[Twt]

Originally Posted by STK

The issue with pads and break fluid is heat. The OEM pads are not designed for the heat generated by repeated threshold breaking from high speeds. Once you are breaking correctly the pads will eventually crumble as you are generating too much heat. It shouldn't be a problem the first day or two but as you get faster and your technique improves you will need to go to track pads. They have a lot of different properties so I suggest listening to folks in the know and experiment a bit. The are differences in the way they bite, release, how linear they are, how long they last, how dusty, how loud, etc.
Break fluid is hydroscopic and as it absorbs moisture it boils at a lower temp. As it boils air bubbles form in the line and make the pedal mushy. So you want fluid with a higher boiling point than stick. I'm sure there is a thread on wet/dry boiling points of various fluids. I think Castrol has the highest but you pay for it. Others are acceptable too. You do need to chAnge the fluid as it absorbs water but not after every weekend but you should probably bleed the lines. Start w/OEM tires. They will squeal more and indicate when you are nearing the limits of adhesion. As you get better switch to better tires. They are stickier and you will go faster but they are quieter so the feedback while there is less obvious at first.

Most importantly, recognize that you, not the OEM car, is the bottleneck to going faster. Start considering upgrading when the OEM parts are creating the bottleneck, not you. Pads and fluids will be the first as the heat will cause break fade and you'll need to upgrade pretty soon. Then tires. Then possibly some suspension bits. But since the car is so capable out of the box, getting coilovers is likely a step too far unless you are really unhappy with the street experience and want something more compliant that can be notched up for the track - Ohlins for example. That choice depends a lot on personal preference, the ratio of track to street, and how much harshness and noise you can put up with on the street.

Great advice. The car, in stock form is a beast and much more capable than most of the drivers who track it. Even Randy Pobst told me that out of the box it was one of the best cars he ever tested....and don't screw it up with mods. Having said that, pads, fluid and SS brake lines are a must for anyone on track....after that, seat time and coaching are the most important upgrades.

[STK]

Originally Posted by Twt

Great advice. The car, in stock form is a beast and much more capable than most of the drivers who track it. Even Randy Pobst told me that out of the box it was one of the best cars he ever tested....and don't screw it up with mods. Having said that, pads, fluid and SS brake lines are a must for anyone on track....after that, seat time and coaching are the most important upgrades.

The M2 is surely a beast. But honestly, almost any modern car is beyond the capabilities of the vast majority of drivers. How many drivers can initiate and correct understeer and oversteer? How many are capable of fine adjustments of brake throttle and steering? How many notice the difference in how a car handles with and without a 200 lb passenger sitting on one side of the car? Or when the tank is full or empty? How many understand the correct line around a turn? How many can drive a car near the limits of adhesion?

These are all learned skills and almost anyone can get better. It's a bit like like a musical instrument in that some folks are way more naturally talented and a few are totally hopeless. However, the vast majority of us will improve significantly with practice. We just never get the practice and are handed a license. It's as if you're given a Steinway after learning chopsticks. For quite a while, the bottleneck to going faster is the driver. Ask a Spec Miata guy how easy it is to drive a low hp momentum car at the limits. Practice not mods when you're starting out. Except for the glossy black grill surround. That's a mod I can go for.

[Twt]

Originally Posted by STK

The M2 is surely a beast. But honestly, almost any modern car is beyond the capabilities of the vast majority of drivers. How many drivers can initiate and correct understeer and oversteer? How many are capable of fine adjustments of brake throttle and steering? How many notice the difference in how a car handles with and without a 200 lb passenger sitting on one side of the car? Or when the tank is full or empty? How many understand the correct line around a turn? How many can drive a car near the limits of adhesion?

These are all learned skills and almost anyone can get better. It's a bit like like a musical instrument in that some folks are way more naturally talented and a few are totally hopeless. However, the vast majority of us will improve significantly with practice. We just never get the practice and are handed a license. It's as if you're given a Steinway after learning chopsticks. For quite a while, the bottleneck to going faster is the driver. Ask a Spec Miata guy how easy it is to drive a low hp momentum car at the limits. Practice not mods when you're starting out. Except for the glossy black grill surround. That's a mod I can go for.

I do love my glossy black surround. My barely modded M2 has passed McLarens, Z06s,GT3s, M4gts(s?), etc... I appreciate and admire all of these cars and the people who actually put them on track, provided they follow the rules. I do wish that everyone would train on a Miata before investing in a bad ass track car....they would be so much better and safer. It's hard, as an instructor, to walk up to a shiney 100k+ car only to find out your student is new to the hobby...Steinway anyone! As for the M2, it is a great balance between street and track....it pains me to hear of people modding the hell out of it, just because they can. If someone really outgrows this car's full potential,then buy a true track car and beat on it, but until then just do laps, be safe and have fun.

[OLO-M2]

Originally Posted by Franzino

Next week; I have more free time to check everything out with the pads...

Any update on that ? Let me know before Monday night please, otherwise I'll order the Pagid. Need to replace the pads before my next track day soon...
Thx !

[gsrbri]

I'll provide some feedback from a track-driven M4. I'm on my third season with about 10 track days per year, here in the US. Lime Rock Park, Watkins Glen, Mont Tremblant, and NHMS.

If you swap pads for the track, as I do, and are running race pads...I've run Pagid RS29 and Pagid RSL1 pads. The RS29 pads are excellent but don't have the bite/torque of the RSL1. That said, the RSL1 pads got the brakes so hot that even after extended cool down laps, my calipers are now a greenish color up front. Never have boiled brake fluid (running Motul RBF 600 fluid) and I change it once/month during track season...no matter what.

The M4 is slightly heavier than the M2, but has the same braking system and pads. Not a lot of options out there. PFC 08 is now out, and that's a great pad (used them on my E90 M3).

You can't lose w/the RS29...I've used this pad almost exclusively and it has great overall performance, doesn't interfere w/the factory pads (no rotor deposits), and lasts for several track days (4-5 days per set). I'm an upper intermediate driver, so pretty hard on my brakes. I also run CCW wheels w/NT01 tires (lots of grip for braking).

I'm getting my M2 this summer, so I'll have further feedback after my first few track days. I expect it will be close to the M4, given same suspension/track/brakes/LSD. Fun, durable M Car.

-Brian

[jritt@essex]

Below are two videos we produced on planning brake upgrades. Also, several years ago I wrote a basic brake upgrade guide on a different forum. Everything in that article applies to the M2. Hopefully these are helpful.

Videos

High Performance Brake Upgrade Guide

How to Plan for Future Brake Needs

Basic Brake Upgrade Guide

Daily Driver

If you never plan to do anything with your car other than drive it to work every day, there’s a solid chance you’ll be perfectly happy with the OEM brakes as delivered. Just about every modern car today has decent brakes, with far superior technology and performance vs. the cars our parents drove when we were kids. OEM brakes are designed for safety above all else. Any and all other considerations are secondary:

• Shortest stopping distance possible- Every once in a while, a kid chases ball into the road, or a deer jumps from the trees at an inopportune moment. The goal is to stop the car in the shortest possible distance to avoid a collision. The basic brake components are selected to achieve that goal based on the vehicle layout (RWD, FWD, etc.), weight, power, tires, etc.

• Stability- Inclement weather, limited driver skill, and chance all create road conditions that negatively impact a vehicle’s stability. Modern brake systems are designed to maintain as much stability under as many conditions as possible. ABS, traction control, and stability control systems all allow a driver to turn while braking, and help keep the car pointed in the desired direction. These systems also contribute to the point above, getting the car stopped and safe as quickly as possible.

• Repeated stops at max load- Manufacturers know their cars will be driven in rush-hour traffic, filled to the brim with gear from a local big box store, and/or possibly towing something at the vehicle’s max recommended load rating. Under those conditions, the car needs to be able to stop repeatedly in an acceptable manner.

Achieving the above objectives are sufficient for most of the cars on the road. For a specialized sports car, the manufacturer obviously goes a bit above and beyond these essentials. Factors such as pedal feel, pedal travel, pad compound feel, fade resistance under heavier than normal use, etc. all come into play. The manufacturer addresses these issues to make their car a competitive performer in the market, all while attempting to manage their costs as tightly as possible.

If your primary objective with your car is to safely take you from one place to another, you’ll be fine with leaving your stock brakes alone.

Spirited Street Driving

Enthusiasts tend to be a little tougher on equipment than ‘non-car’ people. They accelerate, turn, and brake harder on a regular basis, and they have higher performance expectations. Aggressive driving on back roads, canyons, etc. puts more heat into the brake system than running errands ever could. While manufacturers expect a sports car to be driven harder than a minivan, exactly how much harder leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Your idea of being tough on brakes may differ vastly from the engineers’ thoughts on the subject. Below is a list of upgrades that can be considered for aggressive street driving, in order of importance:

• High Performance Brake Pads- Performance pads will be your number one upgrade for improving brake feel and performance if you plan to drive your car hard on the street. I’ve written an in-depth article on how to choose the proper pads for your needs, so please read that article to learn more about pad selection.

• Slotted/Drilled Discs- If you upgrade your pads and still feel like you’re not getting enough bite out of them, you may want to consider slotted or drilled discs.

• Slotted discs provide more leading edges for a pad to bite into vs. a plain-face disc, and allow for pad material and water to evacuate the pad/disc interface. They are marginally more prone to cracking than plain face discs, but the added performance of slotted discs is worth the tradeoff to most enthusiasts (assuming the slot pattern is done correctly).

• Drilled discs, regardless of whether the holes are cast in or drilled after the casting process, are more prone to cracking than plain face or slotted discs. They do provide even more leading edges for pad bite, and a slight weight reduction. They also look snazzy.

• Slotted and drilled discs will wear your pads out more quickly than plain face discs. All of those leading edges assist with bite, but also increase wear rates.

• Holes and slots will also make more scraping and whirring noises than plain face discs, so there are some NVH (Noise Vibration Harshness) tradeoffs as well.

• Stainless Steel Brake Lines- While most people won’t notice a tremendous difference under street driving conditions, SS lines can enhance pedal feel, offer greater protection against road debris, and offer a slightly faster reaction time for brake activation.

• High Performance Brake Fluid- It is highly unlikely that you’ll boil your brake fluid under aggressive street driving. The more likely scenario is that you’ll only need to flush your brake fluid at regular service intervals. When you do, it never hurts to go with a slightly higher spec than stock if you plan to drive your car hard off the beaten path.

AutoX

Autocross presents a unique challenge for your car's brakes. Depending on the course layout, the amount of pad heat generated may not be any greater than stop-and-go traffic driving. Many times you never get out of second gear, which means speeds are generally limited to roughly 60 mph or less. Additionally, the flowing nature of a well-designed autocross course means that you don't always scrub off a tremendous amount of speed entering each brake zone. More often than not, you're trail-braking as you approach the apex of the corner, rather than standing on the brakes in a straight line. Therefore, precise control and feedback is what you're looking for in your brakes. Here are some brake upgrades to consider if you autoX your car:

• High Performance Brake Pads- As I discuss at length in my pads article, you’ll want a brake pad with good cold bite, predictable torque response, good all-weather performance, and a simple bed-in procedure.

• Slotted/Drilled Discs- Braking feel is extremely important in autocross, so for many drivers, slotted or drilled discs are worth the investment for the added touch they impart. Wear rates and NVH are secondary concerns when you’re fighting for every hundredth of a second. Additionally, drilled discs in particular can offer a tangible weight reduction, which can be critical in AutoX.

• Stainless Steel Brake Lines- As with discs, every little bit of added feel can mean the difference between winning or losing in a tightly contested AutoX. As such, properly made SS lines are a no-brainer upgrade with no downside.

• High Performance Brake Fluid- While fade isn’t typically an issue at AutoX, your increased maintenance and continual setup changes will mean that you’re under the car tinkering with your brakes more than you would be if you were only driving it on the street. As such, keeping some high quality brake fluid in the car as added insurance never hurts, nor does a good bleed for maintaining a firm and sensitive brake pedal.

• Two-piece Brake Discs- Unsprung weight is the devil to the avid autocrosser. You should always be looking to maximize weight reduction within the boundaries of the rules (or outside those boundaries if you’re really clever at cheating). Weight reduction in the wheels/brakes/suspension area is particularly beneficial to all aspects of acceleration, turning, and braking, which is the core of autoX. Two piece discs can in some cases offer substantial weight savings. Aftermarket two-piece discs will have aluminum hats that are lighter the stock iron pieces, and their overall construction and vane structure may offer further weight savings. Since you probably won’t be burning your discs up at a rapid rate, the initial cost of a two-piece disc may be worth the weight loss (commonly $600-$1000 per pair). Definitely check the price of replacement iron before making the commitment however. You will eventually have to change the discs since they are a wear item. Also, keep the size of the disc in mind. A larger than stock 2-piece disc may actually weigh more than the OEM units. Also, the larger the diameter of the disc, the greater the moment of inertia, which makes it more difficult to spin the disc from rest.

• Caliper Upgrade- A caliper-only upgrade could be a viable weight reduction option if the calipers are designed to work properly with the OEM master cylinder and discs. Again, the calipers must be sized properly, or you will be hurting your car's performance more than helping it!

• Aluminum, fixed-piston, opposed racing calipers tend to weigh less than OEM street calipers. For example, the OEM four piston front M2 caliper weighs 8 lbs., while the AP Racing CP9660 Radi-CAL weighs just over 6 pounds, despite having two extra pistons!

• However, slapping the calipers from a different vehicle on the FT86 can be a recipe for problems. While the parts may technically bolt onto the car, the actual performance may actually be significantly worse than stock. The main reason for this being improper brake bias. I will address this issue several more times throughout this article.

• Assuming bias is correct, in addition to a solid weight reduction, fixed piston racing calipers tend to offer substantially better feel, modulation, and a faster response than the OEM units due to enhanced stiffness. They are also superior at rejecting heat due to stainless steel pistons, high temperature seals, and no dust boots. Anti-knockback springs help keep a firm pedal after a series of S-turns, and an anodized finish won't burn up and change colors like a painted one.

• Aftermarket calipers may also offer a much wider range of pad selection, and the opportunity to increase pad volume and/or thickness.

• Big Brake Kit/Complete Competition Brake System- A complete brake system could be beneficial in AutoX for several reasons:

• Feel- Far stiffer, opposed piston racing calipers can offer dramatic changes in brake pedal feel and modulation. Some highly competitive types will find it worth the price of entry for this reason alone.

• Brake Balance/Bias- Getting the proper balance is very important for AutoX, and is closely related to the feel point above. If the piston sizes and disc diameter are not chosen carefully and properly (assuming you won’t be touching your OEM master cylinder), you will likely hurt your performance rather than help it. Increased (longer) stopping distances (the opposite of what you want), long brake pedal travel, and poor brake pedal feel are just some of the potential negatives of a poorly engineered system.

• Weight- Many complete brake kits shave weight over the stock setup. Even if the stock components and aftermarket components are the same physical dimensions, the aftermarket setup will be lighter 9 times out of 10. As an added bonus, the optimized components can offer a host of benefits if you also track your autoX car. On the other hand, if you add a system with extremely large discs and a huge eight piston caliper, you may be adding unnecessary unsprung weight and rotational mass to the car, and actually hurting your performance in autoX.

HPDE (High Performance Drivers Education)/Time Trial

On a road course, you will always put more heat into your brake system than you will on the street or at an autoX. Please reread that sentence! HPDE is really the first venue I've mentioned thus far where battling heat becomes the critical element in having an effective and reliable brake system.

One of the most interesting aspects of HPDE is the wide range of speeds and driver ability across run groups. As such, it's difficult to recommend a blanket brake solution for an M2 driven at a HPDE. As more and more people modify and drive these cars on tracks, we'll begin to get a better idea of what the typical and maximum brake demands will be. After countless discussions with customers on this topic over the years, I believe there a few key considerations when upgrading your brakes for an HPDE or Time Trial: Driver experience, track layout, vehicle configuration/modification, and tire choice. A careful examination of these factors in your personal situation should help guide you towards an acceptable brake solution. Keep in mind that all of these factors are related, and cannot be considered in isolation from one another.

• Driver experience- If you've never driven anywhere but the street, your first couple of trips to the track will most likely not tax your brake system too heavily, right? Not exactly. You being a complete track newbie won't necessarily protect your stock brakes from near total destruction. Novice drivers may be easier on the brakes because their corner exit speeds are lower, their terminal speeds entering brake zones are therefore lower, and there's less kinetic energy being transferred into heat during a given stop. That said, novice track drivers also tend to stab wildly at the brakes, stay on the brakes too long, oscillate between on and off brake, and do all sorts of other things one would never expect! The end result can be some serious brake punishment. It's impossible to say that a novice driver will be fine on stock brake pads based on track experience alone.

• Track layout- Long straights followed by tight turns mean your car is decelerating from a very high speed to a very low speed, creating a high energy stop. The distance between stops will also impact the heat retained in your brakes. If a particular track layout has a steady succession of medium straights and tight turns, your brakes don't have much time to cool between stops. That means heat will continually build. Flowing tracks with long sweepers are much easier on brakes (think Willow Springs (big track)). Look closely at the track(s) you'll be driving to determine how demanding they will be on your brakes.

• Vehicle configuration/modification- All else held equal, more massive, faster cars place a greater strain on the brake system in a brake zone. An Audi Allroad will require a much larger rotor as a heat sink than a Miata. If you strip 200lbs. out of your car (easier to accelerate), have a quality coilover system (higher cornering speeds), and add 50hp (greater acceleration), you're placing less demand on your brakes in terms of mass, but you'll need to slow down from higher speeds when entering turns.

• Tire choice- Tire choice is one of the single greatest factors in determining which brake setup will work for you on the track. The stickier the tire, the more brake you can use, and the more heat you will generate. More grip = more heat. If you're running the low grip OEM FT86 tires, or if it rains at an event, you won't be able to generate as much grip, and you won't tax your brakes as much.

So where does all of that leave us when upgrading your brakes for an HPDE or Time Trial? The critical point is, every modification you make to your car and the nut behind the wheel will change the demands on your brake system, and you must adjust accordingly. Just because you used a particular brake pad before, doesn't mean it will work again after you've installed your new turbo kit and Hoosiers. Chances are that after your 25th event, you'll be taxing your brakes very differently than you did during your first event. You'll be hitting higher speeds, entering and exiting corners faster and in a different way, and your car will likely have more grip and power than it did when you started (you'll also be much poorer, but likely happier ). If you typically run Limerock (a short track without many big braking zones), but decide to make a trip to Watkins Glen (a crazy fast track with huge brake demands), you need to reconsider how your brakes will be taxed. You must constantly evaluate the overall condition of your brake system, and not be afraid to try new brake setups as both you and your car evolve.

If you want to play it safe and not risk damage to the major components of your brake system, don't EVER drive an OEM pad on a road course. It may be more convenient and seem economical to run stock pads, but it will cost you time and money in the long run. There's also not much worse than wasted track time. When you're sitting in the pits watching your buddy rip down the front straight, and your stock pads are a steaming pile of dust lying inside your wheels, you'll be wishing you spent a couple hundred bucks and took the hour on Friday night to change your pads and bleed your fluid.

Hopefully that is helpful to some of you.

[CompetitionMotorsport]

We just got back from a weekend at Road America and one of the cars we took with us was our shop M2. We ran both Pagid RS29 and PFC08 pads on stock brakes with our RF1 racing brake fluid. With stock wheels and street tires (Michelin Super Sports), the oem brake setup with either the Pagid or PFC pads worked great with no fade. You don't want to use the oem pads for any track use (they will fade quickly and wear out over the course of a weekend under moderate speed/ability). When we mounted our Forgelines wearing Hoosier R7's, both the RS29 and PFC 08 continued to perform well on the factory brakes for most of the session. We did notice some fade towards the end of the session as the oem rotors succumbed to the punishment of the high-speed nature of Road America's T1 and T5 (coming into both of which the M2 saw top speeds of 144-147mph before braking at the 300 foot marker). We had to move our braking points back about 50' to account for the increased stopping distances required from the maxed out oem rotors and calipers.

We found the wear between the RS29 and PFC 08 to be about the same. Both are endurance compounds designed to give up some initial bite in exchange for longer wear of both the pads and rotors. The PFC08's provided better initial bite at the cost of ease of modulation as they were more difficult to apply smoothly for lighter braking zones. The Pagid RS29's provided a very smooth application and release but did require greater pedal pressure to attain the same level of initial bite as the PFC 08's. Overall they both worked much better then oem pads on the track but with different characteristics to suit individual driving styles. You can find additional information on the products we used here;
PFC 08's: http://competitionmotorsport.com/per...-f8x-m2-m3-m4/
Pagid RS29's: http://competitionmotorsport.com/per...ase-comp-2016/
CMS RF1 Brake Fluid: http://competitionmotorsport.com/com...-fluid-500-ml/

PM or give us a ring at 844.438.7244 and let us know how we can help.

[Twt]

Originally Posted by CompetitionMotorsport

We just got back from a weekend at Road America and one of the cars we took with us was our shop M2. We ran both Pagid RS29 and PFC08 pads on stock brakes with our RF1 racing brake fluid. With stock wheels and street tires (Michelin Super Sports), the oem brake setup with either the Pagid or PFC pads worked great with no fade. You don't want to use the oem pads for any track use (they will fade quickly and wear out over the course of a weekend under moderate speed/ability). When we mounted our Forgelines wearing Hoosier R7's, both the RS29 and PFC 08 continued to perform well on the factory brakes for most of the session. We did notice some fade towards the end of the session as the oem rotors succumbed to the punishment of the high-speed nature of Road America's T1 and T5 (coming into both of which the M2 saw top speeds of 144-147mph before braking at the 300 foot marker). We had to move our braking points back about 50' to account for the increased stopping distances required from the maxed out oem rotors and calipers.

We found the wear between the RS29 and PFC 08 to be about the same. Both are endurance compounds designed to give up some initial bite in exchange for longer wear of both the pads and rotors. The PFC08's provided better initial bite at the cost of ease of modulation as they were more difficult to apply smoothly for lighter braking zones. The Pagid RS29's provided a very smooth application and release but did require greater pedal pressure to attain the same level of initial bite as the PFC 08's. Overall they both worked much better then oem pads on the track but with different characteristics to suit individual driving styles. You can find additional information on the products we used here;
PFC 08's: http://competitionmotorsport.com/per...-f8x-m2-m3-m4/
Pagid RS29's: http://competitionmotorsport.com/per...ase-comp-2016/
CMS RF1 Brake Fluid: http://competitionmotorsport.com/com...-fluid-500-ml/

PM or give us a ring at 844.438.7244 and let us know how we can help.

Thanks for the detailed summary.
I have over a dozen track days using the Carbotech XP 10/8 set up. These pads take a beating....at Road Atlanta the M goes over 145 (149 top) and hard brakes between the 200-250 marker for a slow left.....great initial bite and no fade. I did install homemade cooling ducts and ran Motuil 660. I have gone through 2 sets of fronts and still have 1/4 left on the rears.....original rotors still good with some spiders. I am switching the the PFC 08s for next weekend to see how they compare AND to see if I can use them on the street.

[M2 Belgium]

Just ran my first trackday ever at Clastres with the M2 with stock brake pads and rotors. I did not do more than 6 laps at a time at moderate speeds and respected cooldown. Brake feel held up ok, but now I have a light shudder when slowing down at higher speeds ( 100km/h plus). Same feeling like when ABS kicks in. Probably ruined the rotors already. Stopping power is still good though. Does.anyone now if this can go away or means swapping the pads or rotors? Can BMW be persuaded to change this under warranty or is that a hopeless case? Next for me will be the upgrade to pagids and castrol sfr.

[OLO-M2]

Originally Posted by M2 Belgium

Just ran my first trackday ever at Clastres with the M2 with stock brake pads and rotors. I did not do more than 6 laps at a time at moderate speeds and respected cooldown. Brake feel held up ok, but now I have a light shudder when slowing down at higher speeds ( 100km/h plus). Same feeling like when ABS kicks in. Probably ruined the rotors already. Stopping power is still good though. Does.anyone now if this can go away or means swapping the pads or rotors? Can BMW be persuaded to change this under warranty or is that a hopeless case? Next for me will be the upgrade to pagids and castrol sfr.

Have suffered exactly the same issue after 1 intensive day on track with Ferodo DS2500 pads. Issue disappeared after a few days but reappeared a few days ago. I suspect some irregular pads deposit on the discs.

Will try an intensive cleaning of the discs with a brush, sandpaper, and disc cleanser and hopefully it will disappear.

If not, back at BMW and ? but I wonder whether they will take this under warranty when they'll see my tires revealing clearly the track use. From what I already read on forums, several people suffered from the same issue after trackdays with oem pads. Some but not all of them (!) got free discs warranty replacement...

Keep me posted please !
I see that you are based in BE and me too. Brussels surroundings ? ?

[3Si]

Have similar issues with mine. I doubt BMW will cover it. Might have them machined if it's not too bad. Quite disappointed, and I wasn't even going all out with plenty of breaks in between runs.

[M2 Belgium]

Indeed, Antwerp region. Next week I will go to Zolder. As this is even heavier on the brakes I'm curious to see if I make the end of the day... from what I can see the pads and discs are still good. Does anyone know what the problem exactly could be? Feels to me the discs are slightly warped. Preferably I would like to drive normal roads for a decent amount of miles before going back to BMW. How long is track use visable on the tires?

[M2 Belgium]

After reading previous posts, the problem more like is uneven pad deposits on the discs. Quite disappointed the OEM system can't even handle a few very calm laps on the track. What I'm more interested in: can the uneven pad deposits disappear with normal road use, or is the only solution new pads and discs or get the discs turned?

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by Twt

Thanks for the detailed summary.
I have over a dozen track days using the Carbotech XP 10/8 set up. These pads take a beating....at Road Atlanta the M goes over 145 (149 top) and hard brakes between the 200-250 marker for a slow left.....great initial bite and no fade. I did install homemade cooling ducts and ran Motuil 660. I have gone through 2 sets of fronts and still have 1/4 left on the rears.....original rotors still good with some spiders. I am switching the the PFC 08s for next weekend to see how they compare AND to see if I can use them on the street.

How did the PFC 08s work out?

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by M2 Belgium

After reading previous posts, the problem more like is uneven pad deposits on the discs. Quite disappointed the OEM system can't even handle a few very calm laps on the track. What I'm more interested in: can the uneven pad deposits disappear with normal road use, or is the only solution new pads and discs or get the discs turned?

I have the same issue in my M2. Two days at the Glen and I have uneven pad deposits. I need a fix and a long term solution.

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by 3Si

Have similar issues with mine. I doubt BMW will cover it. Might have them machined if it's not too bad. Quite disappointed, and I wasn't even going all out with plenty of breaks in between runs.

How was your problem resolved?

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by CompetitionMotorsport

We just got back from a weekend at Road America and one of the cars we took with us was our shop M2. We ran both Pagid RS29 and PFC08 pads on stock brakes with our RF1 racing brake fluid. With stock wheels and street tires (Michelin Super Sports), the oem brake setup with either the Pagid or PFC pads worked great with no fade. You don't want to use the oem pads for any track use (they will fade quickly and wear out over the course of a weekend under moderate speed/ability). When we mounted our Forgelines wearing Hoosier R7's, both the RS29 and PFC 08 continued to perform well on the factory brakes for most of the session. We did notice some fade towards the end of the session as the oem rotors succumbed to the punishment of the high-speed nature of Road America's T1 and T5 (coming into both of which the M2 saw top speeds of 144-147mph before braking at the 300 foot marker). We had to move our braking points back about 50' to account for the increased stopping distances required from the maxed out oem rotors and calipers.

We found the wear between the RS29 and PFC 08 to be about the same. Both are endurance compounds designed to give up some initial bite in exchange for longer wear of both the pads and rotors. The PFC08's provided better initial bite at the cost of ease of modulation as they were more difficult to apply smoothly for lighter braking zones. The Pagid RS29's provided a very smooth application and release but did require greater pedal pressure to attain the same level of initial bite as the PFC 08's. Overall they both worked much better then oem pads on the track but with different characteristics to suit individual driving styles. You can find additional information on the products we used here;
PFC 08's: http://competitionmotorsport.com/per...-f8x-m2-m3-m4/
Pagid RS29's: http://competitionmotorsport.com/per...ase-comp-2016/
CMS RF1 Brake Fluid: http://competitionmotorsport.com/com...-fluid-500-ml/

PM or give us a ring at 844.438.7244 and let us know how we can help.

Two track days at the Glen and my OEM M2 rotors have uneven pad deposits and the resulting brake shudder. I need a short term fix for my DD time, plus I need a long term solution for my track days. Thoughts?

[3Si]

Originally Posted by rich8566

How was your problem resolved?

It's a little better now. Will probably swap for some better suitable pads for the next track day. RS29 might be too loud as I'm not looking to swap them out for each event... So maybe Hawk 60?

[jritt@essex]

I would expect to see uneven pad deposits when running the OEM pads or Ferodo DS2500 on the front of the car. Those pads are not designed for road course use on the front of a heavy, fast car! You need the proper tools for the job, which are racing/track pads with a higher max operating temperature. You will melt and smear a street pad on the discs when you run them up past their max operating temp.

The most popular combination among our big brake kit customers is to use Ferodo DS2500 for sport driving, mated to Ferodo DS1.11 (moderate mu) or DSUNO (higher mu) for track use. The great thing about this combo is that both compounds are made from the same core materials. As such, you don't need to completely re-bed your discs every time you go from street to track and back. Not only do they work well in their respective environments, they make the whole experience a lot less labor-intensive.

Ferodo DS2500 for the Front M2 OEM Calipers

Ferodo DS1.11 for the Front M2 OEM Calipers

Ferodo DSUNO for the Front M2 OEM Calipers


Ferodo DS2500 for the Rear M2 OEM Calipers

Ferodo DS1.11 for the Rear M2 OEM Calipers

Ferodo DSUNO for the Rear M2 OEM Calipers

When running pads from different manufacturers, you really need to carefully manage your pads and discs to avoid judder/vibration. In the video below I demonstrate how to do so. One never knows how two different materials will 'play' on the disc face. Sometimes they interact okay, but other times they make a total mess!

How to Between Street and Track Pads:

[CosmosMpower]

Hawk DTC 60 or 70 have worked great on my M2

[OLO-M2]

Thank you JRITT !
Do you think that my discs are now dead or can I recover them with some steel wool and sandpaper ?

[M2 Belgium]

Same question here, can the discs be recovered or is a swap needed? Is it advisable to swap pads my self as a non mechanic?