[m20e3087]

I have narrowed it down to these two coil-overs, and got positive feedback on both systems from members and 3rd party retailers who sales them. Personally I don't know anyone running any of these on their M cars in my area, as majority runs KW or MP or just HAS.

Also for both systems it requires service after certain number of miles, which isn't a big deal to me. Warranty wise same as well, and build quality on both are solid.

Wanted to get some opinions who are running both systems and what made you choose one over the other.

[Montaver]

I had Ohlins R&T on my E90 M3 so I am very familiar with the damping. They have that magical 'tied down' feeling without being crashy and absorb heavy impacts in one damper stroke. The E9x application had significantly softer springs (350/700) than the F87 version (515/1080), the stiffer springs should make for a nice track improvement.

I have a set of R&T with GC plates and bimmerworld monoballs going onto my M2C this coming week. Once I have some street/ track time I will write a review, but can post initial impressions. AST weren't really a consideration for me honestly, it was between Ohlins, 3-way KW Clubsports, and MCS. Add Bilstein Clubsports to that list at $4k, if they weren't vapourware I probably would of gone for them. I nearly went for MCS but $5k for singles felt rich, I would really want doubles but they were $6k. There is a big gap betweent the lower tier kits (M performance, Bilstein B16's, KW V3) and the top end (JRZ, Moton, MCS etc.). There is very little in the mid range except Ohlins available that I would consider 'battle tested'.

[m20e3087]

Originally Posted by Montaver

I had Ohlins R&T on my E90 M3 so I am very familiar with the damping. They have that magical 'tied down' feeling without being crashy and absorb heavy impacts in one damper stroke. The E9x application had significantly softer springs (350/700) than the F87 version (515/1080), the stiffer springs should make for a nice track improvement.

I have a set of R&T with GC plates and bimmerworld monoballs going onto my M2C this coming week. Once I have some street/ track time I will write a review, but can post initial impressions. AST weren't really a consideration for me honestly, it was between Ohlins, 3-way KW Clubsports, and MCS. Add Bilstein Clubsports to that list at $4k, if they weren't vapourware I probably would of gone for them. I nearly went for MCS but $5k for singles felt rich, I would really want doubles but they were $6k. There is a big gap betweent the lower tier kits (M performance, Bilstein B16's, KW V3) and the top end (JRZ, Moton, MCS etc.). There is very little in the mid range except Ohlins available that I would consider 'battle tested'.

Originally Posted by Montaver

I had Ohlins R&T on my E90 M3 so I am very familiar with the damping. They have that magical 'tied down' feeling without being crashy and absorb heavy impacts in one damper stroke. The E9x application had significantly softer springs (350/700) than the F87 version (515/1080), the stiffer springs should make for a nice track improvement.

I have a set of R&T with GC plates and bimmerworld monoballs going onto my M2C this coming week. Once I have some street/ track time I will write a review, but can post initial impressions. AST weren't really a consideration for me honestly, it was between Ohlins, 3-way KW Clubsports, and MCS. Add Bilstein Clubsports to that list at $4k, if they weren't vapourware I probably would of gone for them. I nearly went for MCS but $5k for singles felt rich, I would really want doubles but they were $6k. There is a big gap betweent the lower tier kits (M performance, Bilstein B16's, KW V3) and the top end (JRZ, Moton, MCS etc.). There is very little in the mid range except Ohlins available that I would consider 'battle tested'.

Thanks man. That's the type of answer I was looking for. Please let us know once you put some miles on it.

[MR RIZK]

If buying the Ohlins R&T I suggest reading this thread in its entirety before purchasing.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1425894

Also the motons appear to be on sale. Bit more than the AST 5100 but a good saving.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...bo-14-present/

PS: Don't get me wrong I have run DFV's in other cars and they were awesome. Just more of an FYI so u can make an educated choice.

[PLF69]

If you want Ohlins, I suggest buying from 3DM Motorsports, they are aware of the bushing problem and also sell a kit with slightly lower rear springs with the perfectly dialed in revalved shocks.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by PLF69

If you want Ohlins, I suggest buying from 3DM Motorsports, they are aware of the bushing problem and also sell a kit with slightly lower rear springs with the perfectly dialed in revalved shocks.

Agreed, if you plan to lower the rear rates a re-valve is necessary. I spoke to Barry at 3DM and learned a lot, great guy.

Effectively the rear dampers were initially valved for 1300 springs (even then more on the aggressive side) on the original M3/M4 kits. There were a lot of complaints about ride quality so when they released the M2 kits they used a different rear shock body but retained the original valving. I believe the original kits were BMS MR40, the current kits are BMU MR41 which covers all the F8x platform. The lower springs are within the valving range for the rears at 1080 (normally 15-20% is the max spring rate change you would want to make for given valving) so Ohlins never changed them. That's why just putting softer spring on the rear without changing the dampers valving may not necessarily help as in standard form they will be very over damped. Barry can do you a kit with re-valved rears at no additional cost. FWIW I stuck with Ohlins standard kit, as I got them during the memorial day sales and I track my car fairly regularly so I don't mind stiffer springs. I can always have them re-valved if they don't feel good, but I suspect they will be perfect as is.

Ohlins identified the bushing issue and rectified it on all kits so that shouldn't be a problem.

[m20e3087]

Originally Posted by PLF69

If you want Ohlins, I suggest buying from 3DM Motorsports, they are aware of the bushing problem and also sell a kit with slightly lower rear springs with the perfectly dialed in revalved shocks.

That was my original plan to buy it from them if I am going with Ohlins. Spoke to guys at 3DM and yes they can customize per my needs.

[eatingpizzainthef87rules]

Not sure why you'd want lower rear spring rates - I have the stiffer rear rates and the car is far softer than stock at 20 clicks.

[widetyres]

m20e3087 I have the AST5100 installed on my car. So far, I have only driven them on the street - they are significantly better than stock in every way; turn in is sharper and flatter, they are more comfortable, grip is increased, rear is much more settled, in-corner balance is incredible, steering feel slightly improved.

I am certain that you would be happy with either kit TBH. I think the answer to your dilemma is perhaps how you will use them the most. The Ohlins have linear front springs, whereas the AST5100 use progressive fronts springs (with linear rears). Turn-in will always be a little sharper with stiff linear springs, but there is a compromise in terms of comfort; progressive will be more comfortable.

The AST5100 are great for the street and are perhaps slightly more focused in that direction in terms of street vs track. They can be set actually quite soft if you want (much softer than I would ever want TBH), I am currently running Front:4 / Rear:5 clicks from full hard (11 clicks available), and the balance between handling and comfort is pretty amazing on the UK’s bumpy roads.

I will only use the car on track occasionally (E.g. 1-2 days per year), so the AST suit how I use the car, and they can be stiffened up more when I go there. However, if I was doing alot more track work, then I would be either after the Ohlins (probably with slightly softer springs/valving than standard), or one of the higher level AST sets (which come with linear springs).

You are bang on the money though shortlisting these two brands – they are both high quality and the fact that they can be adjusted so quickly is very trick (literally just a few mins to adjust all 4 corners, which is much better than other kits (E.g. KW and MSS) that have adjusters in awkward locations).

Hope that helps.
WT

[3t3p]

WT daft question but does it still feel like an M2? Is there too much of a good thing?

Try to un-man-maths out of the idea of upgrading the suspension lol.

The car is really fun and settled after CF brace retrofit and think PS4S will further improve that. I like that it keeps you on your toes. Is the AST so good that it's like a magic carpet ride on the B roads? Clearly not as you enjoy it!

[CoffeeLife]

Had Ohlins on my 18' but getting ASTs on my 21'. My current shop says Ill enjoy the AST setup more, so we will see if thats true.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

WT daft question but does it still feel like an M2? Is there too much of a good thing?

Try to un-man-maths out of the idea of upgrading the suspension lol.

The car is really fun and settled after CF brace retrofit and think PS4S will further improve that. I like that it keeps you on your toes. Is the AST so good that it's like a magic carpet ride on the B roads? Clearly not as you enjoy it!

Hey,

Great to hear that your car is good after the brace - that is one of my next focus points.

For me, the front far corner on turn in would always be dipping a little on the stock suspension, which I found annoying and took away a bit of turn in confidence and feel about what was going on. With the new suspension, this is not an issue.

In every other way though, I was actually fine with the stock suspenion and did wonder the same as you - would it ruin the experience. For me, the AST has proved to be better than stock in almost every way. Steering feel is up a bit, turn in is good, and they can be adjusted so to a balance point between ultimate road holding and comfort that you want.

There is a bit more NVH.

Ability to corner is probably +20mph over stock, so yes, you do need to be going faster round the bends to get the same buzz, but it feels great when you do!

Have a serious think about what you want your car to feel like before putting on PS4S!!!!! They are not the best tyre for the M2 IMO.
I had all 4 corners done (previously on PSS), and they are massively more comfortable and the grip is amazing, but they will take away all your steering feel. The car's turn-in, literally turns to mush. Given that you were able to feel the benefit of the bracing you have done, I would not recommend them for you.
Fortunately for me (oddly) some builders punctured the fronts and I switched to the Continental SC6 at their cost. I have been a Michelin man for like two decades, so this was a big step for me (I had not liked previous Continentals). However, I believe out of the new generation tyres they are better. Grip is excellent (wet or dry) and steering feel and resistance to side wall flex is good. The ultimate steering feel is not quite as good as PSS, but they are still decent (and a million times better than PS4S). My only gripe is that they don't "look" as good as Michelins.

I would stick to PSS for ultimate feel, if the grip level they offer is good enough for you. If you need more grip (e.g. highly tuned), then go for the SC6.

[SEAT TIME RULES]

I've brought this point up on other Coilover threads.

Most of you aren't thinking about TCO (total cost of ownership)

I've run Koni's, AST's, Ohlin's, JRZ's & a set of Motons on various cars.

I've also gotten feedback from my fellow track drivers and instructors on KW's, MCS, Penske's, Bilsteins. MPS, and a few other brands...

The only shocks I've run that last are Koni's & Ohlins.

Every other brand I've tried or know of has required rebuilds in the 15-25K range. Pulling them, shipping and revalving is $2K or more. My JRZ"s on my ND Miata were rebuilt at 20K with both fronts leaking. I'm now at 45K and they need to be pulled a 2nd time. The AST's 5200's I ran had to be pulled off 2x's in less than 20K then I sold them. The Motons also were quickly pulled and sold.

The Ohlins I ran with 1000 lb springs on my EVO never were pulled in 85K and over 50 track days. My Koni's on 2 different M cars were revalved once in 125K. I have no idea how many track and SOLO days I had on them.

Are those other shocks faster??? Yup....if you need to chase a few tenths they are. Are they a better quality ride, thats all in the eye of the owner. I certainly think so.

All my cars were street driven and tracked/Auto X'd.

YMMV,
HAZMAT

[Montaver]

After having the Ohlins on my car for a few days I would say they should be called 'Ohlins Track & Road' in this application. The high spring rates mean they don't breathe with the road in the same way my e9x Ohlins did which is the most disappointing thing for me. I have a goods tolerance for high spring rates but these are not well judged for street driving IMO. I'm running them at 17 clicks and they sometimes exhibit that irritating high frequency bounce you get from being over sprung, which really prevents the dampers showing their full potential.

The flip side is turn-in is razor sharp and the grip is prodigious, and the feeling of high quality Ohlins damping is there. It almost feels like moving from a street Michelin (PS4S, SS) to a sticky 200TW tire like RE-71R. There is a straight with a significant bump where at full throttle on stock suspension the rear would hop and lose traction momentarily, the Ohlins just sail right through it with no loss of traction. The car feels direct, ultra solid and planted.

I do 10-15 track days per year so for me I think they will work, but for the street you really don't feel the benefits of stiffer rates but get all the downsides. If you are pure street driving my advice would be get a custom kit with revalved dampers from 3DM and go with 450/900 or 400/800.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by Montaver

I do 10-15 track days per year so for me I think they will work, but for the street you really don't feel the benefits of stiffer rates but get all the downsides. If you are pure street driving my advice would be get a custom kit with revalved dampers from 3DM and go with 450/900 or 400/800.

This is pretty much my situation also but I do have the 400/800 springs and I suffer from overdamped dampers. I think the Ohlins spec kit already does, Barry told me Ohlins probably did not even revalve from the F80/82 original kit that have 230nm rear springs..

Having knowned all this I would of jumped on this kit

https://3dmmotorsport.com/collection...31320212144233


I will probably send them my shocks soon (at least the rears) and report back on the difference it makes with the springs I have.


PS: I run them at 26 on all corners to help bare with our crappy roads around here, tried them as low as 4 on track and it's pretty effective, it's great you can adjust to a clean or broken track environment.

[3t3p]

Originally Posted by widetyres

Hey,

Great to hear that your car is good after the brace - that is one of my next focus points.

For me, the front far corner on turn in would always be dipping a little on the stock suspension, which I found annoying and took away a bit of turn in confidence and feel about what was going on. With the new suspension, this is not an issue.

In every other way though, I was actually fine with the stock suspenion and did wonder the same as you - would it ruin the experience. For me, the AST has proved to be better than stock in almost every way. Steering feel is up a bit, turn in is good, and they can be adjusted so to a balance point between ultimate road holding and comfort that you want.

There is a bit more NVH.

Ability to corner is probably +20mph over stock, so yes, you do need to be going faster round the bends to get the same buzz, but it feels great when you do!

Have a serious think about what you want your car to feel like before putting on PS4S!!!!! They are not the best tyre for the M2 IMO.
I had all 4 corners done (previously on PSS), and they are massively more comfortable and the grip is amazing, but they will take away all your steering feel. The car's turn-in, literally turns to mush. Given that you were able to feel the benefit of the bracing you have done, I would not recommend them for you.
Fortunately for me (oddly) some builders punctured the fronts and I switched to the Continental SC6 at their cost. I have been a Michelin man for like two decades, so this was a big step for me (I had not liked previous Continentals). However, I believe out of the new generation tyres they are better. Grip is excellent (wet or dry) and steering feel and resistance to side wall flex is good. The ultimate steering feel is not quite as good as PSS, but they are still decent (and a million times better than PS4S). My only gripe is that they don't "look" as good as Michelins.

I would stick to PSS for ultimate feel, if the grip level they offer is good enough for you. If you need more grip (e.g. highly tuned), then go for the SC6.

Def get the brace done you'll love it and eschew the virtues like me on here. In fact stop any and all planned mods and do it next!

I've heard others say similar things about the PS4S, I have used them on a fwd car before and they were amazing in that application with no downsides. I can imagine a situation with the M2 where they are worse in feel and at the limit.

The PSS are total magic at the limit and let me squirm the back tyres, I don't mind that I could go faster technically. I got the M2 as it's NOT a quattro/haldex put power down 100% of the time then understeer into the next bend.

I'm keeping the car whatever, so eventually I can try different tyres though my mileage is very low and with modern wear rates this will take a long time!

I'm learning to like/love stock attributes of the car and don't want to mess it up. That's why I'm following the MSS thread, also far cheaper than the likes of AST gear!

That sort of price if it's a mistake I can live with that investment loss.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

Def get the brace done you'll love it and eschew the virtues like me on here. In fact stop any and all planned mods and do it next!

I've heard others say similar things about the PS4S, I have used them on a fwd car before and they were amazing in that application with no downsides. I can imagine a situation with the M2 where they are worse in feel and at the limit.

The PSS are total magic at the limit and let me squirm the back tyres, I don't mind that I could go faster technically. I got the M2 as it's NOT a quattro/haldex put power down 100% of the time then understeer into the next bend.

I'm keeping the car whatever, so eventually I can try different tyres though my mileage is very low and with modern wear rates this will take a long time!

I'm learning to like/love stock attributes of the car and don't want to mess it up. That's why I'm following the MSS thread, also far cheaper than the likes of AST gear!

That sort of price if it's a mistake I can live with that investment loss.

MSS are rebranded KW V3s with linear fronts springs I believe. KWs should last a while - I haven't had them myself, but have friends that have on other cars and they have been fit and forget (for years).

Re tires, if you like the PSS, I would honestly recommend sticking with them. I loved the PSS and was bitterly disappointed with their PS4S replacements.
I will very likely go back to them when the current set of tires need replacing. I will then also switch to the 98 BM3 stg2 map, so that the low down torque of the 91 stg2 map doesn't overload them and spin them up too much.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

I'm learning to like/love stock attributes of the car and don't want to mess it up. That's why I'm following the MSS thread, also far cheaper than the likes of AST gear!

That sort of price if it's a mistake I can live with that investment loss.

Did you see the price of the 3DM Ohlins posted above? If I was in the US and was looking to buy some coilovers, I would be all over them at that price! (-30%)

[krizze]

Originally Posted by m20e3087

I have narrowed it down to these two coil-overs, and got positive feedback on both systems from members and 3rd party retailers who sales them. Personally I don't know anyone running any of these on their M cars in my area, as majority runs KW or MP or just HAS.

Also for both systems it requires service after certain number of miles, which isn't a big deal to me. Warranty wise same as well, and build quality on both are solid.

Wanted to get some opinions who are running both systems and what made you choose one over the other.

I had the 5100, the shocks failed after 5000km I sent them back to be rebuilt then sold them I've had KW3 since and can't complain, I wanted ohlins but price point I decided to go for the KW3

[SEAT TIME RULES]

Originally Posted by krizze

I had the 5100, the shocks failed after 5000km I sent them back to be rebuilt then sold them I've had KW3 since and can't complain, I wanted ohlins but price point I decided to go for the KW3

My TC Kline Koni's with 400/700 lb springs include camber plates for $2990

[Saanen]

I dropped the spring rates by 10% (without re-valving) and went the next size up on my Michelin PS4S which brings the setup to close to stock stiffness on 20 clicks....and it is awesome on the track at 3 clicks.
Next: I bought the CF and aluminum braces and await a time with Nezil to install that setup.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES

The AST's 5200's I ran had to be pulled off 2x's in less than 20K then I sold them.

Originally Posted by krizze

I had the 5100, the shocks failed after 5000km I sent them back to be rebuilt then sold them I've had KW3 since and can't complain, I wanted ohlins but price point I decided to go for the KW3

You guys are scaring me shitless! I do 13K miles a year (as DD the car) - I'll be bankrupt on rebuilds!