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      05-06-2016, 12:44 PM   #595
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I do. had it a week
Any chance you want to come show it to me at the airport around 4pm today?

been working in NE Ohio, heading back to Canada tonight. My bright red rental Camaro is very easy to spot haha
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      05-06-2016, 12:48 PM   #596
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I do. had it a week
Any chance you want to come show it to me at the airport around 4pm today?

been working in NE Ohio, heading back to Canada tonight. My bright red rental Camaro is very easy to spot haha
sounds like a Craig's list meet up.
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      05-06-2016, 12:50 PM   #597
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sounds like a Craig's list meet up.
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      05-06-2016, 01:33 PM   #598
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#1 Dayton, OH area dealer
Which dealership?
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      05-06-2016, 01:39 PM   #599
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#1 Dayton, OH area dealer
Which dealership?
Voss. I've had my car for about 3 weeks
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      05-06-2016, 01:58 PM   #600
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Voss. I've had my car for about 3 weeks
Nice. I put down a deposit at the Evans Motorworks dealership on Poe Ave. Allocation is suppose to be in May (still waiting), with an estimated delivery of August 2016.
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      05-06-2016, 02:01 PM   #601
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Voss. I've had my car for about 3 weeks
Nice. I put down a deposit at the Evans Motorworks dealership on Poe Ave. Allocation is suppose to be in May (still waiting), with an estimated delivery of August 2016.
Nice! I'm hoping you guys get your cars soon. It seems like nobody has any concrete dates yet
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      05-06-2016, 02:06 PM   #602
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Anyone get information about May allocations yet? I heard the dealers expect them to come in first or second week in May?
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      05-06-2016, 04:03 PM   #603
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Anyone get information about May allocations yet? I heard the dealers expect them to come in first or second week in May?
Word is they're supposed to drop on 05/10
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      05-06-2016, 06:07 PM   #604
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Anyone get information about May allocations yet? I heard the dealers expect them to come in first or second week in May?
Word is they're supposed to drop on 05/10
Usually it's first or second Monday. This one is a little later than most -calendar quirk
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      05-06-2016, 06:54 PM   #605
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Exactly ! I began saying the exact same thing 5 years ago as the 1M was being produced and everyone says - you are just speculating !

Yes I am. But all the info is there and one simply needs to put it together.

BMW production models and locations
BMW sales figures
unattractive Lease rates
Marketing strategy/savvy
Sales strategy /savvy
number of available allocations
Lack of profit on low production model



Combine all the data and one realizes that M2 is the sizzle that's selling a lot of M235, M3 and M4 steak for BMW AG... And then one begins to realize ... Hey wait... They really Aren't. Gonna. Crank . Up. Production. Like , They . Normally .Do...

I 100% agree. I think that if you want to get a M2 you will be able to if you are patient. That said I don't think they are going to be dime a dozen. Not 1M rare but certainly not like the M3/4. Only time will tell.

I find it hard to believe the BMW brass are sitting in Germany going "Wow this thing is really popular. We had no idea this would happen. Quick triple the production next week." Surely they had to have some idea about the demand from data analytic/marketing people. I think people are looking at it from at narrow point of view. They assume hey its popular they will build to suit demand. This I think would be true if it didn't come at the cost of building another car which has a better profit margin at the factory. I do think the M2 is a Halo car. It has done a great job of getting people to talk about the brand and in the door at dealerships. What more could they ask for. That said it would be interesting to know what the profit margin is on the M2 vs other cars built in Leipzig.



You are exactly correct. Most people are looking at this through the narrow prism
Of M2 sales.

Most people simply assume that BMW is trying to maximize profit on the M2 and would try and sell as many as possible.

While I don't have specific numbers, once again the answer is in volume.

The more that an item is produced, expenses to produce the item are reduced.

If BMW sells 10,000 cars. It will have a certain cost for making those 10,000 units. If BMW makes 100,000 of the same model then the cost to produce each unit will be lower.

2 series cars sell about 1000 a month in the US

3 series cars sell about 4000 a month in the US.

4 series cars sell about 3000 a month

After 2 years of production that is 24000 units of 2 series and 168,000 of 3/4 series.

Can anyone guess which vehicle is going to have a production cost that is continually falling as the years go on ? Would that be the vehicle that also can be heavily discounted ?


However it's a very common sales strategy to heavily a market a product with little or even NO profit, (read : M2) and instead sell FROM that product up or down to other products. (Read: sell down to M234 or sell up to M3 and M4).

I've seen in these forums a dealer CA state that there is $4500 profit to the dealer on the M2. I have *zero* reason to doubt that.

So... Let's hazard a guess at profits..or at least bear with me for my example.

I would bet that accordingly the profit on the sale of a stock M3 or M4 is probably close to $6500 and probably around $3500 on the M235. Of course, additional profit can be added to the sale ... For the M235... Via a healthy options list... The M2, a single option (!) and the M3 and M4 have a lengthy options list including extended leather and Individual.

So.... Sitting on the showroom floor, there is a loaded M235, loaded M2 and loaded M4.

Any decent sales rep will tell you that be selling UP from M2 all day long because there are more profit dollars available on the M3 and M4. ( more money in sales rep and the dealer pocket ). It also is going to be far more profitable selling a loaded M235 in comparison to the M2 on the floor.

Anyone here in sales ? What does a sales manager tell yo to sell ? Sell what is in stock !

If BMW limits the production of the M2 while the M235, M4 and M3 also are all plentiful, buyers will not have the option of buying an M2 unless they wait a loooong time.

As BMW ( artificially ) limits options on the M2,
It makes the other models all more attractive.

Let's see. How does BMW make the M2 less attractive to buyers ( some markets vary )

Only 4 Exterior color choices
No "M" seats
No "M " mirrors
Non glossy CF
No sunroof option -
No M buttons with memory
Fewer suspension options

Etc.

How about one more way to run buyers off - unfavorable lease terms !


I mean seriously , could BMW tilt the table for buyers any further away from the M2 ??!

What if BMW AG loses money on every single M2 they sold. ? What if all the additional costs in making the wider body, changing the line for bringing over the M4 suspension, and retooling the assembly line for wider vehicle mean that they actually lose money per unit.?

That used to happen all the time in sales by marketing a loss leader - an item that you know will actually lose money - and instead selling the customer a different item that is profitable.

It's a process some might call " bait and switch" .. However in order to not be caught in a bait and switch - the company must sell the customer a " loss leader " if the customer demands it !



Of course , if the customer that comes in looking for an M2 is easily swayed by an M3/M4/M235 that's " in stock" ... Then call it another win for ///marketing !



So how many people actually DEMAND an M2?
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      05-06-2016, 07:29 PM   #606
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I'm not convinced the M2 is a loss leader or a halo car engineered to cross-sell. I truly do think they critically misjudged the demand for the vehicle, likely based on M235 sales, which would seem to be a reasonable statistical data point, but it turns out people are cross-shopping the M2 against a much wider array of vehicles, and what the M235 almost got right the M2 gets very right.

You have to also consider the number of different models currently in production. There isn't a ton of tooling space and given the assumption that M2 buyers would be only a percentage of M235i potential buyers, sticking it at Leipzig seems like a reasonable logistical choice to limit factory spanning of 2er production. Once you factor that in, it additionally seems pretty logical to keep options down to maximize the setup you already have as well as not disturb existing production flow.

I honestly think top brass said, "Hey, this is a neat little car we made, but it is kinda out of the price range of 2er buyers, and if you're going to pony up, most people are probably going to want the M3/4. We do want to sell it, our engineers dig it, but lets not go crazy because we already don't sell that many M235s." And then they went full court press with the media, probably thinking that they had better sell what few cars they do make. Turns out the car has the surprise magic sauce, everyone loves it, and here we are. Dunno how much room they have to pivot on the logistical choice, so we'll see. But for year 1, I think that's where we're at.

Just my crazy opinion, of course.
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      05-07-2016, 03:06 AM   #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nishmaster2k View Post
I'm not convinced the M2 is a loss leader or a halo car engineered to cross-sell. I truly do think they critically misjudged the demand for the vehicle, likely based on M235 sales, which would seem to be a reasonable statistical data point, but it turns out people are cross-shopping the M2 against a much wider array of vehicles, and what the M235 almost got right the M2 gets very right.

You have to also consider the number of different models currently in production. There isn't a ton of tooling space and given the assumption that M2 buyers would be only a percentage of M235i potential buyers, sticking it at Leipzig seems like a reasonable logistical choice to limit factory spanning of 2er production. Once you factor that in, it additionally seems pretty logical to keep options down to maximize the setup you already have as well as not disturb existing production flow.

I honestly think top brass said, "Hey, this is a neat little car we made, but it is kinda out of the price range of 2er buyers, and if you're going to pony up, most people are probably going to want the M3/4. We do want to sell it, our engineers dig it, but lets not go crazy because we already don't sell that many M235s." And then they went full court press with the media, probably thinking that they had better sell what few cars they do make. Turns out the car has the surprise magic sauce, everyone loves it, and here we are. Dunno how much room they have to pivot on the logistical choice, so we'll see. But for year 1, I think that's where we're at.

Just my crazy opinion, of course.
I agree with the halo camp. How could they misjudge the demand after the success of the 1M and considering the M2 and M235i cost about the same. Check this out...

I just built an AW M235i to match my fully loaded M2 and it came out to $52,728. My M2 was just over $56,800. So, a $4k difference in price.
Or an AW M235i with enough options to match a base AW M2?
M235i = $50,270 M2 = $52,695 $2400 difference

I would say the prices are very close even with the M235i missing the following items.

A real LSD, Standard 19" forged wheels(1200 option on the M3/4), M3/4 suspension, Engine upgrades, quad exhaust, M3/4 brakes, carbon fiber interior pkg, and wide body with more aggressive front and rear. Am I missing anything?

On top of that, think about the extra production cost for the M2(tooling changes, removing from assembly line, etc...

As you can see by the price difference and what would need to be added to the M235i, the M2 is no where near a money making machine at least compared to the M235i. In fact, if it was readily available, I think it makes the M235i coupe obsolete leaving only the need for the AWD and vert varieties. But, if the M2 made so much money why wouldn't they also ditch the vert for an M2 vert?
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      05-07-2016, 07:11 AM   #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush
Quote:
Originally Posted by nishmaster2k View Post
I'm not convinced the M2 is a loss leader or a halo car engineered to cross-sell. I truly do think they critically misjudged the demand for the vehicle, likely based on M235 sales, which would seem to be a reasonable statistical data point, but it turns out people are cross-shopping the M2 against a much wider array of vehicles, and what the M235 almost got right the M2 gets very right.

You have to also consider the number of different models currently in production. There isn't a ton of tooling space and given the assumption that M2 buyers would be only a percentage of M235i potential buyers, sticking it at Leipzig seems like a reasonable logistical choice to limit factory spanning of 2er production. Once you factor that in, it additionally seems pretty logical to keep options down to maximize the setup you already have as well as not disturb existing production flow.

I honestly think top brass said, "Hey, this is a neat little car we made, but it is kinda out of the price range of 2er buyers, and if you're going to pony up, most people are probably going to want the M3/4. We do want to sell it, our engineers dig it, but lets not go crazy because we already don't sell that many M235s." And then they went full court press with the media, probably thinking that they had better sell what few cars they do make. Turns out the car has the surprise magic sauce, everyone loves it, and here we are. Dunno how much room they have to pivot on the logistical choice, so we'll see. But for year 1, I think that's where we're at.

Just my crazy opinion, of course.
I agree with the halo camp. How could they misjudge the demand after the success of the 1M and considering the M2 and M235i cost about the same. Check this out...

I just built an AW M235i to match my fully loaded M2 and it came out to $52,728. My M2 was just over $56,800. So, a $4k difference in price.
Or an AW M235i with enough options to match a base AW M2?
M235i = $50,270 M2 = $52,695 $2400 difference

I would say the prices are very close even with the M235i missing the following items.

A real LSD, Standard 19" forged wheels(1200 option on the M3/4), M3/4 suspension, Engine upgrades, quad exhaust, M3/4 brakes, carbon fiber interior pkg, and wide body with more aggressive front and rear. Am I missing anything?

On top of that, think about the extra production cost for the M2(tooling changes, removing from assembly line, etc...

As you can see by the price difference and what would need to be added to the M235i, the M2 is no where near a money making machine at least compared to the M235i. In fact, if it was readily available, I think it makes the M235i coupe obsolete leaving only the need for the AWD and vert varieties. But, if the M2 made so much money why wouldn't they also ditch the vert for an M2 vert?
Aside from the price, I am going to bet that the convertible chassis bracing and supports that are on the 2 series may have been interfered with when using the grafted over M4 suspension. To redesign all these items for a low production convertible probably was too much.

As it is right now , it's pretty clear they were unprepared/didn't plan on selling a lot of M2 and certainly any convertibles would reduce the ability to build m2 anyway.
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      05-07-2016, 12:24 PM   #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush
Quote:
Originally Posted by nishmaster2k View Post
I'm not convinced the M2 is a loss leader or a halo car engineered to cross-sell. I truly do think they critically misjudged the demand for the vehicle, likely based on M235 sales, which would seem to be a reasonable statistical data point, but it turns out people are cross-shopping the M2 against a much wider array of vehicles, and what the M235 almost got right the M2 gets very right.

You have to also consider the number of different models currently in production. There isn't a ton of tooling space and given the assumption that M2 buyers would be only a percentage of M235i potential buyers, sticking it at Leipzig seems like a reasonable logistical choice to limit factory spanning of 2er production. Once you factor that in, it additionally seems pretty logical to keep options down to maximize the setup you already have as well as not disturb existing production flow.

I honestly think top brass said, "Hey, this is a neat little car we made, but it is kinda out of the price range of 2er buyers, and if you're going to pony up, most people are probably going to want the M3/4. We do want to sell it, our engineers dig it, but lets not go crazy because we already don't sell that many M235s." And then they went full court press with the media, probably thinking that they had better sell what few cars they do make. Turns out the car has the surprise magic sauce, everyone loves it, and here we are. Dunno how much room they have to pivot on the logistical choice, so we'll see. But for year 1, I think that's where we're at.

Just my crazy opinion, of course.
I agree with the halo camp. How could they misjudge the demand after the success of the 1M and considering the M2 and M235i cost about the same. Check this out...

I just built an AW M235i to match my fully loaded M2 and it came out to $52,728. My M2 was just over $56,800. So, a $4k difference in price.
Or an AW M235i with enough options to match a base AW M2?
M235i = $50,270 M2 = $52,695 $2400 difference

I would say the prices are very close even with the M235i missing the following items.

A real LSD, Standard 19" forged wheels(1200 option on the M3/4), M3/4 suspension, Engine upgrades, quad exhaust, M3/4 brakes, carbon fiber interior pkg, and wide body with more aggressive front and rear. Am I missing anything?

On top of that, think about the extra production cost for the M2(tooling changes, removing from assembly line, etc...

As you can see by the price difference and what would need to be added to the M235i, the M2 is no where near a money making machine at least compared to the M235i. In fact, if it was readily available, I think it makes the M235i coupe obsolete leaving only the need for the AWD and vert varieties. But, if the M2 made so much money why wouldn't they also ditch the vert for an M2 vert?
Aside from the price, I am going to bet that the convertible chassis bracing and supports that are on the 2 series may have been interfered with when using the grafted over M4 suspension. To redesign all these items for a low production convertible probably was too much.

As it is right now , it's pretty clear they were unprepared/didn't plan on selling a lot of M2 and certainly any convertibles would reduce the ability to build m2 anyway.
I would disagree that BMW didn't know what the demand would be. Everyone else on the planet knew this would be a great car and sell fast.
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      05-07-2016, 02:08 PM   #610
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I would disagree that BMW didn't know what the demand would be. Everyone else on the planet knew this would be a great car and sell fast.
Agreed. BMW engineers knew what they had and knew the pent up demand for a 1M successor. By limiting production they make it more desirable. This is not a car for the masses, it is a true enthusiasts car. Those who truly want one will wait.
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      05-07-2016, 02:12 PM   #611
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I would disagree that BMW didn't know what the demand would be. Everyone else on the planet knew this would be a great car and sell fast.
+1. If BMW didn't anticipate the demand, their market research team should be fired, as either they're incompetent or didn't do their job.
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      05-08-2016, 10:55 AM   #612
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BMW did not get the demand wrong. They knew what they were doing. They are going to build xx amount and they are sticking to their business plan. Plant is at max capacity and thats it.
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