[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I'm sure BMW would love not to have to change a model so soon and it is still not set in stone. I agree that they are driven by marketing, it would piss them off to no end if their little M was getting its butt kicked by Audi and Mercedes.

It's interesting,before the M2 was launched there was internal information for dealer's eyes only that was subsequently posted on this early forum showing what the main rivals were.A sort of briefing to commonly held questions of what customers were most likely to ask.

The M2 was compared to the amg A45 Mercedes and Audi RS3.The document underlined the merits of both cars compared to the M2 with things such as 0-60,weight and top speed etc.

It's almost like BMW were preparing themselves for the hard sell.Obviously this has been confined the the history books as the M2 made a case for itself as leader on and off the track and has most probably taken them by surprise no doubt.

I would tend to agree with you that now BMW have found their feet with the M2,it's something they won't give up on lightly and with the competition upping the ante,they probably feel obliged to do the same.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by kugasman

+1 This seems the most likely scenario.

The most interesting thing to me in this whole M2 CS/CSL/GTS rumor mill is the relatively short initial build cycle and limited availability for the M2. It still makes no sense to me that BMW has turned off so many potential buyers due to unavailability, dealer markups etc. If I could have ordered one and done ED like any other BMW I'd have ordered one by now. I also can't look at or test drive one since my local dealer (KC) doesn't have one.

The announcement of the Audi RS3 saloon for the US market next year does lend some credence to at least a quick refresh/lci upgrade for the current M2. BMW knew this car was coming before we did and knows they have to keep pace. BMW is driven by marketing and sales much more than they are by the enthusiast market as we all know.

I don't know how fun to drive the RS3 will be compared to the M2 but it's also intriguing to me because if I decide I only want to own one car it needs to me AWD. For me right now I'd mainly consider a 340i xdrive or the new RS3. While the RS3 might not give me more smiles as a daily than the M2, it might be more fun than the 3 series.

The thing to keep in mind is that the Quattro system in the RS3 is Haldex. The S4 and up use a Torsen differential based AWD system that is far superior.

Haldex is basically FWD, with the ability to drive the rear wheels when needed. In the past, Haldex only engaged the rear wheels after slip was detected. The result is terminal understeer that could not be avoided. The same slip that engaged the rears caused understeer at the front.

Having said that, the RS3 uses the same updated Haldex system as the new TT RS. It incorporates more inputs to determine when to engage the rear axle. This should reduce the unavoidable understeer present in older iterations, but the engine is still transverse and in front of the front axle. That's hard to dial out in suspension setup.

Then again, Porsche has made a great number of incredible automobiles using "the worst" engine layout.

I would definitely test drive one before making the decision, but you should include the S4 in the mix as well, so you can get a sense of how the Haldex compares to the Torsen based system.

[kugasman]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I'm sure BMW would love not to have to change a model so soon and it is still not set in stone. I agree that they are driven by marketing, it would piss them off to no end if their little M was getting its butt kicked by Audi and Mercedes.

BMW dealers don't like to offer ED to models when they are in high demand and under strict allocation. Believe it or not the M235i had a similar situation to the M2, when it was first released there were very few EDs and they had MSRP + prices. I bought mine just after they took the M235i off of strict allocation so I got ED and a big discount. I don't think BMW makes any money off of excess markups, I've read that the dealers buy the cars from BMW so it is the dealers that are to blame for excessive markups and they pocket the bounty.

One of the reasons I bought a RWD BMW was for RWD. I've owned several Audi quattros, they are great solid cars. I think Audi interiors are the most solid in the industry, my Audi with 100,000 miles on it still had a solid interior with no creaks or rattles. If I were looking for AWD, I'd be giving the Audi some serious consideration, they stick to the road like super glue. I would not consider a 340x over an RS3, they both have 4 doors and I think the RS3 would be a lot more fun. I'm not a fan of the Audi 6 speed DCT transmission that the put in the S3, but I've read that the RS3 is getting the 7 speed DCT transmission which must be similar to the 7 speed DCT in the S4/S5. I drove an S4 with the 7 speed DCT and it was really a good transmission.

I totally understand why the dealers are doing what they are doing. I still think BMW had to change course here faster than they were anticipating and I think they planned/created this high demand by limiting supply.

The one thing the 340i has going for it is 6MT which would be my preference. Also have looked at used S4 with 6MT. I love my X5 but I'm yearning to get back into a sports/sporty car. Of course if I had 2 cars I could get into a used E9X M3 for about the same money and keep the X5. F8X looks awesome but just didn't grab me like the idea of the M2.

[Euromeister]

Surely BMW could not afford to put a S55 engine in the basic M2 for 2018 without a price hike.
They could have made a 400bhp basic car with a S55 instead of nicking bits from the S55 from the N55.
They did it to keep the price down!
A 2018 M2 with an S55 engine will cost more !!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

It's interesting,before the M2 was launched there was internal information for dealer's eyes only that was subsequently posted on this early forum showing what the main rivals were.A sort of briefing to commonly held questions of what customers were most likely to ask.
The M2 was compared to the amg A45 Mercedes and Audi RS3.The document underlined the merits of both cars compared to the M2 with things such as 0-60,weight and top speed etc.
It's almost like BMW were preparing themselves for the hard sell.Obviously this has been confined the the history books as the M2 made a case for itself as leader on and off the track and has most probably taken them by surprise no doubt.
I would tend to agree with you that now BMW have found their feet with the M2,it's something they won't give up on lightly and with the competition upping the ante,they probably feel obliged to do the same.

You are undoubtedly referring to these two documents:

• BMW M2 Product Bulletin Oct 2015: see pages 4 and 6 (comparo BMW M2 - Mercedes Benz CLA 45 AMG - Audi RS3 Sportback);
• BMW M2 Product Bulletin Nov 2015: see pages 21 to 24 (comparo BMW M2 - Mercedes Benz CLA 45 AMG - Audi RS3 Sportback).

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Euromeister

Surely BMW could not afford to put a S55 engine in the basic M2 for 2018 without a price hike.
They could have made a 400bhp basic car with a S55 instead of nicking bits from the S55 from the N55.
They did it to keep the price down!
A 2018 M2 with an S55 engine will cost more !!

I agree, but if they only change the engine, a facelift and a few options the price might just go up a bit, maybe $5,000., which is just a guess.

[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

It's interesting,before the M2 was launched there was internal information for dealer's eyes only that was subsequently posted on this early forum showing what the main rivals were.A sort of briefing to commonly held questions of what customers were most likely to ask.

The M2 was compared to the amg A45 Mercedes and Audi RS3.The document underlined the merits of both cars compared to the M2 with things such as 0-60,weight and top speed etc.

It's almost like BMW were preparing themselves for the hard sell.Obviously this has been confined the the history books as the M2 made a case for itself as leader on and off the track and has most probably taken them by surprise no doubt.

I would tend to agree with you that now BMW have found their feet with the M2,it's something they won't give up on lightly and with the competition upping the ante,they probably feel obliged to do the same.

Originally Posted by Artemis

You are undoubtedly referring to these two documents:

• BMW M2 Product Bulletin Oct 2015: see pages 4 and 6 (comparo BMW M2 - Mercedes Benz CLA 45 AMG - Audi RS3 Sportback);
• BMW M2 Product Bulletin Nov 2015: see pages 21 to 24 (comparo BMW M2 - Mercedes Benz CLA 45 AMG - Audi RS3 Sportback).

Spot on these are the one's

Later than I thought though.