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      08-18-2014, 03:41 PM   #1
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Will M2 make the M4 obsolete?

I think it will.
If the M2 lives up to its potential, the only reason anybody would buy the M4 is as a status symbol because it will cost more. And those kind of douchebags can't be helped.

No really: The M2 will be what the M3 (now M4) used to be before it got fat and bloated, picked up extra doors, and went chasing the Bentley GT crowd, which is more interested in "I have the coolest car" rather than its actual performance.

Thoughts?
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      08-18-2014, 03:42 PM   #2
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Hell no
M4 remains the sexier/luxurious M coupe

Have you seen one in person? My god its sex on wheels

Also...afterall the money all goes to the same corporate bank account so it doesnt matter
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      08-18-2014, 03:49 PM   #3
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It is a beautiful car, no doubt, but I look to the M series for pure performance and performance alone.
I don't want an M car for luxury. I want it for performance. Maybe I am in the minority, but looks take a back seat to performance and "luxury" gets stuffed in the boot behind the back seat.

The last generation M3 coupe was far sexier than the 1M, but I would have taken a 1M over the M3 any day of the week and twice on Sundays. In fact I tried, but couldn't get one.

That, and I think the M2 is going to be crazy-good-looking.
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      08-18-2014, 03:50 PM   #4
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Dude...the new m3/4 performance is insanely good

the M2 will not dissappoint either
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      08-18-2014, 03:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ska///235i View Post
Dude...the new m3/4 performance is insanely good

the M2 will not dissappoint either
I haven't driven the new M3/M4 yet, but I don't doubt that its performance is great. The M2 will also have amazing performance.

I guess my point is this: the M2 will be the real spiritual successor to the iconic M3s: smaller, lighter, more intensely driver-focused, without all the bloat that has plagued the BMW lineup over the last 15 years with each new model getting bigger and heavier than its predecessor.

I am willing to bet that once it comes out, comparison reviews by driving enthusiasts will point to the M2 as the one to have. It will most likely be more balanced, more tossable, more raw, and ultimately more fun.
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      08-18-2014, 04:04 PM   #6
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Do people stop buying the M6 because of the M4? yes some. Will people stop buying the M4 because of the M2? Yes some, but not enough to really make a big difference. Obsolete? Hell no.
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      08-18-2014, 04:17 PM   #7
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Also every enthusiast has different needs
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      08-18-2014, 04:56 PM   #8
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Difference between M4 and M6 is larger than it will be between M4 and M2. If M2 would get all M4 parts and leather dash, yes the M4 would be completely obsolete. Yet some would buy it because 2 < 4.
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      08-18-2014, 05:34 PM   #9
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The purpose of both models is to make a profit for BMW shareholders.

BMW is quite adept at differentiating models so they don't cannibalize sales.

Therefore, I am fairly confident that the M2 will not render the M4 obsolete.

Performance comparisons are an entirely different, and premature, discussion.
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      08-18-2014, 05:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k View Post
I think it will.
If the M2 lives up to its potential, the only reason anybody would buy the M4 is as a status symbol because it will cost more. And those kind of douchebags can't be helped.

No really: The M2 will be what the M3 (now M4) used to be before it got fat and bloated, picked up extra doors, and went chasing the Bentley GT crowd, which is more interested in "I have the coolest car" rather than its actual performance.

Thoughts?
Wow. Thoughts?

1. Performance isn't everything. Even fun factor is only one of many ways we value a car. If performance is all that's important to you, you're looking at the wrong cars.

2. Your simplistic notion that performance = value is exactly why BMW won't build the M2 you'd like them to.

It's your attitude, and your assumption that anyone who buys an M4 is a "douchebag" if the M2 is as quick, that guarantees BMW will never make the M2 as quick.

You ignore comfort, space, practicality, high speed cruising, etc. You focus exclusively on one area, judge anyone else who doesn't, and in doing so screw it up for the rest of us. Your thinking is why Porsche makes record profits adding 10 hp at a time with software programming and charging thousands for it, when in reality it'd be cheaper and easier to simply fit everything with the bigger 3.8S motor. Your thinking is why we'll get a "watered down" M2, when fitting the M3/4 motor would be easy. Your focus on performance numbers is one of the reasons we've lots a manual transmission option on Porsche GT cars, and will soon lose the option on BMWs as well.

There is plenty of room for all types of great sports cars and GT cars, each focused on doing different things well, to coexist. If we let them.
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      08-18-2014, 05:52 PM   #11
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No, there's a huge market for both cars.
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      08-18-2014, 06:08 PM   #12
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Who says we can't have all of them!
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      08-18-2014, 06:55 PM   #13
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The M2 will be the new M3.
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      08-18-2014, 08:00 PM   #14
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Will the 4 series Gran Coupe make the 3 series redundant? Or the X4/6 do the same to the X3/5?

No. They are different cars catering to different markets and demographics. Both will co-exist and do well.
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      08-18-2014, 08:00 PM   #15
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I would like to see this too. M3/4 has gotten too big and bloated. The powertrain (S55) is very appealing to me, nearly perfect. But I can't stand what they've wrapped it in. It's a shame that motor won't see it's real potential shoved inside the bloated platform of the 3/4 series.

M2 *should* be what the M4 is supposed to be before it got fat.

Personally, I think BMW basically tossed all that "heritage" and "history" when they changed the name. M4 is new, it has no history, therefore it doesn't need to have any pre-conceived ideas of what it should be. Theres no reason why the M4 has to be "the" premium model and the M2 should be deliberately handicapped in order to not steal the thunder of the M4. I think they should be promoting the M2 as the proper successor to the M3 and all of it's history and cachet...

They probably won't though, and they will probably lose me as a customer if they do. But they probably don't care about that. Me buying or not buying is a drop in the bucket to them. Oh well, back to looking at Caymans, I guess.
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      08-18-2014, 08:25 PM   #16
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Given the current size of the BMW models (bigger and heavier) they need to be build an ultra street version that has track DNA. The M3/M4 are just too long and heavy to be the ultimate driving machine image. EVO Magazine showed recently that the lighter less horsepower 911 is a faster track car than the M3/M4. The secret ingredient of suspension and less weight makes the truly best sports car.

If BMW was to build the M2 with only 375 HP, but upgraded the suspension/handling and get the weight as close 3000 lbs as possible then they would have a serious driver's car again. Go one step further and follow Porsches upcoming lead and make the Z4M as light as the Porsche 718 for the ultimate sports roadster. That way you leave the all the other M cars in a category of their own while creating a new one.
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      08-18-2014, 08:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delnari View Post
Given the current size of the BMW models (bigger and heavier) they need to be build an ultra street version that has track DNA. The M3/M4 are just too long and heavy to be the ultimate driving machine image. EVO Magazine showed recently that the lighter less horsepower 911 is a faster track car than the M3/M4. The secret ingredient of suspension and less weight makes the truly best sports car.

If BMW was to build the M2 with only 375 HP, but upgraded the suspension/handling and get the weight as close 3000 lbs as possible then they would have a serious driver's car again. Go one step further and follow Porsches upcoming lead and make the Z4M as light as the Porsche 718 for the ultimate sports roadster. That way you leave the all the other M cars in a category of their own while creating a new one.
I would very much like to see this, but we won't. The M2 will be handicapped just like the Cayman is so that it doesn't step on the toes of the M4. The fact that they aren't putting the S55 in it proves that. Maybe I will be wrong and they will make an amazing light, fast coupe that kills it on the track, but I think what we are going to get is a slightly better feeling, performance limited M4 in the new M2.

That doesn't mean I won't buy it, but it could be more. Of course, the M235 is already so fast that its limits cannot be safely explored outside a track. The true M cars are that much faster and approaching their limits outside a track environment is even more criminally irresponsible. Even so, I'll bet less than 50% of all M cars ever see a track. Makes me wonder why people who don't track them buy them.
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      08-18-2014, 09:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennu View Post
Do people stop buying the M6 because of the M4? yes some. Will people stop buying the M4 because of the M2? Yes some, but not enough to really make a big difference. Obsolete? Hell no.
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      08-18-2014, 10:07 PM   #19
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IMO, the new M3/M4 look very nice but they are just a tad too big. That's just me though. If they come out with a 2 series grancoupe or an M2 grancoupe it is game over. I would be on that thing faster than flies on shit. In the age of cars getting bigger with every new iteration, I find the 2 series to be a very good size.
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      08-19-2014, 12:11 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernstem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delnari View Post
Given the current size of the BMW models (bigger and heavier) they need to be build an ultra street version that has track DNA. The M3/M4 are just too long and heavy to be the ultimate driving machine image. EVO Magazine showed recently that the lighter less horsepower 911 is a faster track car than the M3/M4. The secret ingredient of suspension and less weight makes the truly best sports car.

If BMW was to build the M2 with only 375 HP, but upgraded the suspension/handling and get the weight as close 3000 lbs as possible then they would have a serious driver's car again. Go one step further and follow Porsches upcoming lead and make the Z4M as light as the Porsche 718 for the ultimate sports roadster. That way you leave the all the other M cars in a category of their own while creating a new one.
I would very much like to see this, but we won't. The M2 will be handicapped just like the Cayman is so that it doesn't step on the toes of the M4. The fact that they aren't putting the S55 in it proves that. Maybe I will be wrong and they will make an amazing light, fast coupe that kills it on the track, but I think what we are going to get is a slightly better feeling, performance limited M4 in the new M2.

That doesn't mean I won't buy it, but it could be more. Of course, the M235 is already so fast that its limits cannot be safely explored outside a track. The true M cars are that much faster and approaching their limits outside a track environment is even more criminally irresponsible. Even so, I'll bet less than 50% of all M cars ever see a track. Makes me wonder why people who don't track them buy them.
For the same reason people buy a Ferrari lol. Because they can
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      08-19-2014, 03:01 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
Wow. Thoughts?

1. Performance isn't everything. Even fun factor is only one of many ways we value a car. If performance is all that's important to you, you're looking at the wrong cars.

2. Your simplistic notion that performance = value is exactly why BMW won't build the M2 you'd like them to.

It's your attitude, and your assumption that anyone who buys an M4 is a "douchebag" if the M2 is as quick, that guarantees BMW will never make the M2 as quick.

You ignore comfort, space, practicality, high speed cruising, etc. You focus exclusively on one area, judge anyone else who doesn't, and in doing so screw it up for the rest of us. Your thinking is why Porsche makes record profits adding 10 hp at a time with software programming and charging thousands for it, when in reality it'd be cheaper and easier to simply fit everything with the bigger 3.8S motor. Your thinking is why we'll get a "watered down" M2, when fitting the M3/4 motor would be easy. Your focus on performance numbers is one of the reasons we've lots a manual transmission option on Porsche GT cars, and will soon lose the option on BMWs as well.

There is plenty of room for all types of great sports cars and GT cars, each focused on doing different things well, to coexist. If we let them.
Wow! So everything is the fault of an anonymous poster on a car forum?

It would be more the fault of those not buying the cars they are demanding or those buying cars that should not have come out that way from factory.


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      08-19-2014, 04:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernstem View Post

Even so, I'll bet less than 50% of all M cars ever see a track. Makes me wonder why people who don't track them buy them.
Its simple really, they are not 'track' cars, they are road cars built for drivers who enjoy driving. Have you ever been in a racing car, or as you put it, 'track car'? Its a totally different beast. Nothing at all like an 'M' car.

Oh, and I can guarantee that less then 10% of M cars ever see a track! (M Racing not included)
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