl sound

M2 Pros:
nimbler, faster in the twisties (this is a huge plus for weekend driving)
better looking exterior (again, huge points for this)
possibly cheaper maintenance, but that's still to be seen.

I owned an M2 (and F80 M3 comp), I currently own a RS3, and I can say the above is mostly correct. FYI, the video is a great example of driving.

This said, the driving of the 2 cars at the limit is VERY different. One is classic RWD where you adjust where you want the rear with the right foot. The other you have to balance it all the time or it will push. Brake in a straight line, trail brake to keep weight on the nose while turning in, then power out after setting the line. If you lift post throttle it will step the rear out. Calling the RS3 less nimble is inaccurate, it’s just is different. Calling it slower in the corners is inaccurate as well. If driven correctly it will out-corner the M2 and be on power far sooner and it’s quicker in the straight then the M2. I bought the RS3 while waiting on the M2 Comp as I prefer the classic RWD feel.

This said I would not object to the RS3 as a long term daily/track car. My only MAJOR gripe is the lack of headroom in the RS3, it’s ridiculous.

Note: The BMW interfaces and I-drive are MUCH better.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by RedCarrot

Even though it most likely wore track tires, it carried serious speed around the bends in this video. It reeled in several what look to be track prepped P cars during the turns.

In stock form the RS3 is on par with the M2 in rolling acceleration and lap time (on dry track), so to suggest it doesn’t turn or handle well is very much a stretch. We may not like that its rear doesn’t rotate, but its turning/handling ability is a whole different matter.

Originally Posted by Dylan86

^^ Great video. Also demonstrates that no matter wtf a magazine says, driver is everything! Buy the car you want to own, and enjoy, and have fun with it. Clearly the M2 owners on that track are not skilled enough to get everything out of the M2, that it has to offer. Unfortunately the case for most owners of expensive sports cars..

APR is legit, guys.. Can't knock them for breaking boundaries like a 10 second street car ($60k family sedan) with simply a tune, fuel, and 150lbs weight reduction. Add a dp, intercooler and meth, keep the car at full weight and you'll get equal or better results. The DSG gearbox is the most robust dual clutch available on the market as well, so not sure why some still struggle to comprehend this?

Coming from a euro car guy who loves his RWD BMW... You negative Nancy's just can't be THAT biased or naive??

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Looked like it went past that AW M2 pretty easily too.

I don't think most drivers in a RWD car are going to be as confident as a driver in an AWD when hustling a car around a track on damp pavement. ..


I saw two M2, a Porsche race car and a 911 all give point bys to the AWD vehicle.

The first car in the video gave a point entering 6 and also entering 7. The driver in the RS3 wasn't pushing it in the corners as he waved off the point twice and then took it on the back stretch.

[RedCarrot]

R&T RS3 Article

[Benef1cient]

M2 vs Audi RS3 drag race, next episode is going to be head to head on track.

[RedCarrot]

Head to head lap result is in:

Time to give credit where credit is due and stop this ‘RS3 goes off the road in turns’ nonsense. In the hands of mere mortal like 99.9% of us, the RS3 is easier to drive near/at its limit, albeit less fun than the M2.

Embrace the competitions that push the mfr of whatever car you like to make even better car. We are the winners here.

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by RedCarrot

Head to head lap result is in:

Time to give credit where credit is due and stop this ‘RS3 goes off the road in turns’ nonsense. In the hands of mere mortal like 99.9% of us, the RS3 is easier to drive near/at its limit, albeit less fun than the M2.

Embrace the competitions that push the mfr of whatever car you like to make even better car. We are the winners here.

I'm giving the RS3 credit. But you said it yourself. It's less fun than the M2 and that's why I made the right purchase.

[akkando]

I wish they would dyno cars on the same day then use that for their HP stats, just to get a more accurate comparison as far as stats go. That way when they say one car has an HP or torque advantage over another we would know the actual delta between them.

[Evil///M]

Butt hurt cause the RS3 is faster than the M2? No problem throw a tune on it and now you're faster.