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      03-05-2016, 05:42 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
I already own a knockout Porsche. I also own a fine GT car. Both of them cost significantly more than an M4. I can afford one of those too. I just want an M2, because it will be closest to what I no longer own, now that my E36 M3 has gone to its Great Reward.

And I don't give a rip about special order funky colors, inside or outside the car. Gray outside, black inside is just fine with me. There is more than one kind of target M2 customer out there.
Me.
+1.
This.
Well, I don't have a Porsche, but I have other more expensive (than the M2) cars and could get a more expensive car. The LBB with that interior works for me. Wouldn't mind a CF roof and some other stuff, but meh. It looks fun.
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      03-05-2016, 06:12 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GFK007 View Post
Would get an m2 if the lease deal didn't suck.

F80 and f82 exhaust notes are so unbelievably underwhelming.

If I was a buyer, I'd get a used cayenne GTS all day or even a 997.

For all those who are concerned with size and feel and exhaust, you can't beat a pre owned Porsche for the money.

Anyone have any interest in the Giulia or XE SVR, or am I in the wrong forum?? What about the new RS3 sedan? Too heavy? Don't like all wheel drive and the fact that it'll be an auto tranny?

Also - are people forgetting you can only get this freakin car in four colors, with interior choice being black or black. Does that not bother anyone?
I already own a knockout Porsche. I also own a fine GT car. Both of them cost significantly more than an M4. I can afford one of those too. I just want an M2, because it will be closest to what I no longer own, now that my E36 M3 has gone to its Great Reward.

And I don't give a rip about special order funky colors, inside or outside the car. Gray outside, black inside is just fine with me. There is more than one kind of target M2 customer out there.
It is rather amazing that there are people like Sassicaia and @CosmosMpower that feel like people only would want an M4 because they " can't afford " an M2.

I can't imagine being that clueless...
Using said " logic"

Apparently the only reason BMW makes a 2 series is for people that can't afford a 4 series.

And the only reason that BMW makes a 6 series is for the people that can't afford a 4 series.

And the only reason that BMW makes a 5 series is for people that can't afford a 7 series.

Apparently, it's a damn good thing we all don't make the same money or there would only be one BMW model.
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      03-05-2016, 06:13 AM   #157
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Fair enough.

It'll be a great car and a blast to drive. No doubt about that. Though I doubt it'll be better than the likes of a Cayman.

Limited color choices is a negative in my mind - as I've own BSM and MG cars and white and LBB do nothing for me.
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      03-05-2016, 08:06 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
It is rather amazing that there are people like Sassicaia and @CosmosMpower that feel like people only would want an M4 because they " can't afford " an M2.

I can't imagine being that clueless...
Using said " logic"

Apparently the only reason BMW makes a 2 series is for people that can't afford a 4 series.

And the only reason that BMW makes a 6 series is for the people that can't afford a 4 series.

And the only reason that BMW makes a 5 series is for people that can't afford a 7 series.

Apparently, it's a damn good thing we all don't make the same money or there would only be one BMW model.

I agree. I wish we lived in a completely unrealistic world where the entire BMW lineup was modular and all the components of each series could be ordered ad hoc and you could make some Frankenstein car. I never understood the correlation between car size and price and options availability.

You should be able to order the engine, the chassis, the seats, etc all independently and have BMW assemble it for you.

If you wanted to pay for a M5 engine and M4 seats and put in a M2 body you should be able to if you are willing to pay. Hell you should be able to get front parking sensors in a M2 if you wanted them and you are willing to pay too. As long as you pay for it I don't see whymitmreally matters. Give us the option.

I know this is unrealistic but Hopefully you get the point.

A completely modular system where you order what you want regardless of car size.

Don't roast me people, I know it could never happen.
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      03-05-2016, 11:45 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
It is rather amazing that there are people like Sassicaia and @CosmosMpower that feel like people only would want an M4 because they " can't afford " an M2.

I can't imagine being that clueless...
Using said " logic"

Apparently the only reason BMW makes a 2 series is for people that can't afford a 4 series.

And the only reason that BMW makes a 6 series is for the people that can't afford a 4 series.

And the only reason that BMW makes a 5 series is for people that can't afford a 7 series.

Apparently, it's a damn good thing we all don't make the same money or there would only be one BMW model.
Im talking about the main purpose BMW makes different series. Each series is not developed for every buyer from a financial perspective. The 7 series is not made for the same market as the 3 series buyer. Dont kid yourself. The main reason for different series of cars is to hit price segments in the market.

Are there buyers that are the exception to the rule? Of course there are, but exceptions dont change the rule.

X1 buyers buy the X1 mainly because they cant afford an X5. If they were both the same price no one would buy the X1 aside from the exception to the rule.

Its the same thing with M cars.

When you start to use verbiage like "the only reason" it shows that perhaps you are missing the bigger picture.
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      03-05-2016, 12:03 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
It is rather amazing that there are people like Sassicaia and @CosmosMpower that feel like people only would want an M4 because they " can't afford " an M2.

I can't imagine being that clueless...
Using said " logic"

Apparently the only reason BMW makes a 2 series is for people that can't afford a 4 series.

And the only reason that BMW makes a 6 series is for the people that can't afford a 4 series.

And the only reason that BMW makes a 5 series is for people that can't afford a 7 series.

Apparently, it's a damn good thing we all don't make the same money or there would only be one BMW model.
Im talking about the main purpose BMW makes different series. Each series is not developed for every buyer from a financial perspective. The 7 series is not made for the same market as the 3 series buyer. Dont kid yourself. The main reason for different series of cars is to hit price segments in the market.

Are there buyers that are the exception to the rule? Of course there are, but exceptions dont change the rule.

X1 buyers buy the X1 mainly because they cant afford an X5. If they were both the same price no one would buy the X1 aside from the exception to the rule.

Its the same thing with M cars.

When you start to use verbiage like "the only reason" it shows that perhaps you are missing the bigger picture.
Yep. You are definitely clueless.

I just recently bought an X1 because I sold my 2005 Expedition.


I didnt buy an X5 (sized vehicle) not because I couldn't afford it, but because i didn't want such a large vehicle and I also don't need to keep similar fuel economy. It's just me and my kiddo has gone to college.

Since you feel that buying decisions are primarily predicated on disposable income it shows that YOU are missing the larger picture.




Clueless indeed !
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      03-05-2016, 12:11 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Yep. You are definitely clueless.

I just recently bought an X1 because I sold my 2005 Expedition.


I didnt buy an X5 (sized vehicle) not because I couldn't afford it, but because i didn't want such a large vehicle and I also don't need to keep similar fuel economy. It's just me and my kiddo has gone to college.

Since you feel that buying decisions are primarily predicated on disposable income it shows that YOU are missing the larger picture.




Clueless indeed !

Again, exception to the rule.

As you go up in series you generally speaking get more luxury, performance and technology (hence the higher price point).

Am i really having this debate right now?

M3/M4 offers more in the department of performance, luxury, size and technology as such it costs more. YES there are some (small market) that prefer a smaller car or for what every reason want less performance, but the M2 is made for the market that isnt financially in the market for an M4. You are in denial if you believe other wise.

Do yo believe if all BMWs were price the same more people wouldnt buy a 7 series vs 3 series?
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      03-05-2016, 12:13 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Yep. You are definitely clueless.

I just recently bought an X1 because I sold my 2005 Expedition.


I didnt buy an X5 (sized vehicle) not because I couldn't afford it, but because i didn't want such a large vehicle and I also don't need to keep similar fuel economy. It's just me and my kiddo has gone to college.

Since you feel that buying decisions are primarily predicated on disposable income it shows that YOU are missing the larger picture.




Clueless indeed !

Again, exception to the rule.

As you go up in series you generally speaking get more luxury, performance and technology (hence the higher price point).

Am i really having this debate right now?

M3/M4 offers more in the department of performance, luxury, size and technology as such it costs more. YES there are some (small market) that prefer a smaller car or for what every reason want less performance, but the M2 is made for the market that isnt financially in the market for an M4. You are in denial if you believe other wise.

Do yo believe if all BMWs were price the same more people wouldnt buy a 7 series vs 3 series?
If you plan to explain hundreds of thousands of X1 sales as exceptions to ye rule. Then your " rule " pretty much doesn't exist.
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      03-05-2016, 12:42 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
If you plan to explain hundreds of thousands of X1 sales as exceptions to ye rule. Then your " rule " pretty much doesn't exist.
I never said the X1 wouldnt sell, or shouldnt?

It sells because BMW decided to make an product that targeted the entry level SUV (ish) market, or in other works people who couldnt afford the X3 let alone the X5. The X1 sales didnt cannibalise X5 sales
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      03-05-2016, 10:01 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
I never said the X1 wouldnt sell, or shouldnt?

It sells because BMW decided to make an product that targeted the entry level SUV (ish) market, or in other works people who couldnt afford the X3 let alone the X5. The X1 sales didnt cannibalise X5 sales
I don't deny that this market is price elastic--the higher the price, the more income enters the picture, as a general rule. But it is good to see that you acknowledge the existence of "exceptions" to that rule.

In the same vein, I do not agree that the M4/M3 necessarily, let alone obviously as you say, "offer more" than the M2. Sometimes, for some people, less is more, and quite independent of price.
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      03-06-2016, 07:51 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
I don't deny that this market is price elastic--the higher the price, the more income enters the picture, as a general rule. But it is good to see that you acknowledge the existence of "exceptions" to that rule.

In the same vein, I do not agree that the M4/M3 necessarily, let alone obviously as you say, "offer more" than the M2. Sometimes, for some people, less is more, and quite independent of price.
Let's make this simple. There is, undeniably, more COST in the M3/4, but not necessarily more VALUE. Value is subjective. Cost is not. Good?
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      03-06-2016, 09:01 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia
The M4 is a premium because you get more then you do compared to an M2. Similarly when you compare and M3 to an M5.

In reality the M2 is marketed towards people who cant afford an M4. Like all of BMW's series each one is marketing towards a segment mainly based on affordability. The 2 series is no different. IMO BMW has way diluted their brand cashing in on 1 series and 2 series markets. Its now the every mans cars vs anything exclusive it used to be.

Im not saying the M2 wouldn't be a fun car to drive and doesn't have its own merits, but it simply doesn't offer as much as the M4 does objectively speaking no matter how much people want it to.
With some searching i found a 1996 318is new price of $26k inflation adjusts to $35k in 2010 dollars which is what I paid for my lightly optioned 128i. I guess the 'brand dilution' has be going on 20+ years. When I was shopping for it, I was amazed at how sales people talked down the 1 series almost like it was a decoy used to sell a 3 series... Well the e90 was too large. I wanted something small and nimble like a e36 or e46 for autocross, just wish I could get one with a warranty. I'm so grateful BMW brought the 1/2 series here! I saw them everywhere in Europe.

I think it very difficult for the luxury, status, non-enthusiast BMW buyer to understand that the smaller less luxurious, simpler car with the lower number has more appeal to many enthusiasts.
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      03-06-2016, 09:33 PM   #167
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Is there anyone that could explain this 4.7" smaller wheelbase thing (110.7 in vs 106.0 in), which apparently allows the M2 to be more agile?
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      03-07-2016, 10:01 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
Is there anyone that could explain this 4.7" smaller wheelbase thing (110.7 in vs 106.0 in), which apparently allows the M2 to be more agile?
I dont know but a lot of people say thats why the M2 is better than the M4 but then I see some of the same people praise the longer wheelbase of the 911 R vs the standard....
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      03-07-2016, 12:49 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
I dont know but a lot of people say thats why the M2 is better than the M4 but then I see some of the same people praise the longer wheelbase of the 911 R vs the standard....
It could make it more "agile". Definitely doesn't mean it makes it more agile though.
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      03-07-2016, 01:00 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
Is there anyone that could explain this 4.7" smaller wheelbase thing (110.7 in vs 106.0 in), which apparently allows the M2 to be more agile?
The theory is that when a car turns, it rotates around an axis, a vertical line hopefully at the center of the car. A car that has a longer wheelbase has weight further from the axis therefore it takes more force to rotate that weight around the axis. The smaller the object, the faster it will spin with the same force applied. A shorter wheelbase car with with all other things being equal, should be more responsive.

My guess is the 911 R has a few additional tweaks that make it more agile than the shorter wheelbase models.
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      03-07-2016, 01:25 PM   #171
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Other than the 4.7" shorter wheelbase, everything about the car seems very similar as far as things affecting agility or nimbleness is concerned. That's why I'd like someone to explain what could possily account for that? Throttle response? One explanation that makes sense is that the preproduction M2s driven by every reviewer weighs signficant less than the 25lb difference to the M4 as quoted by BMW.
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      03-07-2016, 02:31 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
Other than the 4.7" shorter wheelbase, everything about the car seems very similar as far as things affecting agility or nimbleness is concerned. That's why I'd like someone to explain what could possily account for that? Throttle response? One explanation that makes sense is that the preproduction M2s driven by every reviewer weighs signficant less than the 25lb difference to the M4 as quoted by BMW.
I'm hoping the lighter number ends up being reality on production cars too! One things for sure DCT will fatten either car up.
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