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      02-05-2016, 10:26 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
In further response to your curiosity, i got a video and literature about the development of the E46 when I bought mine back in 2001 and in this documentary they showed a dyno at the end of assembly and stated "every BMW is tested to ensure it meets its specified power.." Something like that. They show the pull and the computer with instruments measuring power output. Then the car gets released. I think they now test the motors before they go in to save on production delays, not sure but really cool.
I completely agree with you. Although I would like to address that going over 5,500 rpm immediately is not the smartest move, I think. Built it up slightly and make sure the engine is warm/hot with all fluids on operating temperature before even consider doing your process.

Other than that, I think it is a bit bullshit what is in the manual. I feel the truth is in the middle between you and the manual. Just use your brain when considering using the engine the first few times. What I definitely would not do is put your car on a dyno or tune it within the first 5,000 kms. Give that engines some time to run in properly.

And yes there is a dyno at the end of every production cycle with a full test cycle testing ABS, engine, brakes, etc. Seen many production lines doing that, and I can check it for you when I am in Leipzig soon.

MR

Last edited by MR.; 02-05-2016 at 10:43 AM..
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      02-05-2016, 10:51 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RingMeister01
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Originally Posted by F1zbo
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Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post

FYI you do know that before any cars leaves the BMW factory ill go through a dyno pull...right?
Really? Where can I get more details regarding this? Are there any offical statements from BMW regarding this?
I would guess not as it would contradict the break in procedure described in the manual.

BR
In further response to your curiosity, i got a video and literature about the development of the E46 when I bought mine back in 2001 and in this documentary they showed a dyno at the end of assembly and stated "every BMW is tested to ensure it meets its specified power.." Something like that. They show the pull and the computer with instruments measuring power output. Then the car gets released. I think they now test the motors before they go in to save on production delays, not sure but really cool.
I'm curious if there is something to this. I don't think low RPM full Load pull's is something I would do. The ring compression is a real thing, I wonder if that can be done without going nuts.
Bike engines and race engines are fairly different than road car engines, tolerances, they are generally "looser" setups.

I'm aware of the Hard Break In Method that is very popular among the bike crowd. I wish we could see a proper, non biased conversation between engineers.
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      02-05-2016, 04:39 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
You have to load the engine guys. Full throttle on and off to compress and seat the rings of the piston. Those of you who are "babying" your break-ins are doing irreparable harm to your pistons. You'll experience better gas milage and power if you vary your engine speeds and load the motor. For example, hit the highway and do 40 - 80 mph pulls at full throttle at low, mid and then higher rpm's maybe 10 times. Do an oil change and you'RE done. Thats the break-in.


FYI you do know that before any cars leaves the BMW factory ill go through a dyno pull...right?
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      02-05-2016, 09:24 PM   #26
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So how's 130mph on the Autobahn for break-in? I'll vary the engine load with 60-130 pulls.
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      02-05-2016, 09:30 PM   #27
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Do we still follow the advice to keep the RPMs under 5500? as previously stated?
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      02-06-2016, 06:35 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by dammitcubs
Do we still follow the advice to keep the RPMs under 5500? as previously stated?
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
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      02-06-2016, 09:45 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
Nice article.

I have a question though. He states that synthetic is bad during break in because it is too "slippery". What are your thoughts on that and do you use conventional oil during break in?

It also says that 80% of the break in happens in the first 20 miles or 1 hr of running. How do we make sure that the dealer doesn't let the car idle for 30 minutes?
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      02-06-2016, 09:53 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
Nice article.

I have a question though. He states that synthetic is bad during break in because it is too "slippery". What are your thoughts on that and do you use conventional oil during break in?

It also says that 80% of the break in happens in the first 20 miles or 1 hr of running. How do we make sure that the dealer doesn't let the car idle for 30 minutes?
Just call the dealer like I do and ask "when you get the car please don't drive or touch it." My dealer is the sh*t. They never have a problem with my "strange" requests.

Using non synthetic will pick up all the micro bits from motor but that tactic is useless in our case because the factory already fills with synthetic. That's more of a suggestion when you build or rebuild a motor.

As for the first 20 miles, yes I think that's on point.
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      02-06-2016, 11:06 AM   #31
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I read his page (which is the most crap looking page with wonderful information I've ever read), and there is definitely an angle to his story, but I am not convinced yet...

The main problem which I have with the story written on his page is the fact that he talks about motorcycles. OK I know he states it's also for car engines, still most of the story is related to motorcycles, and as far as I know they are not turbocharged like a M2 and do have differences in their behavior, rev range, etc. (but feel free to correct me if I am wrong, I am not a motorcycle expert)

Secondly, his story does not touch on the point of warranty and internal computers checking how you are driving your brand new car! I can start pushing like he suggests but if I violate what is written in the manual I might be in trouble with my warranty. Not everyone's dealer is so friendly!

Thirdly, he does not discuss the impact of the car dyno at the end of the production line or the engine dyno at the end of the engine production line. If the first 20 miles are so important, what is the impact of the dynos at the factory or even the truck driver moving the car on a truck or a ferry. Oh and let's not forget the dealer driving it around as well when they do their PDI.

Additionally, I think that the story of the user manual is one which offers a lot of room to play. Especially, because other sports car brands say different things when it comes to their engines. Of course, they might use different production and testing techniques, still some of them allow more room to play!

I think I really think that putting a considerable amount of load on the engine when it is warm will not harm the engine as long as you graduale built up the load over the kilometers. I cannot believe that putting an immense amount of load on a brand new engine is smart! Definitely not when we a control box is checking my braking and throttle behavior. There are too many sensors in a current engine.

In the end I feel that staying in the middle grey area is the best thing to do. Just drive the car normally, make sure it warms up completely before you are going for it, stay under the 5,500 rpm mark in the first hundreds of kilometers (because that could well be a measuring point for the engine telemetry) and give it more push more kilometers you drive it. This might be a lot better than pushing it on these short runs possible inflicting a marker in the car's computer, which the dealer sees when it does the service.

I would prefer staying at the safe side then trying something which is unproven on your particular car, written by a guy somewhere in the U.S. with an opinion (which I do request) and might bring more harm than happiness. And as my tuner with 40 years experience in the racing, tuning and production of road and racing cars said;

"Everyone has his own opinion about the break-in period, and they all think they are right. We use good oil and molykote A, and run brand new engines with low load and variable RPM for hours and hours on a dyno. For new cars from a production line it can easily be totally different due to all kind of circumstances impacting the breaking in period before the car is handed to the owner. Just do what you think is right for your particular case. In the end, the manual is your leading guide to keeping your warranty when something does go wrong."

MR

Last edited by MR.; 02-06-2016 at 11:12 AM..
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      02-07-2016, 01:44 AM   #32
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You can drive it home for sure. Just don't set the cruise control and forget it, you have to consciously mix things up to vary the speed and other conditions. Every person who does Euro delivery faces this exact same issue.
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      02-07-2016, 01:49 AM   #33
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I always love the guys who have alternate ways of breaking an engine in, I have read all kinds of crap over the years. Why anyone would pay 50-60k for a car that was designed by a group of engineers and then ignore their guidance on breaking it in is really interesting to me. I have no problem with them doing whatever they want to their cars but I don't think it is right to provide their opinions as factual statements.
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      02-07-2016, 12:43 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pruettfan
I always love the guys who have alternate ways of breaking an engine in, I have read all kinds of crap over the years. Why anyone would pay 50-60k for a car that was designed by a group of engineers and then ignore their guidance on breaking it in is really interesting to me. I have no problem with them doing whatever they want to their cars but I don't think it is right to provide their opinions as factual statements.
Kind of like the idiots that change out the factory intake, exhaust, wheels, break pads, suspension, exhaust, fuel mapping...
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      02-07-2016, 12:46 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
Just call the dealer like I do and ask "when you get the car please don't drive or touch it." My dealer is the sh*t. They never have a problem with my "strange" requests.
Your car is already driven out of the factory, around the factory parking space, loaded on and off a freighter and then loaded on a truck for transportation. It already has a run time of 1h when the dealer gets it.
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      02-07-2016, 12:54 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by metrickid
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Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
Just call the dealer like I do and ask "when you get the car please don't drive or touch it." My dealer is the sh*t. They never have a problem with my "strange" requests.
Your car is already driven out of the factory, around the factory parking space, loaded on and off a freighter and then loaded on a truck for transportation. It already has a run time of 1h when the dealer gets it.
They do yes. And they zip around every moment.
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      02-07-2016, 01:22 PM   #37
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A 1200 mile break in is roughly 120 hours or more for most drivers, not sure 1 hour of that at speeds under 20 mph make your point.
How slow do you drive?
My cars usually have a average speed of 65km/h, and with that speed it takes about 30h to reach 2 000km.
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      02-07-2016, 01:28 PM   #38
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How slow do you drive?
My cars usually have a average speed of 65km/h, and with that speed it takes about 30h to reach 2 000km.
Thats what happens when I do the math in my head. Your right.
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      02-07-2016, 05:58 PM   #39
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Where can i find the manual? I tried the app but it didn't have the M2. My SA only gave me the chassis number not the full VIN. THX in advance
Check bullet point #8 of the first section: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1201088

Or: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...26&postcount=1
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      02-08-2016, 02:48 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
Read the manual guys... It states exactly what is not allowed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
You have to load the engine guys. Full throttle on and off to compress and seat the rings of the piston. Those of you who are "babying" your break-ins are doing irreparable harm to your pistons. You'll experience better gas milage and power if you vary your engine speeds and load the motor. For example, hit the highway and do 40 - 80 mph pulls at full throttle at low, mid and then higher rpm's maybe 10 times. Do an oil change and you'RE done. Thats the break-in.


FYI you do know that before any cars leaves the BMW factory ill go through a dyno pull...right?
This 'break in' period always confuses me as there are so many theories. I've had a number of new cars and always driven pretty sedately and stuck to the break in guidelines for the first 1500 kms or so, whether this is best i don't know.

Ringmeister you mention 'full throttle' is good for break in, which i have heard before, however in the guidelines that MR posted it states 'Avoid full load', is full load & full throttle the same thing? this is why i get so confused. lol

The first month or so of new car ownership is always the most stressful for me as i don't want engine issues or extreme oil usage down the track due to a bad 'break in period'.

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      02-08-2016, 07:54 PM   #41
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Porsche GT boss Andreas Preuninger on Porsche break-in, during a video presentation last Autumn, as reported by someone on Rennlist (http://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/90228...e-rules.html):
"I videoed AP's presentation, and here is what he said:
«I can only tell you how I personally do it, or how we do it at Weissach – for the first 500 kilometres or 300 miles, we don’t drive that car car ever over 5000 rpm, never. From then on, every 200 kilometres, we up the rpms by 500, so we end up at 1300, 1400 kilometres at the threshold before we can really go full throttle, at 800 or 900 miles.»
He then went on that this procedure was really important for the GT3 RS engines given their more «delicate» rings - and how important this break in really is for any of their engines.
Another point - he recommended to realign the car after 1000-1500 miles due to settling - especially since the tires are getting bigger and bigger, and more sensitive to changes. The RS apparently is really sensitive around this.
You figure the head of the GT program would give you the straight goods."
Preuninger also pointed out that people driving their GT4 or GT3 straight from the dealership to the track are hurting their cars.

GT3 or RS ? Follow a break-in procedure ! Maybe not as slow as the manual says, Preuninger pointed out, but low revs for the first 750 miles or so, and then increment them up after. Preuninger confirmed that he really thinks that any Porsche engine should be broken in, but especially high rpm motors.
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      02-09-2016, 01:50 AM   #42
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Good story! Sounds plausible

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      02-09-2016, 02:36 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Porsche GT boss Andreas Preuninger on Porsche break-in, during a video presentation last Autumn, as reported by someone on Rennlist (http://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/90228...e-rules.html):
"I videoed AP's presentation, and here is what he said:
«I can only tell you how I personally do it, or how we do it at Weissach – for the first 500 kilometres or 300 miles, we don’t drive that car car ever over 5000 rpm, never. From then on, every 200 kilometres, we up the rpms by 500, so we end up at 1300, 1400 kilometres at the threshold before we can really go full throttle, at 800 or 900 miles.»
He then went on that this procedure was really important for the GT3 RS engines given their more «delicate» rings - and how important this break in really is for any of their engines.
Another point - he recommended to realign the car after 1000-1500 miles due to settling - especially since the tires are getting bigger and bigger, and more sensitive to changes. The RS apparently is really sensitive around this.
You figure the head of the GT program would give you the straight goods."
Preuninger also pointed out that people driving their GT4 or GT3 straight from the dealership to the track are hurting their cars.

GT3 or RS ? Follow a break-in procedure ! Maybe not as slow as the manual says, Preuninger pointed out, but low revs for the first 750 miles or so, and then increment them up after. Preuninger confirmed that he really thinks that any Porsche engine should be broken in, but especially high rpm motors.
Interesting read. Sounds like a good method and sortof what I have used my last 2 cars that I owned from new.

None of those cars consumed any oil between service intervals. No need for top ups that is.
One of the engines are the infamous(for oil cons,) VAG 2.0 tsi I had in a golf mk6 R. The other was a F31 328i.

I think I will follow the instructions in the manual but do a more gradual rpm increase over the run in period like suggested by Porsche.

Br
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      02-14-2016, 10:55 AM   #44
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