[F87source]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

The G87 seems to be way more robust

People are tracking them completely stock with zero issues

you can track the f87 completely stock without issues too. The issues on the OG begins when you start modding, and these issues are mainly heat related. On the m2c it is crank hub related when you start pushing it.

The s58 seems to be quite good from BMW with all the previous flaws ironed out, so it doesn't need much to hit the track. Cooling is sorted, and there are no inherient weakenesses with the crank hub.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by F87source

you can track the f87 completely stock without issues too. The issues on the OG begins when you start modding, and these issues are mainly heat related. On the m2c it is crank hub related when you start pushing it.

The s58 seems to be quite good from BMW with all the previous flaws ironed out, so it doesn't need much to hit the track. Cooling is sorted, and there are no inherient weakenesses with the crank hub.

Thats great that M provided some welcome changes.

I’ve never had any issues driving my OG extremely hard, however I am running a stock tune.

[turnsignalslol]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

what were the issues?



I have seen some decent looking g87s, I had said it before that some after market parts would make the car better looking and that track builds would actually look good (just like g80), some track builds are looking really nice and the car is definitely a performer. I also think there is going to be much better aftermarket for the g87 which is kinda lacking on the f87 (at least compared to f80/82)

Exhaust camshaft tick that took over a month for BMW to fix at a dealer, leaky seals in the windows, hidden damage to front and rear bumpers, shitty paint on the front bumper which needed a respray, interior rattles that wouldn’t fix no matter what I did including taking it to the dealer, etc. etc.

I just ended up cutting my losses and moving on. In hindsight I should have just been patient and waited for a more clean example, I just got too excited and pulled the trigger and overpaid imo.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

The G87 seems to be way more robust

People are tracking them completely stock with zero issues

Originally Posted by F87source

you can track the f87 completely stock without issues too. The issues on the OG begins when you start modding, and these issues are mainly heat related. On the m2c it is crank hub related when you start pushing it.

The s58 seems to be quite good from BMW with all the previous flaws ironed out, so it doesn't need much to hit the track. Cooling is sorted, and there are no inherient weakenesses with the crank hub.

I was gonna say, the f87 is a great track car stock.

Just met a guy at the track in an OG with 160k on it and at least 10 track days a year. He had a turbo upgrade cuz his old turbo went (I mean 160k so its fair) and only had a few thing. I see a ton of comps at the track including mine, no problems. I am not the fastest but the car performs great, cooling on the comp is up to par for track work all stock (really the only thing the car needs is some pads and camber plates and thats really it). I don't think the g87 made anything better as far as track capabilities went but I think the platform has woken up some aftermarket companies to make more stuff to it, it should be a pretty popular platform for that

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by turnsignalslol

Exhaust camshaft tick that took over a month for BMW to fix at a dealer, leaky seals in the windows, hidden damage to front and rear bumpers, shitty paint on the front bumper which needed a respray, interior rattles that wouldn’t fix no matter what I did including taking it to the dealer, etc. etc.

I just ended up cutting my losses and moving on. In hindsight I should have just been patient and waited for a more clean example, I just got too excited and pulled the trigger and overpaid imo.

it happens man, I have overpaid for cars myself, sometimes you just blinded haha.

All the issues are fair but also not issues most have but when you read the forums it makes it seems like these cars have zero problems for everyone but the problems are definitely out there.

what it matters is that you are happy now!

[DanG]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Thats great that M provided some welcome changes.

I’ve never had any issues driving my OG extremely hard, however I am running a stock tune.

Two of our local track instructors are running OG M2s with stock tune. They have had no problems on the track.

I did one track day with zero problems.

[ASAP]

has anyone actually driven one very hard back to back with an F87 on the STREET?

I'd like to hear your thoughts in terms of grip, how stable it is, how compliant the suspension is and if its as bouncy as the old one... if its more stable and is actually more composed compared to the F87... then it's a major win already.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by ASAP

has anyone actually driven one very hard back to back with an F87 on the STREET?

I'd like to hear your thoughts in terms of grip, how stable it is, how compliant the suspension is and if its as bouncy as the old one... if its more stable and is actually more composed compared to the F87... then it's a major win already.

Yes I have its a heavier but a completely changed car

It’s not as light on its feet, but man it grips like nothing before

And it’s no longer bouncy

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Yes I have its a heavier but a completely changed car

It’s not as light on its feet, but man it grips like nothing before

And it’s no longer bouncy

Then we can talk about this all day... but in the end, the G87 is just a far better car... BMW knew the shortcomings on the F87 that were obvious to me from day one... they fixed them and made it a better daily and a better performance car... The F87 sometimes felt to me like a German Mustang... and I don't mean that in a good way - unsorted supension, not particularly stable nor confidence inspiring and had consistent traction issues.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Then we can talk about this all day... but in the end, the G87 is just a far better car... BMW knew the shortcomings on the F87 that were obvious to me from day one... they fixed them and made it a better daily and a better performance car... The F87 sometimes felt to me like a German Mustang... and I don't mean that in a good way - unsorted supension, not particularly stable nor confidence inspiring and had consistent traction issues.

Yeah the F87 is definitely a handful and G87 is confident inspiring by comparison

[turnsignalslol]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

it happens man, I have overpaid for cars myself, sometimes you just blinded haha.

All the issues are fair but also not issues most have but when you read the forums it makes it seems like these cars have zero problems for everyone but the problems are definitely out there.

what it matters is that you are happy now!

Yeah, the M2C honestly taught me a lot about handling a performance car and a lot of (expensive) lessons that I hope I will learn from and not repeat in the future haha

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by F87source

you can track the f87 completely stock without issues too. The issues on the OG begins when you start modding, and these issues are mainly heat related.

This a not entirely accurate. There are a number of factors at play which mean it’s just not that simple. My OG is track prepped running BM3 tune without issue. Others have had thermal management issues stock.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

This a not entirely accurate. There are a number of factors at play which mean it’s just not that simple. My OG is track prepped running BM3 tune without issue. Others have had thermal management issues stock.

LOL. These track talks are funny. I bet over 90% of the F87s and G87s will never see the track. People on this board are the exceptions not the average owner.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

This a not entirely accurate. There are a number of factors at play which mean it’s just not that simple. My OG is track prepped running BM3 tune without issue. Others have had thermal management issues stock.

I can only speak about the 2 people that run the OG on track over and over again, they have suspensive, track pads and thats it, never had an issue what so ever. They run the car all through summer in ny area which can get pretty hot. Maybe they are outliers but they do a ton of track days with no issues what so ever.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by DanG

LOL. These track talks are funny. I bet over 90% of the F87s and G87s will never see the track. People on this board are the exceptions not the average owner.

for sure, maybe even more than 90% but that just makes me sad

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

I can only speak about the 2 people that run the OG on track over and over again, they have suspensive, track pads and thats it, never had an issue what so ever. They run the car all through summer in ny area which can get pretty hot. Maybe they are outliers but they do a ton of track days with no issues what so ever.

Not outliers… just additional data points that support my point which is just… it all depends.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

Not outliers… just additional data points that support my point which is just… it all depends.

no shit. I was giving out my data points which is 2 people that I have physically spoken with. These to me are great data points, one that has 160k miles on the car and tracks it a ton, the other also tracks it a ton, no issues. You apparently have no issues as well. But sure anything in life you can say it all depends. Anyways back on topic because we are not going anywhere with this

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

no shit. I was giving out my data points which is 2 people that I have physically spoken with. These to me are great data points, one that has 160k miles on the car and tracks it a ton, the other also tracks it a ton, no issues. You apparently have no issues as well. But sure anything in life you can say it all depends. Anyways back on topic because we are not going anywhere with this

No disagreeing with you my dude. It’s allllll goood.

Just pointing out to F87source (big fan btw) his statements elsewhere about 6-700hp M2C not having thermal management issues and modified OG M2s having them aren’t accurate. It’s just not that simple.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

No disagreeing with you my dude. It’s allllll goood.

Just pointing out to F87source (big fan btw) his statements elsewhere about 6-700hp M2C not having thermal management issues and modified OG M2s having them aren’t accurate. It’s just not that simple.

I was just trying to say the S55 has an excellent cooling system compared to the n55, and in most cases it can make significant amounts of power without requiring upgraded cooling for the engine coolant. The n55 is no where near as capable.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

This a not entirely accurate. There are a number of factors at play which mean it’s just not that simple. My OG is track prepped running BM3 tune without issue. Others have had thermal management issues stock.

A tune adds barely any power on N55 so it makes sense that your thermals are not much worse.

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by F87source

I was just trying to say the S55 has an excellent cooling system compared to the n55, and in most cases it can make significant amounts of power without requiring upgraded cooling for the engine coolant. The n55 is no where near as capable.

I understand and I’m being a bit of a pedant in a pointless effort to combat the misconception that the OG can’t handle track work. “It overheats if you add any power.”; “Mine overheated stock.” Etc etc

Some do, some don’t. It depends. I’ll move on to a M2C(S) or 991 eventually at which point I’ll leave OG syndrome behind and pivot to annoying different forum members.

[MarlboroM2C]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Then we can talk about this all day... but in the end, the G87 is just a far better car... BMW knew the shortcomings on the F87 that were obvious to me from day one... they fixed them and made it a better daily and a better performance car... The F87 sometimes felt to me like a German Mustang... and I don't mean that in a good way - unsorted supension, not particularly stable nor confidence inspiring and had consistent traction issues.

I kinda have to agree. The F87C suspension is a bit bouncy, not as stable as it could be stock. The G87 was fairly weighty yet still has a willingness to oversteer and is fun to drift. Had a chance to play with the G87 just a lil with autocross and drift at this summers Indianapolis BMW Intensive.
Despite the weight gain, it is confident.