05-14-2017, 10:37 PM | #45 |
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Thanks for all the input everyone. Ive decided to stick with the manual transmission. Ive driven stick for a long time already so stop and go traffic isn't an issue. Besides, I don't travel during rush hour for the most part anyway. The wife can also drive stick as well so there's no issue in that either. I think what I would regret the most is if I got DCT and initially I liked it and then it got boring afterwards. With the mt I know what I'm getting into already. But I really appreciate all the replies.
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05-14-2017, 11:37 PM | #46 | |
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M3 Adjuster7904.50 |
05-15-2017, 02:36 AM | #47 |
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Got mine beginning of april. Now I've done over 3000km in it.
I love it and I think DCT adds to fun, at least for me. My 17-year old sons comment was: "That punch when DCT is changing up is really the best" he said. The punch in Sport+ is really nice. Especially when changing around 6000rpm. This is my first automatic sports car (see my list of MT), so I have really tried some MT... Just as a comment to the to the sometimes hard discussion MT vs DCT; I think that is a US thing. In Europe you just get what you like, it is not a religion to drive manual since everybody in Europe learnt to drive in manual. To me, it would have been easier with an MT. It has been a learning curve to use the DCT in a good way. The main reason why it is a bit harder (at least for a old-time MT person like me) to know which gear you have when using DCT, when using MT you always know what gear you have. I think M2 is all about fun, so at the end of the day it is all a matter of personal preference. Unless you have to be faster, then you have to get DCT.
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05-15-2017, 07:18 AM | #48 |
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Short shift to 2nd, problem solved. I've had DSG and PDK all located on the steering wheel without any problems. With my MT cars, I rarely shift in the middle of a turn, guess I didn't want to make a habit of it and start doing that on the track.
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05-15-2017, 08:25 AM | #49 |
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This is pretty much the worse question to ask here. Manual guys will go on and on about it being the only transmission worth considering yada yada. The reality is nobody here can intelligently answer what transmission you should get anymore than who you should marry, how many kids you should have etc. There is no wrong answer really, both transmissions are excellent and well worth having. Look at your history, usage for the car and select a transmission that you think will be best and you will be happy. I chose the DCT have no regrets at all, I love manual transmissions but my usage is a better fit for the DCT. I have friends who have the manual and love them also so you will be good either way but make the decision yourself not based on what a stranger thinks you should get.
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05-15-2017, 10:54 AM | #50 | |
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In the end, I'm just sticking with the MT because I know what I'm getting into and there won't be any regrets. The worst thing for me to do would be to switch over to DCT and then not being fulfilled with the car and then regretting not getting the MT. |
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05-16-2017, 03:44 PM | #51 |
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My DCT is the first auto I've had and this is car number 44 for me. I love the ease of driving especially when just commuting in traffic. But, I do sense a real lack of control when driving for fun. So I just use the paddles. At least with DCT you can choose between the two, albeit it with no clutch pedal.
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05-16-2017, 04:10 PM | #52 |
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Same in NZ, This debate can go on forever and there is no right answer. You do drive them differently I think. DCT has so many options from easy to manic in terms of modes and shift options - auto, paddles, stick - that there is almost something for everyone. Except a clutch. Can't have everything.
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05-16-2017, 09:55 PM | #53 |
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I'm torn on the same decision as the OP. I've talked about it here in the past as well. I've had a VW dual-clutch in the past and did really enjoy that car, but started to miss the clutch and rowing gears... plus that was an N/A car. I think MTs make a lot of sense on N/A cars, but on modern turbo cars, the DCT is better suited since it allows you to not lose any boost during a shift. Absolutely huge speed advantage there. I'm currently driving a ~20PSI turbo I5 with a 6MT, and I wish it had a dual-clutch box on it (mostly because I fear for longevity of the stock clutch and syncros, and I'm still at stock power).
The question I've asked a few times and yet to receive an answer on though: between the 6MT and DCT, which can reliably hold additional power/torque more easily? In VW/Audi world, the transverse DSG will hold a crapload more torque with just a software re-flash (and then can go even further with uprated clutchpacks). Guys are putting 600+ ft·lbs of torque through the "DQ250" (which is rated for 250 N·m of torque: ~185 ft·lbs) with just a software flash to increase clamping pressures. I can't find a lot of info on the M-DCT and how it behaves when you add power to the car... on VW stuff the transmission software flash is necessary or else the DSG will actually send "torque reduction" messages back to the ECU and kill power gains... but in the long run, the DSG boxes reliably hold a lot more torque than their 6MT clutches do. If BMW is the same way, and additional power is in your plans, that would be another plus for DCT... I still think my order will end up being for 6MT though. The auto-revmatch should help alleviate some of my track day concerns (much easier to nail a downshift while braking when the car blips for you), and from the bit I've driven a BMW 6MT, it feels light-years better than my Audi. It also helps that it is $2900 cheaper in the US; I'm amazed that DCT is standard in other parts of the world... they should give you lot a discount if you take the 6MT.
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05-16-2017, 11:54 PM | #54 | |
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http://www.getrag.com/en/products/Transmission.html Or see the attached image. I think it can handle anything you will realistically throw at it. Don't forget to design in a safety factor.. Also, I've driven VW's dsg and I did not like the feel and response. The m-DCT makes me happy. Ask the misses, that's hard to do.
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05-17-2017, 03:06 AM | #55 | |
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I recently had the pleasure of watching a gentleman go through the lengthy process of starting a car from 1905. If you didn't do the process correctly the car will not start, or even the possibility you could break your arm when cranking. Now I don't even take the key out of my pocket to start my car. And not one person here is saying, damn I miss the days when cars had 2 keys! Progress is going to happen and skills are lost unfortunately. That said, I really dont think the the MT is going away any time soon. Rumours of MT death have been going on for decades. |
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05-17-2017, 05:35 AM | #56 |
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Have only driven DCT M2 and it was incredibly fun and I ordered my M2 with the MT because I cannot see how it will dissapoint me.
Although I have been enjoying my 8speed auto Volvo v40 with paddles more than I expected, and recently I've hated the manual in my M3 E46 on the daily commute to and from work. This made me wonder if I should take the DCT after all, but I think I'll regret it. I also think the m3 is alot more work regarding the shiftaction, clutch etc. Think I need to test a 6mt M2 before I ruin my bankaccount |
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05-17-2017, 07:24 AM | #57 | |
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I had the same dilemma back then with DSG (Gen1), and the estimated torque cap was around 300 lbs. At the end, after all the bolt-ons and tune, I was still under the threshold. Basically, anything south of an HPA Turbo kit or a K04, you are safe. All the duo clutch transmission have improved so much since then, there are quite a few modded M2s that's doing well over 400 lbs of torque. Unless you plan on going GTR Alpine crazy with your M2, it should be fine. It's basically the same unit as the M3/4, and those guys have been running them fine. If you plan to track regularly, I highly recommend the DCT as points you have already made. It really is that much better performance wise. "Fun-factor" is subjective, but for me, it is just as fun if not more than an MT. With a lot of the Porsche guys going PDK at some of my runs, I have to even the playing field somewhat. |
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05-17-2017, 07:27 AM | #58 | |
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History summary: http://www.worldstandards.eu/cars/driving-on-the-left/
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05-17-2017, 07:56 AM | #59 |
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I know you already made your decision but here's my bottom line :
1. I drove manual for years and always find them fun (Track and road) 2. I recently sold my other car (A DCT) I had it for 3 years and I remember when I received it how disappointing I was ... DCT on the road is kind of boring to be honest ....but ! When I finally went to the track that changed, a DCT on the track is magical. I wouldn't say it's more fun than a manual but definitely faster. That's why I ordered the 6MT on the M2. (Since I'm mostly on the road) |
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05-17-2017, 08:45 AM | #60 |
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My last car had a dual clutch transmission (VW DSG). Very competent transmission but it sucks out a lot of the day-to-day fun of driving. No doubt it is faster than me. When I was looking at the M2 the DCT was not even an option for me. I had the chance to drive the DCT at the Performance Center and have had my 6MT car for a little over a week, I have no regrets with going with the 6MT.
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05-17-2017, 08:54 AM | #61 |
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Long time ago i owned a Porsche 930 Turbo.
A real beast of the time. It was a "real car"; - No power steering - No ABS - No Traction control - No anti slip and slide systems - 4 gear MT - Extreme turbo lag Was it fast, yes. The average driver could go fast straight ahead, an expert was required to drive it fast on a track. Was it fun? Yes, at the time. You could drive it hours really hard and still it was imperturbable. Would I want one today? Maybe, for sunny Sundays once in a while. But it would be as a nostalgic trip. It is an icon. And it still is pretty fast. But otherwise it is hopelessly outdated. And all those "features" it had, including the 4 gear MT, I don't miss them at all.
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05-17-2017, 09:33 AM | #63 | |
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Any M2 is equipped with servoed brakes + ABS, electronic nannies, traction control,(E)power steering, throttle blip(6MT too). A DCT is superfast in any way also(especially) on B roads, the surge forward when going from 2nd/3rd/4rth in a long sweeping bend with such a car capable of higher Gs is surreal, no MT does it like that. You can use the paddles or the stick and it goes like a maniac. Instantly. But many still prefer the 3rd pedal and rowing on their own.(and keeping the nannies on all the time ) I understand that feeling I really do. The M2 is not an oldskool car. It pretends to be one but it's not. Think about it. I'm heading for Papenburg Germany this sunday for another track/highspeed drift day (my 3rd one with this car) in my subpar, automatic, DCT equipped M2...with all TC/nannies turned off. Just me and the lsd. No real purist 6MT with throttle blip and TC etc on. I know I know It's more a car for disabled people I'm sure. But I just have to live with it. Sorry 6MT drivers Cheers Robin |
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05-17-2017, 11:43 AM | #65 |
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I went DCT and will never own a rubbery BMW manual again.
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05-20-2017, 12:30 AM | #66 |
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Here's another question / possible plus for DCT - does BMW offer remote-start via ConnectedDrive / iOS app (or even by the keyfob)? If so, presumably this is only an option on DCT cars and not with a stick?
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