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      01-22-2017, 08:39 PM   #1
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Ethanol in premium pump gas

The more I mod my car, the more I think about quality fuel. I've been using Exxon 93 since the first fill-up. It's close by and from my understanding, is a good product. It does contain 10% ethanol though. Is there a downside to this? Will my car benefit any more from gas with zero ethanol? If so, where can it be purchased ?
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      01-22-2017, 09:24 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
The more I mod my car, the more I think about quality fuel. I've been using Exxon 93 since the first fill-up. It's close by and from my understanding, is a good product. It does contain 10% ethanol though. Is there a downside to this? Will my car benefit any more from gas with zero ethanol? If so, where can it be purchased ?
I think you want to use the 10% stuff within 90 days or so, which should not be a problem. The alcohol in the 10% can absorb moisture, but new cars should be designed to deal with this. If the gas is old it may effect the octane, I think so that could be an issue with your mods.

You could run a tank by tank comparison to see if you get better mileage with the straight gas and factor in the cost, you can google and see if there is a straight gas dealer near you, it might not be worth it if its far.
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      01-22-2017, 10:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
The more I mod my car, the more I think about quality fuel. I've been using Exxon 93 since the first fill-up. It's close by and from my understanding, is a good product. It does contain 10% ethanol though. Is there a downside to this? Will my car benefit any more from gas with zero ethanol? If so, where can it be purchased ?
I haven't seen gas without 10% ethanol in YEARS.
Ethanol isn't bad as such. In fact, you could mix some E85 (if you can find a station that sells it) with 93 octane and it will give you an effective higher octane and slightly less miles per gallon. and higher octane allows more boost

Just be sure your fuel system can handle it. I think with modern BMWs we would be ok with about 3 gallons of E85 with every full tank of 93 (in our 13 gallon tank).

There are some ethanol calculators out there which can help you see how much mixing of E85 you could do and what your new effective octane rating would be.
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      01-23-2017, 02:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceeto View Post
I haven't seen gas without 10% ethanol in YEARS.
Ethanol isn't bad as such. In fact, you could mix some E85 (if you can find a station that sells it) with 93 octane and it will give you an effective higher octane and slightly less miles per gallon. and higher octane allows more boost

Just be sure your fuel system can handle it. I think with modern BMWs we would be ok with about 3 gallons of E85 with every full tank of 93 (in our 13 gallon tank).

There are some ethanol calculators out there which can help you see how much mixing of E85 you could do and what your new effective octane rating would be.
Do not mix E85 in a stock car. If you have a tune that can use it, then OK.
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      01-23-2017, 04:05 PM   #5
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If you have a Shell gas station in your area, you can sign up on their web site for a discount card.
http://www.shell.us/motorist/shell-f...-gasoline.html
https://www.bmwcca.org/news/shell-v-...r-club-america
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      01-23-2017, 05:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
The more I mod my car, the more I think about quality fuel. I've been using Exxon 93 since the first fill-up. It's close by and from my understanding, is a good product. It does contain 10% ethanol though. Is there a downside to this? Will my car benefit any more from gas with zero ethanol? If so, where can it be purchased ?
I think you want to use the 10% stuff within 90 days or so, which should not be a problem. The alcohol in the 10% can absorb moisture, but new cars should be designed to deal with this. If the gas is old it may effect the octane, I think so that could be an issue with your mods.

You could run a tank by tank comparison to see if you get better mileage with the straight gas and factor in the cost, you can google and see if there is a straight gas dealer near you, it might not be worth it if its far.
The m2 on an e30 blend on the stock tune made close to 360whp and alot more torque. Just don't go crazy with it as our HPFP is weak.

That's a back to back dyno on 93. 93 made 320-330whp

30whp bump just from octane.
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      01-23-2017, 06:00 PM   #7
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Can't even get e85 by me anymore. They all became diesel pumps.
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      01-23-2017, 08:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceeto View Post
I haven't seen gas without 10% ethanol in YEARS.
Ethanol isn't bad as such. In fact, you could mix some E85 (if you can find a station that sells it) with 93 octane and it will give you an effective higher octane and slightly less miles per gallon. and higher octane allows more boost

Just be sure your fuel system can handle it. I think with modern BMWs we would be ok with about 3 gallons of E85 with every full tank of 93 (in our 13 gallon tank).

There are some ethanol calculators out there which can help you see how much mixing of E85 you could do and what your new effective octane rating would be.
3 gallons of E85 (105 oct) with 10 gallons of 93 (10% ethanol) would be about E27 (96 oct). Think it's safe for our stock fuel system?
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      01-23-2017, 08:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David1 View Post
Do not mix E85 in a stock car. If you have a tune that can use it, then OK.
Not even a couple of gallons?
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      01-23-2017, 11:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by David1 View Post
Do not mix E85 in a stock car. If you have a tune that can use it, then OK.
Not even a couple of gallons?
Your fine mixing it. The fuel system itself is safe. Seals and such, it's when you up the boost when an E mixture starts to tax your HPFP. That's why we have port injection options in the aftermarket.

Stock boost e20-e30 is fine. So no more than 2-3.3 gallons, at least that's what I experienced

I only started to run into HPFP crashes in 4th gear 6k and up but I was running 4psi over stock. It was fine for the stock boost map.

Don't worry about it! E85 is great unless the car will be sitting for a long time.
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      01-24-2017, 08:28 PM   #11
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MPG

Here in Alabama we can get 93 Octane Pure Gas -- which I run in all my small engines and have run in my N54 with some improvement in MGP but not sure if I could really notice any performance gain.
.
The ethanol does attract water and is known to harm the Piezo injector crystals in the N54. On my N55 similar to your M2 N55 variant - the Bosh injectors are used due to the crappy fuel quality we have in America.
.
So, you could gain MPGs but the extra cost does not equal the MPGs gained.
.
.
Accordingly, pure gas in a car that will be sitting for long periods of time should use pure gas as well as small engines like a leaf blower where the corrosive nature of ethanol just kills the carburetor.
.
However, I am a big proponent of high tier gas with quality detergent . Shell & Chevron.

Cheers.
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      01-28-2017, 03:16 PM   #12
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If you want to find a station that carries gas with no ethanol:

http://www.pure-gas.org/

Last edited by CaptChaos; 02-08-2017 at 01:02 AM.
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      02-05-2017, 08:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashburyn54 View Post
Your fine mixing it. The fuel system itself is safe. Seals and such, it's when you up the boost when an E mixture starts to tax your HPFP. That's why we have port injection options in the aftermarket.

Stock boost e20-e30 is fine. So no more than 2-3.3 gallons, at least that's what I experienced

I only started to run into HPFP crashes in 4th gear 6k and up but I was running 4psi over stock. It was fine for the stock boost map.

Don't worry about it! E85 is great unless the car will be sitting for a long time.
I'm in California, we have terrible 91!

If I mixed 2 gallons of E85 with 11 gallons of 91 it gives me about 93.2 octane and E21.5 Is that safe to do and the car won't run lean?

What if I wanted to run a map that was designed for 93 octane, would that work safely by using E85 as an "octane booster", since it's such a minimal amount would the car be able to compensate for it? Since E85 has lower energy than gas, it requires higher fueling, without being properly tuned, you'd run lean. But it's only 2 gallons so I'm not sure, along with the 10% of ethanol already in 91 gas in California.

Thanks!
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      02-05-2017, 09:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbavar2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashburyn54 View Post
Your fine mixing it. The fuel system itself is safe. Seals and such, it's when you up the boost when an E mixture starts to tax your HPFP. That's why we have port injection options in the aftermarket.

Stock boost e20-e30 is fine. So no more than 2-3.3 gallons, at least that's what I experienced

I only started to run into HPFP crashes in 4th gear 6k and up but I was running 4psi over stock. It was fine for the stock boost map.

Don't worry about it! E85 is great unless the car will be sitting for a long time.
I'm in California, we have terrible 91!

If I mixed 2 gallons of E85 with 11 gallons of 91 it gives me about 93.2 octane and E21.5 Is that safe to do and the car won't run lean?

What if I wanted to run a map that was designed for 93 octane, would that work safely by using E85 as an "octane booster", since it's such a minimal amount would the car be able to compensate for it? Since E85 has lower energy than gas, it requires higher fueling, without being properly tuned, you'd run lean. But it's only 2 gallons so I'm not sure, along with the 10% of ethanol already in 91 gas in California.

Thanks!
You won't run lean on that low of a mix. Your DME will compensate and will hit your target AFR's. The benefit is the extra octane will create a cooler burn and you'll hit your peak timing vs pulling timing.

The fueling problems only begin when your HPFP can't handle the e85 supply. It still targets your target DME AFR's until it crashes. E20-e30 on stock boost won't be a problem.

To take full advantage of E85 you would actually want a leaner tune.
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      02-06-2017, 10:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashburyn54 View Post
You won't run lean on that low of a mix. Your DME will compensate and will hit your target AFR's. The benefit is the extra octane will create a cooler burn and you'll hit your peak timing vs pulling timing.

The fueling problems only begin when your HPFP can't handle the e85 supply. It still targets your target DME AFR's until it crashes. E20-e30 on stock boost won't be a problem.

To take full advantage of E85 you would actually want a leaner tune.
Thanks! When you had HPFP problems, how much E85 were you running? And what type of tune were you on?

That's crazy that the DME can compensate for this.

I think I'd like to continue to use this 2 gallon blend just to up the octane to 93, but I'd also like to be tuned on this blend eventually. With a tune usually you have more timing and what not, would it still be safe to use 2 gallons of E85 with a 93 octane tune (91/E85 blend in tank)? No risk to the HPFP?

Thanks!
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      02-06-2017, 01:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbavar2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashburyn54 View Post
You won't run lean on that low of a mix. Your DME will compensate and will hit your target AFR's. The benefit is the extra octane will create a cooler burn and you'll hit your peak timing vs pulling timing.

The fueling problems only begin when your HPFP can't handle the e85 supply. It still targets your target DME AFR's until it crashes. E20-e30 on stock boost won't be a problem.

To take full advantage of E85 you would actually want a leaner tune.
Thanks! When you had HPFP problems, how much E85 were you running? And what type of tune were you on?

That's crazy that the DME can compensate for this.

I think I'd like to continue to use this 2 gallon blend just to up the octane to 93, but I'd also like to be tuned on this blend eventually. With a tune usually you have more timing and what not, would it still be safe to use 2 gallons of E85 with a 93 octane tune (91/E85 blend in tank)? No risk to the HPFP?

Thanks!
When you start pushing your boost up is when I started seeing problems with the HPFP. That being said a tune probably won't run as rich of a target like JB4 on a stock tune. Stock boost levels were fine, car ran great.

So theoretically it could work and it's very plausible, it will have to be just right. Map 1 is an additive map that targets 4psi. Map 2 is the same but targets 6psi over stock. That's around 20-21psi In overboost so we need that E30 blend for knock.

I would see crashes in 4th gear around 7k on the e30 blend in map 1 and around 5.5-6k on map2. Pulled like a train though.

I'm sure PTF could work out a custom e30 map for you. That's our only way short of port injection right now, DME tunes that alter fuel scalers
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      02-06-2017, 01:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashburyn54 View Post
When you start pushing your boost up is when I started seeing problems with the HPFP. That being said a tune probably won't run as rich of a target like JB4 on a stock tune. Stock boost levels were fine, car ran great.

So theoretically it could work and it's very plausible, it will have to be just right. Map 1 is an additive map that targets 4psi. Map 2 is the same but targets 6psi over stock. That's around 20-21psi In overboost so we need that E30 blend for knock.

I would see crashes in 4th gear around 7k on the e30 blend in map 1 and around 5.5-6k on map2. Pulled like a train though.

I'm sure PTF could work out a custom e30 map for you. That's our only way short of port injection right now, DME tunes that alter fuel scalers
Thanks! This helps out a lot. By crashes, what do you mean? Looks like I gotta get bootmod3 one day haha!
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      02-12-2017, 05:39 AM   #18
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+1 on everything ashburyn54 mentioned
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      02-16-2017, 11:02 PM   #19
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What do you guys think of BOOSTane?
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      02-17-2017, 01:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbavar2 View Post
What do you guys think of BOOSTane?
E85 daily
Boostane on the go if no E stations
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      02-17-2017, 02:05 AM   #21
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E85 daily
Boostane on the go if no E stations
Would it be cool to use boostane or race gas concentrate all the time? Just to get to 93 octane.
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      04-21-2017, 12:31 AM   #22
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The difference in performance between 91 and 93 octane hardly seems worth the extra cost and effort involved. Cali gas sucks, sorry.

It's been mentioned above, but there's generally no real reason to start blending E85 with 91/93 unless you have a car that's been tuned/mapped to take advantage of it and run higher boost because of the effective higher octane.
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