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      06-08-2014, 03:09 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by stealthM3 View Post
So do I. He was quick to jump to conclusion
I enjoy my N/A 400whp v8 that revs to 8400rpm. Enough said.
I never mentioned E9X M3 but since you did...same applies.
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      06-08-2014, 05:18 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by SOM3
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Originally Posted by stealthM3 View Post
So do I. He was quick to jump to conclusion
I enjoy my N/A 400whp v8 that revs to 8400rpm. Enough said.
I never mentioned E9X M3 but since you did...same applies.
That may be so in YOUR dreams, however, in MY Reality, it doesn't even come close to the last living N/A M car. Just cool down and let people have their opinions without trying to be a smart Alec. Im done here
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      06-08-2014, 08:19 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by wcaspar View Post
Not paying M price for tuned N55..
+1

Which is why I'm not considering any new M car. They ALL have variously tuned turbo, non-M engines.

Not saying I can't be swayed by an otherwise compelling package, but it would have to be substantially ahead of the alternatives for me to get no discount from prior M3 pricing for me to take a "commodity engine" worth half what an S65 costs, and get no new special features, no big discount, and lose the most special part of M - those special, soulful, magnificent engines.
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      06-08-2014, 08:50 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
I think you are mistaken about that it will NEVER happen. The focus of the M2 is track.. that is not the focus of the M4.


The M2, when released, will be BMW's highest performance car. Essentially a streetable M235i R. It will not offer the amenities, or over-all creature comforts found in the M3/4, but it will hug the road like no other and have 400ft-lbs of torque at-will..

Expect the price to sky-rocket once you start adding on secondary BMW performance parts. All three (M235i, M2 & M235i R) are meant to be the Clubsport campaign to Mimic Porsche in racing.
Have to disagree with you w3rkn, I don't know why but you are totally convinced that BMW are going to make the M2, a road car, that is focused on track use. Less than 10% of M2's will ever see a track, and BMW know this. They will not alienate 90% of their customers. If you have evidence to the contrary I'd be very interested in hearing it.

Your track car has already been built, its called the M235i R, go and buy one if you want, or buy your M2 and be prepared to do serious mods to make it competitive at the track.
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      06-08-2014, 09:04 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson View Post
Have to disagree with you w3rkn, I don't know why but you are totally convinced that BMW are going to make the M2, a road car, that is focused on track use. Less than 10% of M2's will ever see a track, and BMW know this. They will not alienate 90% of their customers. If you have evidence to the contrary I'd be very interested in hearing it.

Your track car has already been built, its called the M235i R, go and buy one if you want, or buy your M2 and be prepared to do serious mods to make it competitive at the track.

Why would you buy a M2, if it wasn't a performance track car...?

BMW already makes a bloated highway bomber(M4).. and already makes a M235i for those who don't need all the track worthiness of a M2. The M2 is also more focused than the M4... it will just not offer as many creature comforts (ie: luxury).

Ergo: More performance... M2 is about PERFORMANCE..!



If you don't need an M2, then buy a M235i... otherwise what you are buying is track worthiness.
The M235i R isn't sold in the United States and is not drivable on public roads.. but the M2 will be. It just won't have a roll cage and other safety/track amenities. But make no mistake, the focus for the M2 is track. Otherwise it would be competing directly with the M4.. and the M2 is lighter & better handling..

So.. it's focus will remain on racing and track, leaving the M4 for luxo-bombing.
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      06-08-2014, 01:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
So.. it's focus will remain on racing and track, leaving the M4 for luxo-bombing.
I think M4 will be fastest BMW around the track of all in the line up. We'll soon find out. I'm not certain about the upcoming M2 but it'll be faster than 1M, M235 for sure.


Pretty good for luxo-bomber.
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      06-08-2014, 02:32 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOM3 View Post
I think M4 will be fastest BMW around the track of all in the line up. We'll soon find out. I'm not certain about the upcoming M2 but it'll be faster than 1M, M235 for sure.


Pretty good for luxo-bomber.
Not if the M2 gets exactly the same engine as the M4.
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      06-08-2014, 03:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Not if the M2 gets exactly the same engine as the M4.
That is true.
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      06-08-2014, 05:24 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson View Post
Have to disagree with you w3rkn, I don't know why but you are totally convinced that BMW are going to make the M2, a road car, that is focused on track use. Less than 10% of M2's will ever see a track, and BMW know this. They will not alienate 90% of their customers. If you have evidence to the contrary I'd be very interested in hearing it.

Your track car has already been built, its called the M235i R, go and buy one if you want, or buy your M2 and be prepared to do serious mods to make it competitive at the track.

Why would you buy a M2, if it wasn't a performance track car...?

BMW already makes a bloated highway bomber(M4).. and already makes a M235i for those who don't need all the track worthiness of a M2. The M2 is also more focused than the M4... it will just not offer as many creature comforts (ie: luxury).

Ergo: More performance... M2 is about PERFORMANCE..!



If you don't need an M2, then buy a M235i... otherwise what you are buying is track worthiness.
The M235i R isn't sold in the United States and is not drivable on public roads.. but the M2 will be. It just won't have a roll cage and other safety/track amenities. But make no mistake, the focus for the M2 is track. Otherwise it would be competing directly with the M4.. and the M2 is lighter & better handling..

So.. it's focus will remain on racing and track, leaving the M4 for luxo-bombing.
Not sure where all the it is a track focused machine is coming from, can you share your information source ?
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      06-08-2014, 05:26 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Not if the M2 gets exactly the same engine as the M4.
Which it won't.
It's a modified N55: N55B30T0. The T0 designation is what separates it from a regular N55. It is not yet publicly known what the changes the M division have done. Hopefully the changes include a turbo that can flow more than the regular N55, and stronger internal bits in the bottom end of the engine - crank, rods, pistons. I'm sure the stock boost targets will be higher to suit the current output figure claims - which can be done with the existing regular N55 turbo. However, without a larger turbo, there's significantly less aftermarket headroom for easy power increase.

The new M3 and M4 have the S55B30.

Last edited by bitcore; 06-08-2014 at 05:35 PM.
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      06-09-2014, 11:06 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Not if the M2 gets exactly the same engine as the M4.
I don't think BMW will allow that. This is similar to Cayman neutering if you ask me...

You will get a morphed N55 with enough changes to make the 375ish power in a reliable manner - I doubt it will get all the goodies of the S55.

I would love to be wrong though.
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      06-09-2014, 11:07 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitcore View Post
Which it won't.
It's a modified N55: N55B30T0. The T0 designation is what separates it from a regular N55. It is not yet publicly known what the changes the M division have done. Hopefully the changes include a turbo that can flow more than the regular N55, and stronger internal bits in the bottom end of the engine - crank, rods, pistons. I'm sure the stock boost targets will be higher to suit the current output figure claims - which can be done with the existing regular N55 turbo. However, without a larger turbo, there's significantly less aftermarket headroom for easy power increase.

The new M3 and M4 have the S55B30.
You beat me to it, and said it better.
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      06-09-2014, 11:30 AM   #35
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We can have it both way's and should be able to configure "OUR" M2 as we see fit if the options are available...I for one will NEVER track my car...does that mean i should not buy a M2...BS !!..IMO most M2 will not see the track and some of us by M cars for there LOOKS as well as performance..Some even buy M cars for other reasons...like me who will " POSSIBLY " be buying one with a cloth top...remember those??...I no a convertable will never look as nice as a coupe but when i put the top down on my Miata it is bliss on a nice sunny day or even overcast for that matter and amazing view of the stars at night...I actually almost feel sorry now for most drivers in there hardtop cars not being able to enjoy the surrounding like i do in a convert....yea, maybe its me but there is something enlightening, and special to be one with nature and the road at the same time and for me the looks and balance of a M car..especially the M2 will be in my driveway and i will be very very happy man!! Listening BMW....let this M car be a M car for ALL...give us some options to keep everyone happy..This may be the last "SMALL" M car for many years to come...The M3/M4 are just to big! Indeed, some us will never see the track in our M's....

***It will be VERY VERY hard waiting an extra year possibly for a convertable....so most likely there is good chance i would buy the coupe but will see....Coupes are alway's so much sexier than the verts but damn...with the top down it's nirvana.
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      06-10-2014, 11:02 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennu
I really hope they do this but honestly they don't need to go pass 400HP. 375-380 is all they need to be competitive. I always thought they could go bold and make this with more power to weight than the new F80/F83 m3/m4 but I think a lot of people will not be happy about that.

Let's look at what BMW has said about the M235i vs the 1M to get some perspective of what the new M2 could be like.
Klaus Froehlich, Senior Vice President Brand and product Strategies at BMW said it's already faster than a 1M on the Nurburgring. That's faster than 8:15. The E92 did it in 8:05 which is a 10 second difference.
Adding more 78+ hp to the M2 vs M235i with better suspension, making it lighter and adding better brakes and internals will make the M2 even faster than the E92 M3 and possibly beating the F82M4 as well. THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

What they could do is make it as fast as an E92 M3 so they will prob only need to add about 50 more HP, lose 100 pounds, add wider tires with all the other M goodies to achieve that.

I'd be happy if it's just as fast as an E92 M3 but more nimble and easier to toss around.
Hmmm. Not to start a controversy but I have yet to have a stock e92 M3 out run my stock135is on the track. I'm not saying I'm faster. I'm just saying it hasn't happened yet and I've had direct 1:1 competition with a couple M3s at HPDEs. We've always been neck and neck with no one pulling against the other car. We then swap lead and tail car and again no one pulls against the other. Maybe it's that the 135is has slightly more torque than the e92. In any event I have no doubt that an M2 will out perform an e92 m3 especially since all evidence to date shows that the 235 is faster than the 135is. Will it beat an F82M4. Don't know?..
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      06-27-2014, 10:40 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
Why would you buy a M2, if it wasn't a performance track car...?

BMW already makes a bloated highway bomber(M4).. and already makes a M235i for those who don't need all the track worthiness of a M2. The M2 is also more focused than the M4... it will just not offer as many creature comforts (ie: luxury).

Ergo: More performance... M2 is about PERFORMANCE..!



If you don't need an M2, then buy a M235i... otherwise what you are buying is track worthiness.
The M235i R isn't sold in the United States and is not drivable on public roads.. but the M2 will be. It just won't have a roll cage and other safety/track amenities. But make no mistake, the focus for the M2 is track. Otherwise it would be competing directly with the M4.. and the M2 is lighter & better handling..

So.. it's focus will remain on racing and track, leaving the M4 for luxo-bombing.
It funny how you think you know so much about a car that we know basically nothing about. Also, the M4 is a bloated luxury car? Have you seen the numbers that car is putting down? It's completely obliterating all records set by the E93 M3, which is a highly respected car. I can assure you that the M2 will not beat the M4 on the track. BMW just will not let that happen, and that makes the M4 the better track car. So from my perspective, it seems that there may be a bit of rationalization going on here.
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      06-30-2014, 05:41 PM   #38
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Yikes. Just jumping into the fray to say that I completely disagree with the comments earlier about the M235i looking pedestrian. I'm still in Europe right now (Brussels, Belgium as of typing this) and I assure you I am getting lots of looks and kids taking pictures whenever I go. It's a beautiful car, and I'm sure the M2 will look even more wicked.
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      07-01-2014, 11:21 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverDriven View Post
It funny how you think you know so much about a car that we know basically nothing about. Also, the M4 is a bloated luxury car? Have you seen the numbers that car is putting down? It's completely obliterating all records set by the E93 M3, which is a highly respected car. I can assure you that the M2 will not beat the M4 on the track. BMW just will not let that happen, and that makes the M4 the better track car. So from my perspective, it seems that there may be a bit of rationalization going on here.
M4 is MASSIVE...
M2 is Proper.


What car was better handling, the 1M, or the M3..?
What new car will handle better the M2, or the M4 ..?

Coincidentally, & if you didn't notice the M4 has a LUXURY focus on it..., which doesn't make it as focused of a car. Additionally, there is no M435i, or a M435i R either, like there is a m235i Racing. Further illustrating the 2 Series dominance in racing & track over the bloated 4-series.


What the point of an M2, if not to offer BMW's premier track car? With M235i and R fit snugly on each side. The M2 will be BMW's clubsport.
The M4 doesn't fit that role.



BTW..
Lawyers buy an M4, Trackaholics will buy a M2.
If you don't get it, it's OK. BMW might tune it so many people's ego can take the abuse.
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      07-01-2014, 03:14 PM   #40
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You keep on overlooking the fact that when the M2 is launched the M3 and M4 will be two years from launch in late 2013. By the time the M2 arrives on the market late Spring 2016 it will be two years since M3 and M4 market introduction that they will be close to progress in whatever they choose to do to progress the cars further. ( Competition Package or progressive model)

Which allows for space for the M2. BMW done the same with the M5 , two years after official launch (European markets only). With the Competition Packet.
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      07-01-2014, 03:19 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26
You keep on overlooking the fact that when the M2 is launched the M3 and M4 will be two years from launch in late 2013. By the time the M2 arrives on the market late Spring 2016 it will be two years since M3 and M4 market introduction that they will be close to progress in whatever they choose to do to progress the cars further. ( Competition Package or progressive model)

Which allows for space for the M2. BMW done the same with the M5 , two years after official launch (European markets only). With the Competition Packet.
I'm hoping for an M2 competition package after two years into It's debut. I really want a CSL model but it will never come to the states anyway so kinda moot for me.
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      07-01-2014, 03:41 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennu View Post
I'm hoping for an M2 competition package after two years into It's debut. I really want a CSL model but it will never come to the states anyway so kinda moot for me.
I'd love an S55 to go with my S52. Nonetheless, I'm looking forward to a possible second year production 2017 M2 no matter what letter they put in front of the motor. It would be a nice upgrade to my 135is without being too bloated.
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      07-01-2014, 03:54 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennu View Post
I'm hoping for an M2 competition package after two years into It's debut. I really want a CSL model but it will never come to the states anyway so kinda moot for me.
Even if I agree with you that an M2 CSL would be stellar, I have to confess that I am quite sure it will not going to happen in the near future.
Although it would make much more sense to start off with 2 series, if you want to go real lightweight ... I expect BMW to hold on to the M3/M4 because of its greater heritage, when planning a CSL/GTS...
But sometime BMW will realize it and will base track special models on the more suitable 2 series basis
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      07-01-2014, 06:56 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Bennu View Post
I'm hoping for an M2 competition package after two years into It's debut.
I would hold out for that...

Until then, I'm going to continue down the expensive and never-ending path of turning my 335i into a sleeper M3-chaser ; )
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