[Gatte]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

you are also ignoring the biggest thing in the market right now.. model specialization for the purpose of expanding price range.

The last Cayman model had FOUR models. Base, S, GTS, and GT4 which ranged from 49K to 84K.

Audi has the TT coupe, TTS coupe, TT roadster, and TT-RS ( FOUR models from $43,500 up to $77K for the TT RS? )

Mercedes CLA- CLA250 , CLA 250 4MATIC, CLA AMG (three models)

Ford Focus- TEN models - go to their site- Ive no time to list them all and they are not a direct competitor

Ford Mustang- Mustang, Ecoboost , Mustang GT, Shelby GT350 ; Shelby Gt350R - FIVE (or more) models from $25K to $63K

Chevrolet Camaro - 1LS, LT, LS, SS, ZL1 (five models) not to mention options packages like the 1LE.. ranging from $25K to $61K.

Lexus- RC, RC300, RC350, RC-F as well as additional F sport models range form $40K to $65K

Pick a competitor and see how many variants of vehicles they are selling.. tell me again why having Five 2 series models ranging from 228 to M24 and then M2, M2 CS and M2 GTS/CSL is " too many models? That's crazy talk..!

The way to make more profit is to spread costs out via model specialization. BMW already knows that and builds the BMW 3 series, 3 series GT, 3 series touring, 4 series, 4 series gran coupe as well as convertible models all on the same chassis. The 2 series extends from 33K to 53K currently.. and the CS (and any other model ) will stretch that price range... just as the competition ( as well as BMW themselves! ) is doing with their lineups.

BMW has spread the 3/4 series lineup price range from the 320 at 33K to the M4 GTS which was 134K.. .. but apparently the 2 series lineup cant use this treatment?

Almost every model that you listed sells more in numbers than the M4 GTS, M4 CS and the expected M2 CS. The only exception in that list is the Porsche GT4. Even the GT350R is going to be about 2500 cars worldwide.

M4 CS total production numbers are expected to be about 2000 worldwide. The M2 CS will probably be even lower than that. Why would BMW want to spend money on making another limited edition car and how much of an increment would it be on the CS which already gets the new engine.

Even looking at the prices, the highest priced car other than the M4 GTS and the M4 CS is the GT4 which was 84K. That had a NA flat 6 engine in the middle and was limited to just 400. The M2 GTS/CSL if it gets made will not be able to command a fee too much greater than the GT4.

It would make sense for BMW to just make one more version which will be a bigger improvement over the base car than the M4 CS.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Gatte

Almost every model that you listed sells more in numbers than the M4 GTS, M4 CS and the expected M2 CS. The only exception in that list is the Porsche GT4. Even the GT350R is going to be about 2500 cars worldwide.

M4 CS total production numbers are expected to be about 2000 worldwide. The M2 CS will probably be even lower than that. Why would BMW want to spend money on making another limited edition car and how much of an increment would it be on the CS which already gets the new engine.

Even looking at the prices, the highest priced car other than the M4 GTS and the M4 CS is the GT4 which was 84K. That had a NA flat 6 engine in the middle and was limited to just 400. The M2 GTS/CSL if it gets made will not be able to command a fee too much greater than the GT4.

It would make sense for BMW to just make one more version which will be a bigger improvement over the base car than the M4 CS.

Are you lobbying ?

[M2 CSL]

Did the original GTS rumor come from a credible source?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by jmb2027

I wish they'd tweak the current M2 first before really diving into a high performance version...

- oil temp gauge
- better seats
- M mirrors (1M has it)
- CF roof (may be asking too much, 1M doesn't have it)
- factory blackout option (front grille surround and side badges)
- a pearl white option
- maybe a new beefed up B58 update?

You already missed the LCI .. so... see what next year holds. ...

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

The last Cayman model had FOUR models. Base, S, GTS, and GT4 which ranged from 49K to 84K.

To be added: Cayman R (mostly pitted against the BMW 1M back in 2011).

[M2 CSL]

The other aspect is if it makes it to the USA. I can see the CS going to the states assuming it's just an S55 and a couple other bits. But a GTS even if they make it may never make See the light of day in the USA if there are more substantial changes and BMW doesn't want the added cost of dealing with safety and emissions regs from a "different" car.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by M2 CSL

The other aspect is if it makes it to the USA. I can see the CS going to the states assuming it's just an S55 and a couple other bits. But a GTS even if they make it may never make See the light of day in the USA if there are more substantial changes and BMW doesn't want the added cost of dealing with safety and emissions regs from a "different" car.

Well if they could afford to do it for 300 M4 GTS .. at 135k apiece.... don't ya think they could sell 500- 600 M2 GTS here at 85k per and realize the same profit ?

[GimmeanM]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Well if they could afford to do it for 300 M4 GTS .. at 135k apiece.... don't ya think they could sell 500- 600 M2 GTS here at 85k per and realize the same profit ?

True, and if an M2 GTS were made it would probably be more loved than the M4 GTS has been, further reinforcing confidence in bringing it to the USA. The USA is M's largest market too.

However, I still don't see this happening. I doubt ///Marketing would allow their flagship 'best' car to be an M2. That's the M3/M4's job. From the initial M4CS reviews it sounds like they took some of the criticism of the GTS to heart. Should be a great car! And with the time allotted for F87 production and the speculated timetable for the M2CS, doesn't seem like there is enough time. I think we would have seen some leaked info by now.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by jmb2027

I wish they'd tweak the current M2 first before really diving into a high performance version...

- oil temp gauge
- better seats
- M mirrors (1M has it)
- CF roof (may be asking too much, 1M doesn't have it)
- factory blackout option (front grille surround and side badges)
- a pearl white option
- maybe a new beefed up B58 update?

Almost nothing in this list is really performance related.

The B58 is performance related but I'm thinking that's not exactly a tweak.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by Artemis

To be added: Cayman R (mostly pitted against the BMW 1M back in 2011).

The 1M did come out top overall in a lot of head to heads. That's part of the reason why I always thought the M2 CS should trump the ~3 year old GT4 while being ~18K cheaper.

Don't think BMW does those type of cars anymore.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Well if they could afford to do it for 300 M4 GTS .. at 135k apiece.... don't ya think they could sell 500- 600 M2 GTS here at 85k per and realize the same profit ?

Not gonna be 85K if it ever gets made. Even you know that.

[M2 CSL]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Well if they could afford to do it for 300 M4 GTS .. at 135k apiece.... don't ya think they could sell 500- 600 M2 GTS here at 85k per and realize the same profit ?

I'm not sure how much profit these special edition cars really make in the grand scheme of things. I wouldn't be surprised if they target break even on project specific costs and hope to get paid through the back end on free marketing (car mag covers, positive press etc.) and brand shaping helping overall sales for non GTS models.

Even if they made $100k in operating profit per GTS sold in the US (they didn't) that would be 0.0029 of operating profit for BMW last year.

The decision to make these cars is probably a combination of marketing/branding, nod to purists/fanbois, management ego, relevancy, etc.

The M4 GTS reception may make them reconsider as they may not have received the positive press boost they imagined making the whole project a waste of management time and energy given there aren't sizable profits associated with it.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by M2 CSL

I'm not sure how much profit these special edition cars really make in the grand scheme of things. I wouldn't be surprised if they target break even on project specific costs and hope to get paid through the back end on free marketing (car mag covers, positive press etc.) and brand shaping helping overall sales for non GTS models.

Even if they made $100k in operating profit per GTS sold in the US (they didn't) that would be 0.0029 of operating profit for BMW last year.

The decision to make these cars is probably a combination of marketing/branding, nod to purists/fanbois, management ego, relevancy, etc.

The M4 GTS reception may make them reconsider as they may not have received the positive press boost they imagined making the whole project a waste of management time and energy given there aren't sizable profits associated with it.

Absolutely.. Agree 100% profit has very little to do with it when it comes to marketing a specialty model.. but the point of investing the money in bringing the car to market still has the same business case either way.

In other words.. did the M4 GTS bring all the school boys to the yard? Would an M2 GTS ? UH.. HUH..

Indeed.. the question now becomes.. does BMW want to NOT market the M2 as much as the M4.. and the likely answer is.. unfortunately yes... except for as you mentioned.. all that BAD press about their last special edition... They can leave the GTS name alone for another 5-6 years.. or come back with a vengeance and prove it's not just a name with $$$$ and perhaps broaden the appeal of the GTS lineup overall.