BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > M2 vs... > M6 vs DCT. What should I go with?

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-14-2017, 10:37 PM   #45
arwin
Second Lieutenant
133
Rep
245
Posts

Drives: 2017 AW M2
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Edmonton, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for all the input everyone. Ive decided to stick with the manual transmission. Ive driven stick for a long time already so stop and go traffic isn't an issue. Besides, I don't travel during rush hour for the most part anyway. The wife can also drive stick as well so there's no issue in that either. I think what I would regret the most is if I got DCT and initially I liked it and then it got boring afterwards. With the mt I know what I'm getting into already. But I really appreciate all the replies.
Appreciate 6
Kid Eh569.50
Ian ///M491.00
Dave-A85.00
ewohar21.50
      05-14-2017, 11:37 PM   #46
seis-speed
#savethemanuals
seis-speed's Avatar
United_States
2426
Rep
1,967
Posts

Drives: 1M | GT3 | J392 | GRc
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: West Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by arwin View Post
Thanks for all the input everyone. Ive decided to stick with the manual transmission. Ive driven stick for a long time already so stop and go traffic isn't an issue. Besides, I don't travel during rush hour for the most part anyway. The wife can also drive stick as well so there's no issue in that either. I think what I would regret the most is if I got DCT and initially I liked it and then it got boring afterwards. With the mt I know what I'm getting into already. But I really appreciate all the replies.
Good move. No row - no go - for me!
Appreciate 1
      05-15-2017, 02:36 AM   #47
aerobat
Private First Class
aerobat's Avatar
Sweden
135
Rep
128
Posts

Drives: M Roadster
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Smile

Got mine beginning of april. Now I've done over 3000km in it.
I love it and I think DCT adds to fun, at least for me.
My 17-year old sons comment was:
"That punch when DCT is changing up is really the best" he said.
The punch in Sport+ is really nice. Especially when changing around 6000rpm.
This is my first automatic sports car (see my list of MT), so I have really tried some MT...

Just as a comment to the to the sometimes hard discussion MT vs DCT; I think that is a US thing. In Europe you just get what you like, it is not a religion to drive manual since everybody in Europe learnt to drive in manual.
To me, it would have been easier with an MT. It has been a learning curve to use the DCT in a good way. The main reason why it is a bit harder (at least for a old-time MT person like me) to know which gear you have when using DCT, when using MT you always know what gear you have.

I think M2 is all about fun, so at the end of the day it is all a matter of personal preference. Unless you have to be faster, then you have to get DCT.
__________________
Current: M Roadster Silver/Black (Fun car), BMW 330ti Compact (Trackday), Mercedes C220d AMG Estate (Everyday)
Previous: BMW M2 DCT M Performance Suspension/Stage2, Porsche 993 Carrera 2S, Porsche 993 Carrera 2, Porsche 964 Carrera 2 Cab,Mazda RX8, Porsche 930 Turbo, BMW M3 E36, BMW M3 E30, BMW M5 E34, BMW 325iM Coupe

Last edited by aerobat; 05-15-2017 at 02:42 AM..
Appreciate 3
Robin_NL8679.50
outcast90.50
ewohar21.50
      05-15-2017, 07:18 AM   #48
3Si
Second Lieutenant
3Si's Avatar
Canada
217
Rep
228
Posts

Drives: 16 M2, 16 Macan S, 08 Elise SC
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I'm not worried about car balance when I'm going to work. No seriously. On a 90deg turn from stop I typically shift into 2 nearly right away if it's these tight ratio 7 or 8sp auto. cars. That steering angle plus steering wheel paddles is ridiculous.
Short shift to 2nd, problem solved. I've had DSG and PDK all located on the steering wheel without any problems. With my MT cars, I rarely shift in the middle of a turn, guess I didn't want to make a habit of it and start doing that on the track.

Last edited by 3Si; 05-15-2017 at 07:27 AM..
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2017, 08:25 AM   #49
pruettfan
Brigadier General
1622
Rep
3,402
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2, LBB, DCT, Exec
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ

iTrader: (0)

This is pretty much the worse question to ask here. Manual guys will go on and on about it being the only transmission worth considering yada yada. The reality is nobody here can intelligently answer what transmission you should get anymore than who you should marry, how many kids you should have etc. There is no wrong answer really, both transmissions are excellent and well worth having. Look at your history, usage for the car and select a transmission that you think will be best and you will be happy. I chose the DCT have no regrets at all, I love manual transmissions but my usage is a better fit for the DCT. I have friends who have the manual and love them also so you will be good either way but make the decision yourself not based on what a stranger thinks you should get.
Appreciate 6
jdarwin601.50
Robin_NL8679.50
aerobat134.50
JustChris17423.00
bollinm25.00
      05-15-2017, 10:54 AM   #50
arwin
Second Lieutenant
133
Rep
245
Posts

Drives: 2017 AW M2
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Edmonton, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pruettfan View Post
This is pretty much the worse question to ask here. Manual guys will go on and on about it being the only transmission worth considering yada yada. The reality is nobody here can intelligently answer what transmission you should get anymore than who you should marry, how many kids you should have etc. There is no wrong answer really, both transmissions are excellent and well worth having. Look at your history, usage for the car and select a transmission that you think will be best and you will be happy. I chose the DCT have no regrets at all, I love manual transmissions but my usage is a better fit for the DCT. I have friends who have the manual and love them also so you will be good either way but make the decision yourself not based on what a stranger thinks you should get.
I agree. I knew that this type of question would have ppl answering with whatever they chose and it could end up being a sh!t show, but I was looking for specific responses that were in the same boat as me with similar driving experience.

In the end, I'm just sticking with the MT because I know what I'm getting into and there won't be any regrets. The worst thing for me to do would be to switch over to DCT and then not being fulfilled with the car and then regretting not getting the MT.
Appreciate 1
Ian ///M491.00
      05-16-2017, 03:44 PM   #51
Reeves999999
New Member
8
Rep
14
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Bristol, UK

iTrader: (0)

My DCT is the first auto I've had and this is car number 44 for me. I love the ease of driving especially when just commuting in traffic. But, I do sense a real lack of control when driving for fun. So I just use the paddles. At least with DCT you can choose between the two, albeit it with no clutch pedal.
Appreciate 0
      05-16-2017, 04:10 PM   #52
M+M
Second Lieutenant
M+M's Avatar
New Zealand
227
Rep
245
Posts

Drives: M2 DCT MPerformance coilovers
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoggieHowser View Post
Over in Australia, manual is a no cost option for the M2 - DCT is standard.
Same in NZ, This debate can go on forever and there is no right answer. You do drive them differently I think. DCT has so many options from easy to manic in terms of modes and shift options - auto, paddles, stick - that there is almost something for everyone. Except a clutch. Can't have everything.
Appreciate 0
      05-16-2017, 09:55 PM   #53
ZPrime
I INDIC8
ZPrime's Avatar
United_States
611
Rep
1,282
Posts

Drives: 2018 LBB M2, 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Cleveland, OH

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [9.50]
I'm torn on the same decision as the OP. I've talked about it here in the past as well. I've had a VW dual-clutch in the past and did really enjoy that car, but started to miss the clutch and rowing gears... plus that was an N/A car. I think MTs make a lot of sense on N/A cars, but on modern turbo cars, the DCT is better suited since it allows you to not lose any boost during a shift. Absolutely huge speed advantage there. I'm currently driving a ~20PSI turbo I5 with a 6MT, and I wish it had a dual-clutch box on it (mostly because I fear for longevity of the stock clutch and syncros, and I'm still at stock power).

The question I've asked a few times and yet to receive an answer on though: between the 6MT and DCT, which can reliably hold additional power/torque more easily?

In VW/Audi world, the transverse DSG will hold a crapload more torque with just a software re-flash (and then can go even further with uprated clutchpacks). Guys are putting 600+ ft·lbs of torque through the "DQ250" (which is rated for 250 N·m of torque: ~185 ft·lbs) with just a software flash to increase clamping pressures.

I can't find a lot of info on the M-DCT and how it behaves when you add power to the car... on VW stuff the transmission software flash is necessary or else the DSG will actually send "torque reduction" messages back to the ECU and kill power gains... but in the long run, the DSG boxes reliably hold a lot more torque than their 6MT clutches do. If BMW is the same way, and additional power is in your plans, that would be another plus for DCT...

I still think my order will end up being for 6MT though. The auto-revmatch should help alleviate some of my track day concerns (much easier to nail a downshift while braking when the car blips for you), and from the bit I've driven a BMW 6MT, it feels light-years better than my Audi. It also helps that it is $2900 cheaper in the US; I'm amazed that DCT is standard in other parts of the world... they should give you lot a discount if you take the 6MT.
__________________
2004 Matrix XRS 6MT => 2008 VW R32 DSG => 2012 Audi TTRS 6MT => 2018 BMW ///M2 6MT
I'm an IT guy by trade and tech nerd by choice.
I like HPDEs, parts of US Hwy 129, NC 28, and the Cherohala Skyway.
I'm also a fan of aural pleasure.

Last edited by ZPrime; 05-16-2017 at 10:02 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-16-2017, 11:54 PM   #54
430409M2
Private First Class
430409M2's Avatar
95
Rep
176
Posts

Drives: ///M2 PE
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZPrime View Post
The question I've asked a few times and yet to receive an answer on though: between the 6MT and DCT, which can reliably hold additional power/torque more easily?
If by any chance it's the same unit from the larger cars, then it's the getrag 7DCI700. You can find it on their site

http://www.getrag.com/en/products/Transmission.html

Or see the attached image. I think it can handle anything you will realistically throw at it. Don't forget to design in a safety factor..

Also, I've driven VW's dsg and I did not like the feel and response. The m-DCT makes me happy. Ask the misses, that's hard to do.
Attached Images
 
__________________
2016 f87 ///M2 || Long Beach Blue || DCT || (Current)
2014 f22 M235i || Alpine White || Manual ||
2000 e46 323Ci || Light Metallic Gelb || Manual || (Current)
1991 e30 318is || Alpine White || Manual ||
Appreciate 1
ZPrime610.50
      05-17-2017, 03:06 AM   #55
3rdcoast228i
Captain
225
Rep
610
Posts

Drives: 2016 228i Msport
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadz View Post
Sorry, but I look at this in a very philosophical way. What else can we dumb down in today's society as we get force fed the simpler method on just about everything. Yes the auto blipping helps, but it still takes more skill than driving the auto. We have become lazier and lazier and so many skills are no longer needed because something or someone does it for us. Where have all the tactile nuances gone.....would you rather sit down and turn the pages of a book when reading a fine piece of literature or sit in front of a monitor? Why does everything have to be faster and more convenient? People get into trouble today and the first thing they do is pick up their cell phone. Have you ever run out of gas and been stuck somewhere and had to walk, or even knock on someone's door for help. All these small minute experiences are gone. You aren't even allowed to change your own tire any longer if you get a flat. The list goes on and on as we march supposedly forward.
I understand what you are saying but I belive it is more romantic than philosophical.

I recently had the pleasure of watching a gentleman go through the lengthy process of starting a car from 1905. If you didn't do the process correctly the car will not start, or even the possibility you could break your arm when cranking.

Now I don't even take the key out of my pocket to start my car. And not one person here is saying, damn I miss the days when cars had 2 keys!

Progress is going to happen and skills are lost unfortunately.

That said, I really dont think the the MT is going away any time soon.

Rumours of MT death have been going on for decades.
Appreciate 1
aerobat134.50
      05-17-2017, 05:35 AM   #56
Isty
Private First Class
Sweden
102
Rep
152
Posts

Drives: M3 E46 - V40 T5 - M2 aug deliv
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Have only driven DCT M2 and it was incredibly fun and I ordered my M2 with the MT because I cannot see how it will dissapoint me.

Although I have been enjoying my 8speed auto Volvo v40 with paddles more than I expected, and recently I've hated the manual in my M3 E46 on the daily commute to and from work.

This made me wonder if I should take the DCT after all, but I think I'll regret it. I also think the m3 is alot more work regarding the shiftaction, clutch etc.

Think I need to test a 6mt M2 before I ruin my bankaccount
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2017, 07:24 AM   #57
3Si
Second Lieutenant
3Si's Avatar
Canada
217
Rep
228
Posts

Drives: 16 M2, 16 Macan S, 08 Elise SC
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZPrime View Post
I'm torn on the same decision as the OP. I've talked about it here in the past as well. I've had a VW dual-clutch in the past and did really enjoy that car, but started to miss the clutch and rowing gears... plus that was an N/A car. I think MTs make a lot of sense on N/A cars, but on modern turbo cars, the DCT is better suited since it allows you to not lose any boost during a shift. Absolutely huge speed advantage there. I'm currently driving a ~20PSI turbo I5 with a 6MT, and I wish it had a dual-clutch box on it (mostly because I fear for longevity of the stock clutch and syncros, and I'm still at stock power).

The question I've asked a few times and yet to receive an answer on though: between the 6MT and DCT, which can reliably hold additional power/torque more easily?

In VW/Audi world, the transverse DSG will hold a crapload more torque with just a software re-flash (and then can go even further with uprated clutchpacks). Guys are putting 600+ ft·lbs of torque through the "DQ250" (which is rated for 250 N·m of torque: ~185 ft·lbs) with just a software flash to increase clamping pressures.

I can't find a lot of info on the M-DCT and how it behaves when you add power to the car... on VW stuff the transmission software flash is necessary or else the DSG will actually send "torque reduction" messages back to the ECU and kill power gains... but in the long run, the DSG boxes reliably hold a lot more torque than their 6MT clutches do. If BMW is the same way, and additional power is in your plans, that would be another plus for DCT...

I still think my order will end up being for 6MT though. The auto-revmatch should help alleviate some of my track day concerns (much easier to nail a downshift while braking when the car blips for you), and from the bit I've driven a BMW 6MT, it feels light-years better than my Audi. It also helps that it is $2900 cheaper in the US; I'm amazed that DCT is standard in other parts of the world... they should give you lot a discount if you take the 6MT.

I had the same dilemma back then with DSG (Gen1), and the estimated torque cap was around 300 lbs. At the end, after all the bolt-ons and tune, I was still under the threshold. Basically, anything south of an HPA Turbo kit or a K04, you are safe. All the duo clutch transmission have improved so much since then, there are quite a few modded M2s that's doing well over 400 lbs of torque. Unless you plan on going GTR Alpine crazy with your M2, it should be fine. It's basically the same unit as the M3/4, and those guys have been running them fine.

If you plan to track regularly, I highly recommend the DCT as points you have already made. It really is that much better performance wise. "Fun-factor" is subjective, but for me, it is just as fun if not more than an MT. With a lot of the Porsche guys going PDK at some of my runs, I have to even the playing field somewhat.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2017, 07:27 AM   #58
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28912
Rep
13,047
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdcoast228i View Post
I understand what you are saying but I belive it is more romantic than philosophical.
I recently had the pleasure of watching a gentleman go through the lengthy process of starting a car from 1905. If you didn't do the process correctly the car will not start, or even the possibility you could break your arm when cranking.
Now I don't even take the key out of my pocket to start my car. And not one person here is saying, damn I miss the days when cars had 2 keys!
Progress is going to happen and skills are lost unfortunately.
That said, I really dont think the the MT is going away any time soon.
Rumours of MT death have been going on for decades.
On a different level, but nevertheless. In a faraway past everyone rode and drove on the left side of roads for convenience reasons related to horses and the majority of people being right-handed (using the right hand to lash horses and hold swords in battles). Things changed in the 18th century. But still today, 35% continues to drive on the left. Same for trains and trams.
History summary: http://www.worldstandards.eu/cars/driving-on-the-left/
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 1
M2Nebula547.50
      05-17-2017, 07:56 AM   #59
alexdt256
Registered
Canada
2
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 on the way
Join Date: May 2017
Location: MTL

iTrader: (0)

I know you already made your decision but here's my bottom line :

1. I drove manual for years and always find them fun (Track and road)
2. I recently sold my other car (A DCT) I had it for 3 years and I remember when I received it how disappointing I was ... DCT on the road is kind of boring to be honest ....but ! When I finally went to the track that changed, a DCT on the track is magical. I wouldn't say it's more fun than a manual but definitely faster.

That's why I ordered the 6MT on the M2. (Since I'm mostly on the road)
Appreciate 1
Verdi250.00
      05-17-2017, 08:45 AM   #60
Bazgab
Private First Class
United_States
132
Rep
190
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW M2
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Raleigh, NC

iTrader: (0)

My last car had a dual clutch transmission (VW DSG). Very competent transmission but it sucks out a lot of the day-to-day fun of driving. No doubt it is faster than me. When I was looking at the M2 the DCT was not even an option for me. I had the chance to drive the DCT at the Performance Center and have had my 6MT car for a little over a week, I have no regrets with going with the 6MT.
__________________
:::: 2017 AW M2 :::: (SOLD)
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2017, 08:54 AM   #61
aerobat
Private First Class
aerobat's Avatar
Sweden
135
Rep
128
Posts

Drives: M Roadster
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Exclamation

Long time ago i owned a Porsche 930 Turbo.
A real beast of the time. It was a "real car";
- No power steering
- No ABS
- No Traction control
- No anti slip and slide systems
- 4 gear MT
- Extreme turbo lag
Was it fast, yes. The average driver could go fast straight ahead, an expert was required to drive it fast on a track.
Was it fun? Yes, at the time. You could drive it hours really hard and still it was imperturbable.
Would I want one today? Maybe, for sunny Sundays once in a while. But it would be as a nostalgic trip. It is an icon. And it still is pretty fast.
But otherwise it is hopelessly outdated.
And all those "features" it had, including the 4 gear MT, I don't miss them at all.
__________________
Current: M Roadster Silver/Black (Fun car), BMW 330ti Compact (Trackday), Mercedes C220d AMG Estate (Everyday)
Previous: BMW M2 DCT M Performance Suspension/Stage2, Porsche 993 Carrera 2S, Porsche 993 Carrera 2, Porsche 964 Carrera 2 Cab,Mazda RX8, Porsche 930 Turbo, BMW M3 E36, BMW M3 E30, BMW M5 E34, BMW 325iM Coupe

Last edited by aerobat; 05-17-2017 at 09:23 AM..
Appreciate 1
Robin_NL8679.50
      05-17-2017, 09:27 AM   #62
M2Nebula
Captain
M2Nebula's Avatar
548
Rep
642
Posts

Drives: M2, X1, TSX WGN
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New England

iTrader: (0)

Even BMW wants you to buy the 6MT.....DCT no longer available! :-]

Appreciate 1
D CHOI580.00
      05-17-2017, 09:33 AM   #63
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
8680
Rep
7,846
Posts

Drives: HS M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobat View Post
Long time ago i owned a Porsche 930 Turbo.
A real beast of the time. It was a "real car";
- No power steering
- No ABS
- No Traction control
- No anti slip and slide systems
- 4 gear MT
- Extreme turbo lag
Was it fast, yes. The average driver could go fast straight ahead, an expert where required to drive it fast on a track.
Was it fun? Yes, at the time. You could drive it hours really hard and still it was imperturbable.
Would I want one today? Maybe, for sunny Sundays once in a while. But it would be as a nostalgic trip. It is an icon. And it still is pretty fast.
But otherwise it is hopelessly outdated.
And all those "features" it had, including the 4 gear MT, I don't miss them at all.
I get your point
Any M2 is equipped with servoed brakes + ABS, electronic nannies, traction control,(E)power steering, throttle blip(6MT too).

A DCT is superfast in any way also(especially) on B roads, the surge forward when going from 2nd/3rd/4rth in a long sweeping bend with such a car capable of higher Gs is surreal, no MT does it like that.
You can use the paddles or the stick and it goes like a maniac. Instantly. But many still prefer the 3rd pedal and rowing on their own.(and keeping the nannies on all the time )
I understand that feeling I really do.

The M2 is not an oldskool car.
It pretends to be one but it's not.

Think about it.

I'm heading for Papenburg Germany this sunday for another track/highspeed drift day (my 3rd one with this car) in my subpar, automatic, DCT equipped M2...with all TC/nannies turned off. Just me and the lsd. No real purist 6MT with throttle blip and TC etc on.

I know I know It's more a car for disabled people I'm sure.
But I just have to live with it. Sorry 6MT drivers


Cheers
Robin
Appreciate 1
bollinm25.00
      05-17-2017, 11:12 AM   #64
My guy
Registered
2
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: 2018 LCI M2
Join Date: May 2017
Location: U.S. Alabama

iTrader: (0)

Dct all the way
Appreciate 1
jdarwin601.50
      05-17-2017, 11:43 AM   #65
David1
Brigadier General
David1's Avatar
No_Country
795
Rep
3,945
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 09 X5
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Columbus, OH

iTrader: (1)

I went DCT and will never own a rubbery BMW manual again.
__________________
2021 M2 Comp Sunset Orange |Black with orange Stitching Dakota Leather|Executive Pkg|DCT
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2017, 12:30 AM   #66
ZPrime
I INDIC8
ZPrime's Avatar
United_States
611
Rep
1,282
Posts

Drives: 2018 LBB M2, 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Cleveland, OH

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [9.50]
Here's another question / possible plus for DCT - does BMW offer remote-start via ConnectedDrive / iOS app (or even by the keyfob)? If so, presumably this is only an option on DCT cars and not with a stick?
__________________
2004 Matrix XRS 6MT => 2008 VW R32 DSG => 2012 Audi TTRS 6MT => 2018 BMW ///M2 6MT
I'm an IT guy by trade and tech nerd by choice.
I like HPDEs, parts of US Hwy 129, NC 28, and the Cherohala Skyway.
I'm also a fan of aural pleasure.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:35 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST