[goj]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

Wrong

The biggest hole is no M wagon

While I understand the allure of the sport wagon, wagons aren't big in the United States so it can't be a big hole.

I honestly think the 3 and 5 GT are the efforts to find the wagon type vehicles that might stick. Also helps that Europeans like all sorts of hatch back type vehicles

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by SteveSpy

If they made a gt they'd need to stretch the frame / wheelbase...

However they made the 4 series GC or the 6 series GC can be done to a 2 series.


I own an E84 X1 and and an E82 1M that are made on the same chassis/platform.

One has 5 doors and the other has 2...

[mkoesel]

Given that they are counting M Performance vehicles toward M Division’s total - which admittedly makes sense - 2018 and 2019 are going to be record years for M Division.

2017 - M550i, X3 M40i
2018 - X2 M35i, X4 M40i, tentatively X5 “M50i”, tentatively X7 “M50i” (names not confirmed yet), Z4 M40i, M340i, M850i
2019 - possible X1 M35i, M135i Sedan (China), M135i Sporthatch, M235i GC

There are also some M40d and M50d models coming (not to US).

All of those except the M135i hatchback, which succeeds the current M140i hatchback, will represent brand new products. Now, you could rightly point out that those M Performance models are merely taking over the spot of what used to be the top trim non-M model. But, in any case, this means that all of those sales will now count toward M Division’s total.

[asiflicious]

Kind of silly to compare sale numbers to the 1M when it was a limited production car lol

[SeanWRT]

BMW sedan outselling coupe is not always true with M cars, m3/m4 being the best sample. A 4 door m2, be it sedan or GC, should be a similar exception.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by SteveSpy

I never made the claim that the 2 door models outsell the 4 door models in the same line.

You will have to forgive him he eats drinks and sleeps M2 Gran Coupe's and I don't blame him.

[Nahlem]

Well BMW you made a car that people truly like why wouln't it sell as good as it has done so far?

I just hope they will release a M2 Sedan aka "GC" with either an variant on the S engine or a variant on the new B 58 engine the M240i has. The N55 is the sole reason and also only being a coupé is the reason i have not sign up to buying an M2. Although i have driven the M2 a lot despite now owning one but i just can't justify buying the M2 with the N55 when i sold my 235i for other reasons but din't want to buy an car having pretty much the same engine as before even though the whole car has been remade pretty much considering the M2 being sick how good it is compared to my former 235.

I just cant justify buying the N55 again when leaving it behind. And buying another Coupé i wan't a 5 door car but i don't want the M3 because its way to big. The 2 series is the perfect sized car it just lacks the 2 extra doors.

Hoping BMW releases an M2 Sedan soon and would be nice with x-drive and hybrid line but that is probably asking to much... or is it?

Time will tell.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Alden_88M

Well BMW you made a car that people truly like why wouln't it sell as good as it has done so far?

I just hope they will release a M2 Sedan aka "GC" with either an variant on the S engine or a variant on the new B 58 engine the M240i has. The N55 is the sole reason and also only being a coupé is the reason i have not sign up to buying an M2. Although i have driven the M2 a lot despite now owning one but i just can't justify buying the M2 with the N55 when i sold my 235i for other reasons but din't want to buy an car having pretty much the same engine as before even though the whole car has been remade pretty much considering the M2 being sick how good it is compared to my former 235.

I just cant justify buying the N55 again when leaving it behind. And buying another Coupé i wan't a 5 door car but i don't want the M3 because its way to big. The 2 series is the perfect sized car it just lacks the 2 extra doors.

Hoping BMW releases an M2 Sedan soon and would be nice with x-drive and hybrid line but that is probably asking to much... or is it?

Time will tell.

Let me get this straight, M2, with 4 doors, AWD, and hybrid? Yeah I don't think so......

[sakson]

... proving that people still want true BMWs - nimble and fun to drive. Not this generic/mainstream crap they've been doing for the past few years.

[Cavpilot2k]

BMW should take note of this.
Most of us want a pure fun driving car in an M, not some bloated, over-sized boat like the M3/4 have become. (I did an Autocross day in an M4 and came away thinking "it's nice and all, but it's way too big and bloated-feeling").

M5/6 is its own niche for luxury sport sedan and GT car, but for daily fun, M2 is the best car BMW makes right now.

But keep the 4 door for the bigger cars- M2 doesn't need them.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Alden_88M

I just hope they will release a M2 Sedan aka "GC" with either an variant on the S engine or a variant on the new B 58 engine the M240i has.

The 2 Series Gran Coupe has already been spotted testing, and it is clear that it will not share a platform nor engines with the 2 Series Coupe and Convertible. It will instead use the UKL platform and therefore be limited to four cylinder engines. That means that the top model will be the M235i I mentioned in my earlier post. Theoretically an AWD M2 GC model with a sky-high output four cylinder similar to the CLA45 is possible, but indications are that BMW will be opting out of that segment. Instead they will continue with just the M2 coupe and convertible which will remain RWD since the next generation 2 Series coupe and convertible will also reportedly remain RWD.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

You will have to forgive him he eats drinks and sleeps M2 Gran Coupe's and I don't blame him.

And M2 CSL with 6MT... but we digress

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The 2 Series Gran Coupe has already been spotted testing, and it is clear that it will not share a platform nor engines with the 2 Series Coupe and Convertible. It will instead use the UKL platform and therefore be limited to four cylinder engines. That means that the top model will be the M235i I mentioned in my earlier post. Theoretically an AWD M2 GC model with a sky-high output four cylinder similar to the CLA45 is possible, but indications are that BMW will be opting out of that segment. Instead they will continue with just the M2 coupe and convertible which will remain RWD since the next generation 2 Series coupe and convertible will also reportedly remain RWD.

BMW opted out of the segment after the E46 bro... ..

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

BMW opted out of the segment after the E46 bro... ..

In a way I'd agree. Remember though, neither Mercedes nor Audi had a sub-3-Series/C-Class/A4 sedan either until 2013 when the CLA and A3 sedan hit the market. The E46 hasn't been with us in sedan form since 2004. So what is now the new entry-level luxury sedan segment wasn't really created until nine years after that iconic model's death. During that time, BMW sold the 1 Series hatchback along side their competitors' A Class hatchback and A3 hatchback. That was where the market was at for small luxury cars, but unfortunately the US hasn't been a very fertile place for compact luxury hatchbacks. Audi tried with the A3 but other than a low-volume hybrid, they stopped sales here after the last generation.

Now, BMW also introduced the 1 Series Coupe and Convertible in that period as well which their competitors did not have answers for (the TT isn't really the same form factor). So, clearly they had the chance to lead the pack with a small sedan as well. Instead, they not only did not seize the opportunity, but they've also let years go by now without matching up with their competitor's four door models in the marketplace. They finally introduced the 1 Series sedan a few years ago, but only in China. We'll get the 2 Series Gran Coupe, but not for a couple more years. The downside is that it comes just as BMW moves most of their small car lineup to a FWD platform like their competitors have. The upside *could* have been a car like the RS3 or CLA45, which are not RWD obviously but are nevertheless quick little four door machines. But, as I say, we won't even get a product like that from BMW.

It's great that the RWD 2 Series and M2 will live on for another generation complete with inline six power. But the lack of a more practical M model below the M3 will continue to be unfortunate.

[Dinh335]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Actually this is NOT correct.

BMW is producing multiple models from the same platform, which actually helps by allowing the development costs to be amortized across those many models.

It costs them less to create an additional model using an existing platform ( for example a 4 series gran coupe and a 3 series GT on the 3 series platform ) than it does to design and produce a new model from the ground up.


Consider something as simple as "Pringles potato chips ". It's easier to create 25 different flavors of the same chip than it is to create a whole new style of potato chip. Yes of course there is money spent developing each new flavor however the costs of production and packaging are nil because the company is simply using existing manufacturing processes.

It's exactly the reason that currently bmw builds multiple vehicles off multiple platforms.

The X1 and the Mini share platforms for example. It's very little additional development needed to make an X2 off the same platform.

If bmw needs to make say 20,000 of each item ( let's say an engine ) for the X1, producing another 10,000 of the same item for an X2 is a lot easier than designing a completely new item.

Regardless of the product, Production costs usually decrease with volume. If a motor costs $7k to develop each of 20,000 units, the unit cost per motor will be cheaper with 30,000 units made , and that allows you to produce each individual vehicle for LESS.

I think the argument isn't about volume saving money, its about the ability to just focus on one item and making that consistently good ..to use your pringles analogy...is that despite pringles having multiple flavors, original (and maybe salt n vinegar) are the only two good ones and the other flavors kind of suck.

[termigni]

Originally Posted by Tag

I get nervous when everyone starts pouncing on BMW for not making a sedan. I don't disagree with you, but my concern is BMW finally got a car right (for the most part). I don't want them to take their eye off the ball and go down the rabbit hole of pleasing everyone and their products start to suffer or get neglected more than they already have been.

I'd be fine if they roll out a small sedan for the next gen of cars, but please BMW, I beg you, don't go and f**k up the good thing you have going now!

i believe they already are down the rabbit hole of pleasing everyone and their products already started to suffer.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Dinh335

I think the argument isn't about volume saving money, its about the ability to just focus on one item and making that consistently good ..to use your pringles analogy...is that despite pringles having multiple flavors, original (and maybe salt n vinegar) are the only two good ones and the other flavors kind of suck.

yes... but that is the issue with manufacturing these days..

Manufacturers are not willing to take a risk on developing new products.. ESPECIALLY when they are concerned about their own cash reserves...

However.. if the manufacturer can reduce costs, pump out additional products and create additional income... then perhaps they will also spend some of that back in innovation. Simply expecting a company to innovate products with ZERO income is something we have already seen works marginally. See TESLA.


So.. let them make 45 different versions of pringles.. all you have to do as a consumer is walk by all the flavors you don't like (and hope they sell REALLY WELL ) until they make one you do like. One thing I can tell you.... is it will NOT happen the other way around.

PS.. I hate salt and vinegar chips. That " flavor" is one of the 45. Original and Sour Cream and Onion are the REAL Pringles OGs. (original gangsters)

Originally Posted by termigni

i believe they already are down the rabbit hole of pleasing everyone and their products already started to suffer.

understand that too... and you are wrong.. (I am sure there are PLENTY of other crappy automotive products that you won't want that haven't been developed yet..) Keep in mind that more money down the rabbit hole doesn't mean that the manufacturer can't still produce a gem on occasion.

What the heck do sportscar fans think is going on over in Stuttgart as they build more and more Cayenne, Macan, and Panameras and 45 different (see how I did that with the 45 ) anniversary edition Boxster and 911 models (there are at least 20 variations of those Pringles by the way! ) .. all so they can make the car that rabid sports car fans want.. like a Cayman GT4 or 911 GT3.

[mWHO]

Couldn't BMW just offer a boatload of options for the M2 to offset potential M3 sale losses? That is where the margins are right?

Also does anyone hope that like Porsche with their GT series, BMW could offer NA race-bred engines?

[Top pup]

Originally Posted by VCP

2019

Hopefully, and yet I still think BMW will feel the need to keep the M2 in it's place.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by Top pup

Perhaps with strong sales BMW might stop trying to keep the M2 pegged back behind the M3/4.

Nah we are good

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by asiflicious

Kind of silly to compare sale numbers to the 1M when it was a limited production car lol

Not quite.

2700 1M cars worldwide were initially scheduled for March 2011 (SOP) to June 2012 (EOP) production. When I ordered mine, it was 1 out of 41 allocated by BMW to my country.

But as its success, accolades and sales frenzy took BMW by surprise, BMW decided in Summer 2011 to produce as many 1M cars as the production capacity in the Leipzig factory allowed till the June 2012 EOP. No production limit, just squeeze in as many 1M production slots as practically feasible in the already very busy production schedule of the Leipzig facility. As an airport getting creative with flight slots: create slots for extra flights and re-allocate existing slots, but possibilities are limited by time and resources. By EOP a total of 6309 had rolled off the production lines. The hectic 1M production rollercoaster ended.

So, if we're getting into semantics, in a way every car is limited production: SOP to EOP. If you mean a preset number (1 out of x cars) with limited production: just the US (740 - March to December 2011) the UK (450) and France (100). If you mean scarce: the E46 M3 CSL was scarce, but equally no limited production and merely a quarter of the 1M production number.

M2 production also got ramped up a couple of months after SOP, as demand exceeded supply, causing long waiting lines up to a year or even longer for some. Those waiting lines are gone by now. Demand for the M2 has gone soft since a couple of months: those who truly wanted an M2 got one, some potential buyers jumped ship to other models or brands (especially because the M2 waiting lines were way too long back in 2016) and some are waiting for the release of the forthcoming M2 Competition later this year.

The M2, forthcoming M2 Competition, M3 CS and M4 CS: no limited production - just as many as the production facility can handle to catch up with demand. To quote the exact words by BMW M boss Frank Van Meel when speaking about the M4 CS: "not a limited series, just limited by production capacity" (source: here).

So, 'limited production': depends on how you interpret that notion.

[Dinh335]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

yes... but that is the issue with manufacturing these days..

Manufacturers are not willing to take a risk on developing new products.. ESPECIALLY when they are concerned about their own cash reserves...

However.. if the manufacturer can reduce costs, pump out additional products and create additional income... then perhaps they will also spend some of that back in innovation. Simply expecting a company to innovate products with ZERO income is something we have already seen works marginally. See TESLA.


So.. let them make 45 different versions of pringles.. all you have to do as a consumer is walk by all the flavors you don't like (and hope they sell REALLY WELL ) until they make one you do like. One thing I can tell you.... is it will NOT happen the other way around.

PS.. I hate salt and vinegar chips. That " flavor" is one of the 45. Original and Sour Cream and Onion are the REAL Pringles OGs. (original gangsters)
.

Don't worry I'm a chip enthusiast. While not OG..Salt N Vinegar is worthy.
Blue gatorade however, that is a shame.