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      10-05-2014, 09:04 PM   #89
Fergy33WF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
The M4 is irrelevant, the Mustang can beat it.
Car and Driver has the following for their test results:

-----
Mustang GT
0-60:4.5s
1/4 mile: 13.0 113mph

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...mustang-gt.pdf

-----
M235i
0-60: 4.5s
1/4 mile: 13.1 108mph

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...2014-bmw-m235i

-----
M4
0-60: 3.9s
1/4 mile: 12.1 119mph

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...e-specs-page-4


I don't understand the Mustang GT vs M4 idea that everyone has. Missing a second on the quarter mile and half a second 0-60. The M235i test data is neck and neck with the Mustang GT in almost every category. The difference being the extra power with that V8.
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      10-06-2014, 04:10 AM   #90
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Way to cherry pick your tests. The M4 was a DCT and the Mustang GT a manual - that's good for .4 sec of the difference right there. Apples to apples the GT will clearly be faster than the 235 and close enough as makes no difference to the M4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergy33WF View Post
Car and Driver has the following for their test results:

-----
Mustang GT
0-60:4.5s
1/4 mile: 13.0 113mph

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...mustang-gt.pdf

-----
M235i
0-60: 4.5s
1/4 mile: 13.1 108mph

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...2014-bmw-m235i

-----
M4
0-60: 3.9s
1/4 mile: 12.1 119mph

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...e-specs-page-4


I don't understand the Mustang GT vs M4 idea that everyone has. Missing a second on the quarter mile and half a second 0-60. The M235i test data is neck and neck with the Mustang GT in almost every category. The difference being the extra power with that V8.

Last edited by Devon K; 10-06-2014 at 10:53 AM.
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      10-06-2014, 08:52 AM   #91
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Pretty sure its a fact that for drag racing in a line American cars will always be the better value.
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      10-06-2014, 09:27 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David1 View Post
There is no discount for a manual transmission because it still has to be emissions certified at the same cost to do so as the auto. BMW has to get a return back on the manuals since even on the M2 most will be auto/dct. I know I no longer want a manual especially after driving a 911 Carrera S with the pdk for 1300 miles.
So the DCT doesn't need to be certified thus discounted for manuals?

I hope you will continue to support manuals. Yes, the PDK is good and I traded my GTR, and CLA45 because the auto became boring to drive. For low traffic area the manual is much more of a drivers car in my opinion. The stick is the reason I did not get a Porsche Macan as my daily driver. I really like that vehicle. Drive like a sports car and easy to use and get around in. I may get one in addition but, not as a replacement for stick.
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      10-07-2014, 03:39 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakdown61
Pretty sure its a fact that for drag racing in a line American cars will always be the better value.
Maybe but the resale value sucks on American cars. Period.
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      10-07-2014, 07:39 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr View Post
So the DCT doesn't need to be certified thus discounted for manuals?

I hope you will continue to support manuals. Yes, the PDK is good and I traded my GTR, and CLA45 because the auto became boring to drive. For low traffic area the manual is much more of a drivers car in my opinion. The stick is the reason I did not get a Porsche Macan as my daily driver. I really like that vehicle. Drive like a sports car and easy to use and get around in. I may get one in addition but, not as a replacement for stick.
I just can't into DCT's unless it's a the track. I've tried. Plus I live in SC where there's really not much traffic anyway, and my cars are a joy to drive even at 30 mph, whereas DCT is not IMHO.

I'll definitely be sticking with MT, whether I decide to go with M2 or M3, that's another story.
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      10-07-2014, 08:52 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devon K View Post
Way to cherry pick your tests. The M4 was a DCT and the Mustang GT a manual - that's good for .4 sec of the difference right there. Apples to apples the GT will clearly be faster than the 235 and close enough as makes no difference to the M4.
Except there is no DCT offered in the Mustang (though you can get one in the Focus and Fiesta - go figure). I haven't seen any information that the 6 speed auto is faster than the manual in the Mustang either. Unless the manual is faster, they tested the two fastest models of the cars available. That seems fair to me, and not cherry picked.

I would also point out that the DCT is only worth 0.2 seconds according to BMW.
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      10-07-2014, 09:47 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr View Post
So the DCT doesn't need to be certified thus discounted for manuals?

I hope you will continue to support manuals. Yes, the PDK is good and I traded my GTR, and CLA45 because the auto became boring to drive. For low traffic area the manual is much more of a drivers car in my opinion. The stick is the reason I did not get a Porsche Macan as my daily driver. I really like that vehicle. Drive like a sports car and easy to use and get around in. I may get one in addition but, not as a replacement for stick.
All powertrain combinations needs to be certified under EPA guidlines.
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      10-07-2014, 02:59 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
I'm not sure why you guys are talking about ED invoice on M cars. Perhaps I am mistaken but I thought that all M cars do not get discounted even with ED.
Because members have been able to negotiate an M3 at ED invoice. To date to my knowledge no one has been able to acquire an F80/82at ED invoice but pretty darn close. In fact 2k roughly above ED invoice is the norm. That's pretty damn good for such a new M.

Here I posted this question a while back to ED members asking what sort discounts and negotiations took place. Information is power
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1031573
Take a look at post #16 they even did better then 2 k. They got $1250 over ED INVOICE

Quote:
Originally Posted by patbrass View Post
They are. http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...erYourBMW.aspx

Hover over the M-cars to see the discounts. And from what I can see, the discounts are the same in percentage as the non-M cars.
For sure they are. And if a dealer tries preventing you to get your 7% discount walk out of there immediately! Come on here post a thread "ready to buy car immidiately ED only dealership please help" you'll be amazed at how many dealerships hang out on here and will step right up to oblige!
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Last edited by Jadar; 10-07-2014 at 03:06 PM.
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      10-07-2014, 03:04 PM   #98
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I imagine if you get PCD delivery even after ED, you could essentially go with any dealer in the country?
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      10-07-2014, 08:35 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakdown61 View Post
I imagine if you get PCD delivery even after ED, you could essentially go with any dealer in the country?
Plenty of members do that. I plan to do the same, just have to shop around
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      10-08-2014, 02:45 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernstem View Post
Except there is no DCT offered in the Mustang (though you can get one in the Focus and Fiesta - go figure). I haven't seen any information that the 6 speed auto is faster than the manual in the Mustang either. Unless the manual is faster, they tested the two fastest models of the cars available. That seems fair to me, and not cherry picked.

I would also point out that the DCT is only worth 0.2 seconds according to BMW.
That .2 figure seems low, real-world tests typically find a good DCT is .3 or .4 seconds faster than a manual through 60 MPH.

Acceleration tests with the auto GT are not out yet but given that the auto is a very modern sport-oriented one it's likely very close to a DCT in performance - it will have locking clutches (or whatever the term is) for all gears other than first to eliminate the typical power-sapping slippage of a conventional auto tranny when shifting.

The one thing working against the Mustang is relative engine power - apparently the M3/4 powerplant is seriously under-rated by BMW, it's getting near the specc'ed values at the wheels in dyno runs.
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      10-08-2014, 03:29 PM   #101
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      10-08-2014, 09:11 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dd1981 View Post
Because members have been able to negotiate an M3 at ED invoice. To date to my knowledge no one has been able to acquire an F80/82at ED invoice but pretty darn close. In fact 2k roughly above ED invoice is the norm. That's pretty damn good for such a new M.

Here I posted this question a while back to ED members asking what sort discounts and negotiations took place. Information is power
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1031573
Take a look at post #16 they even did better then 2 k. They got $1250 over ED INVOICE



For sure they are. And if a dealer tries preventing you to get your 7% discount walk out of there immediately! Come on here post a thread "ready to buy car immidiately ED only dealership please help" you'll be amazed at how many dealerships hang out on here and will step right up to oblige!
Dang!!! Interesting. Good to know! Thank you!
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      10-09-2014, 11:35 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
I disagree. The C7 is a completely different car. Sure if the buyer is looking for a fast car then the C7 is a great option. However, it is two seater, complete sported out car. It's not practical. I don't see many people cross shopping a C7 and any BMW coupes.
Do you live in the States..?

Nobody buys a M2, to have back seats, it is for duffle bags, etc. If the M2 is $55k.. many people will opt for a Corvette. Which can have magnetic ride and BMW doesn't offer.

People don't buy a BMW M's for non-performance.. (), ..so "sported out car" is exactly what these buyers are looking for.
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      10-09-2014, 12:24 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
Do you live in the States..?

Nobody buys a M2, to have back seats, it is for duffle bags, etc. If the M2 is $55k.. many people will opt for a Corvette. Which can have magnetic ride and BMW doesn't offer.

People don't buy a BMW M's for non-performance.. (), ..so "sported out car" is exactly what these buyers are looking for.
You are ridiculous. Go buy a Mustang or a C7 then, your opinions only apply to you. Believe it or not, some of us do have a use/need for a back seat. When I lived in England for 4 months, all I had was a MINI Cooper S convertible, and still managed to fit 4 people to go to the beach. What if you had a toddler or a baby? A small coupe is still more than manageable in that situation.

That's not the point though. Some of us are looking for cars that can do everything well. Who the hell are you to say what people buy their M's for? If it doesn't suit your need, then don't buy it. But stop trolling please.
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      10-09-2014, 12:48 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
You are ridiculous. Go buy a Mustang or a C7 then, your opinions only apply to you. Believe it or not, some of us do have a use/need for a back seat. When I lived in England for 4 months, all I had was a MINI Cooper S convertible, and still managed to fit 4 people to go to the beach. What if you had a toddler or a baby? A small coupe is still more than manageable in that situation.

That's not the point though. Some of us are looking for cars that can do everything well. Who the hell are you to say what people buy their M's for? If it doesn't suit your need, then don't buy it. But stop trolling please.
So, that is why you are buying a M4/M2..? , because you need a back seat..? Or do you need the performance..? Both?

That was the point.
How many times do you throw your kids in the back and hit the nurb..? All the time, or twice every 5 years..? Don't dismiss a comments, because your needs for a sport car handling, includes a utilitarian back seat.

All-of-a-sudden your priorities/needs change..?




Coincidentally, most don't take 4 people in a Corvette to the beach... you meet people there. Or take your SUV and pile everyone in. What you really wanted, is what every American male my age has wanted, the M135i... which is a 5-door barn stormer that BMW refused to sell here.

Instead I am stuck with a 135is.. that isn't track ready and now looking to buy a SUV for utility.



So no matter anyone's personal situation, a $52k M2 will easily be compared to the C7, &/or the new Mustang. Pro tip, BMW's backseats aren't magical..
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      10-09-2014, 01:04 PM   #106
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Why are we talking about mustangs again...
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      10-09-2014, 01:06 PM   #107
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I'm definitely interested in the M2 because it is a practical car (large trunk and backseats to occasionally carry someone). Just like I have with my 135i.

Why? Because if performance is the only criterion, then it makes more sense to buy a real sports car that is not compromised by being based on a "saloon" car.

I don't know why people think M cars are solely about performance. If that is the case, they would take out the back seats to save weight and make the entire car a lot more focused. M cars are about having an awesome chassis wrapped in a practical package.
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      10-09-2014, 01:19 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by smakdown61 View Post
Pretty sure its a fact that for drag racing in a line American cars will always be the better value.
Up until the time that breakdown or get recalled!!
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      10-09-2014, 02:10 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
So, that is why you are buying a M4/M2..? , because you need a back seat..? Or do you need the performance..? Both?

That was the point.
How many times do you throw your kids in the back and hit the nurb..? All the time, or twice every 5 years..? Don't dismiss a comments, because your needs for a sport car handling, includes a utilitarian back seat.

All-of-a-sudden your priorities/needs change..?




Coincidentally, most don't take 4 people in a Corvette to the beach... you meet people there. Or take your SUV and pile everyone in. What you really wanted, is what every American male my age has wanted, the M135i... which is a 5-door barn stormer that BMW refused to sell here.

Instead I am stuck with a 135is.. that isn't track ready and now looking to buy a SUV for utility.



So no matter anyone's personal situation, a $52k M2 will easily be compared to the C7, &/or the new Mustang. Pro tip, BMW's backseats aren't magical..
Look, this is ridiculous. If you are looking for a pure sports car like a Corvette, then the M2 is obviously NOT for you. Why come here at all? What I want in a car and what you want is completely different. Not to mention our needs compared to say someone in London is completely different too (it's not easily feasible to have an SUV and a sports car).

We are here because we are interested in an M2. Whether it's because we like the looks of it, or because it's more practical than a C7, or because it's more fuel efficient than an S65, who the hell cares? Who cares if I go to the beach with friends once a year or 3 times a week? I know what I need my cars to do.
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      10-09-2014, 02:43 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
Do you live in the States..?

Nobody buys a M2, to have back seats, it is for duffle bags, etc. If the M2 is $55k.. many people will opt for a Corvette. Which can have magnetic ride and BMW doesn't offer.

People don't buy a BMW M's for non-performance.. (), ..so "sported out car" is exactly what these buyers are looking for.
They are different cars. A person looking for a sports car could buy a Cayman, a Corvette, an M2 (or 235i), a Z4, etc. Let's put aside the performance per dollar for a second since they are all in the same price range. What is the deciding factor that someone would buy an M2 over a C7 or Cayman then? Well it is all personal preferences or biases. Perhaps they want backseats and a trunk to be able to carry their golf clubs (Cayman can't really do that). Perhaps they want to be able to carry friends once in a while. Perhaps 2 seaters are just more expensive to insure. Whatever that reason might be, those cars suit different needs.

I personally looooove the new Stingray. That thing is so gorgeous I would sleep with it. Would I own one? Absolutely! If I had a family hauler then I could get a 2 seater car. However, if I'm looking for an every day performance car, I would look into something like an M3, 235i, etc. It all boils down to personal needs and preferences. I for sure did not cross shop the C7 before picking up the 235i. I am interested in the M2 but I won't be cross shopping it with the C7 either.
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