[F87 Mew2]

Hey friends, tried searching the forum for previous threads but couldn’t quite find anything specific for my question.

For those of you who have gone stage 1 with BM3, how has your experience been now that it’s been out for a few years now? I’m mainly concerned about reliability (I.e. the rare crank hub issue). I understand that stock cars can - very rarely - have a spun crank hub too, but if I was planning to just do a conservative CS/CS+ tune, how likely/necessary is it that I’ll encounter reliability issues?

I have read that it is advisable to at least get charge pipes even for a stage 1 tune. Any thoughts on that?

Finally, the application for this is going to majority spirited back-roads on weekends, rarely going WOT for extended periods of time. I do plan to run light track days a couple times in the summer though.

So my question is, with a BM3 stage 1, should I be worried about any reliability or engine life issues or should I just deal with those on the off-chance they occur? Appreciate all feedback!

[///MPhatic]

You're asking people questions they can't answer.

You bought an S55 car, address the crank hub.

BM3 is quite reliable, so the tune is the least of your worries.

[ESB]

I think if/when I tune mine, I’ll bite the bullet and get the crank hub done if nothing more than for added peace of mind.

But yes imo you’re asking a good question since our S55s are already derated. If you bumped power to match M2CS stock power, I’m not sure why there would be any significant added risk to crank hub spinning. As for other components I thought I remember reading that the only difference with the M2 CS’s S55 is its oil pan. Other than that it’s identical. Citation needed, maybe.

All of this said I speak from zero experience.

[F87 Mew2]

Originally Posted by ESB

But yes imo you’re asking a good question since our S55s are already derated. If you bumped power to match M2CS stock power, I’m not sure why there would be any significant added risk to crank hub spinning.

yeah that was my line of thinking as well. Would you at least get some charge pipes? Thank you for your understanding response!

[F87 Mew2]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

You're asking people questions they can't answer.

Why would this be a question people can’t answer if I’m asking for people who have had experience doing what I’m hoping to do? If others have also used BM3 for a conservative stage 1 and could share their experience with it, it would help give me perspective.

Now that production for our cars has ended and has had years for people to experiment with tunes, document issues and best practices, I think it’s a fair question to ask now.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by F87 Mew2

Why would this be a question people can’t answer if I’m asking for people who have had experience doing what I’m hoping to do? If others have also used BM3 for a conservative stage 1 and could share their experience with it, it would help give me perspective.

Now that production for our cars has ended and has had years for people to experiment with tunes, document issues and best practices, I think it’s a fair question to ask now.

I think you're trying to get people to do your research for you. It's lazy. The answers you want are plain for those that search. Just keep in mind that with the S55 cars experiences will vary.

One more time for the people in the balcony: address the crank hub, then do what you want.

[F87 Mew2]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

I think you're trying to get people to do your research for you. It's lazy. The answers you want are plain for those that search. Just keep in mind that with the S55 cars experiences will vary.

One more time for the people in the balcony: address the crank hub, then do what you want.

Who pissed in your cheerios dude? Not sure why you're being so unnecessarily negative and rude when I'm just trying to hear people's experiences on this topic.

I can assure you I've done quite a bit of research on this topic and understand that there is always a chance for the crank hub to be spun even in stock cars, but it's extremely rare and overblown. That being the case, maybe you're just pushing the crank hub fix because you did it and you want everyone to follow in your steps, but it could very well be an unnecessarily expensive job if I'm just looking for a CS+ tune. You're in the camp that everyone should just get the crankhub done if they own an S55. Got it.

The whole point of these forums is for people to ask the community questions and hear different perspectives from other car owners. What do you think "research" comprises of if not just people sharing their personal experiences which then provides us with a rough statistical understanding of common issues?

[MSH_]

Agreed on crankhub issue being overblown and I elected not to do it. I’m
Tuned by Enabled (as are many others here) with what some have called his GTS+ tune (485whp/465wtq neighborhood). I also spoke with him about the crank hub issue and I don’t want to speak for him but on his own m2c he runs his tune and also has elected not to do it(both his car and mine are 6MT) He indicated it’s really the tq that can increase the chance of it slipping and it’s the reason he keeps the tq figure in check on his tune. I would encourage you to reach out to him for a tune unless you are absolutely set on bm3. Do a search here on the forums I think everyone that has his tune is extremely happy with the results and their experience working with him.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by F87 Mew2

Who pissed in your cheerios dude?

Standard response from someone that doesn't like hearing the truth.

Originally Posted by F87 Mew2

Not sure why you're being so unnecessarily negative and rude when I'm just trying to hear people's experiences on this topic.

I'm not being rude at all, I'm being realistic, and if you think you'll get the best information about the crank hub from these forms you're sorely mistaken. The guys here represent less than 5% of BMW M owners.

Originally Posted by F87 Mew2

I can assure you I've done quite a bit of research on this topic and understand that there is always a chance for the crank hub to be spun even in stock cars, but it's extremely rare and overblown.

Then you know it all already, right? Or you think 5 responses are going to change your mind from all the research you've done? Both are flawed ideas.

Originally Posted by F87 Mew2

The whole point of these forums is for people to ask the community questions and hear different perspectives from other car owners.

As I stated above, what you're getting here is a very small percentage of owners, many of whom modify their car.

[MSH_]

I will add to the crankhub discussion just one datapoint....
I purchased my 2020 M2C from a BMW Services Tech Lead at a Florida BMW dealership. I asked him,in his experience, how many S55 cars have come through with the crankhub slipping. He said in all the years only 3 cars....2 DCT & 1 Manual ('15, '16, '18 so all S55 M3/M4s). All tuned, but what level of tune I dont know. He also indicated even if the crankhub slipped the chances of needing a whole new engine are slim. His words...
They aren't interference engines. So even if it fully Jumps timing it won't need an engine.

[F87 Mew2]

Originally Posted by MSH_

Agreed on crankhub issue being overblown and I elected not to do it. I’m
Tuned by Enabled (as are many others here) with what some have called his GTS+ tune (485whp/465wtq neighborhood). I also spoke with him about the crank hub issue and I don’t want to speak for him but on his own m2c he runs his tune and also has elected not to do it(both his car and mine are 6MT) He indicated it’s really the tq that can increase the chance of it slipping and it’s the reason he keeps the tq figure in check on his tune. I would encourage you to reach out to him for a tune unless you are absolutely set on bm3. Do a search here on the forums I think everyone that has his tune is extremely happy with the results and their experience working with him.

Thanks for the helpful input! That sounds like a healthy range for hp and tq numbers. I will definitely reach out to him. I'm located in Canada, so hopefully it fill still be possible.

From what I've gathered, extremely high tq numbers past 5-600 are what really increases the chances of spinning the hub, especially on aggressive downshifts. I suppose he is in that same boat.

Also good to hear that your dealer said it's a very rare issue, albeit just anecdotally. Really appreciate your perspective.

[MSH_]

You won’t have any issues on tuning he does it remote. Just have to have a windows laptop and ENET OBD2 cable.
The more challenging piece is your DME. What year is yours? For anything post 6/2020 build you will have to remove your dme and ship to him for unlock. He is the only person or company in the US that I’m aware of that can crack these post 6/20 DMEs. Otherwise they need to be shipped to FEMTO in Finland for unlock. For the really early 2019s it’s easy no unlock required. Mine was a 6/2019 build (2020 model yr) so I still needed unlock but I was able to take to a local shop and they were able to unlock without removing the DME. There are a fair amount of shops in the US that can do the unlocks on the pre 6/2020 DMEs. It’s the post 6/20s that are difficult.

[F87 Mew2]

Originally Posted by MSH_

You won’t have any issues on tuning he does it remote. Just have to have a windows laptop and ENET OBD2 cable.
The more challenging piece is your DME. What year is yours? For anything post 6/2020 build you will have to remove your dme and ship to him for unlock. He is the only person or company in the US that I’m aware of that can crack these post 6/20 DMEs. Otherwise they need to be shipped to FEMTO in Finland for unlock. For the really early 2019s it’s easy no unlock required. Mine was a 6/2019 build (2020 model yr) so I still needed unlock but I was able to take to a local shop and they were able to unlock without removing the DME. There are a fair amount of shops in the US that can do the unlocks on the pre 6/2020 DMEs. It’s the post 6/20s that are difficult.

I have a 2019 model year and the build is 10/2018, so does that mean it can be done completely remotely without removing my DME?

[MSH_]

I think you are real close to the cutoff. Even if you still need bench unlock it’s not as much of a hassle as it is with the post 6/20 DMEs. You may have a shop local to you like I did that can unlock without removing. The shop is a Carbahn dealer so they are accustomed to unlocks and didn’t have to remove. If you think you are interested in tuning with Enabled I suggest you reach out via PM. He will be able to guide you.

[jayee88]

Originally Posted by MSH_

I will add to the crankhub discussion just one datapoint....
I purchased my 2020 M2C from a BMW Services Tech Lead at a Florida BMW dealership. I asked him,in his experience, how many S55 cars have come through with the crankhub slipping. He said in all the years only 3 cars....2 DCT & 1 Manual ('15, '16, '18 so all S55 M3/M4s). All tuned, but what level of tune I dont know. He also indicated even if the crankhub slipped the chances of needing a whole new engine are slim. His words...
They aren't interference engines. So even if it fully Jumps timing it won't need an engine.

That's the opinion of one service tech at one dealership. Most people who are tuned and have something as big as a crank hub failure will not even go to the dealership because they won't be able to install an aftermarket crank hub. The former BMW master tech at the shop I got my PPI done at told me he had gotten in 3 in the past year and has had many come in over the years. He was in the camp of the DCT aggressively shifting being the cause of most spun crank hubs (even stock). I've heard several independent shops echo this... could they just be trying to up-sell people on an unneeded mod? Sure. But this shop strongly recommended against doing it and instead just buying an extended warranty if I was enjoying the car stock, which added credibility to his statement.

I ended up doing the crank hub recently because I'm tuned and $3-4k insurance for a possible $15k+ months long headache sounds good in my book.

Originally Posted by F87 Mew2

I have a 2019 model year and the build is 10/2018, so does that mean it can be done completely remotely without removing my DME?

Plug in an OBDII to ethernet cable or WIFI ENET adapter and connect to BM3 or MHD. They will tell you if a bench unlock is needed. In my experience it seems like 03/2019 manufacture date was the cutoff for not needing a bench unlock, but I've head of some pre 03/19's getting locked by the dealers if you bring them in to do a software update.

[ESB]

Originally Posted by MSH_

I think you are real close to the cutoff. Even if you still need bench unlock it’s not as much of a hassle as it is with the post 6/20 DMEs. You may have a shop local to you like I did that can unlock without removing. The shop is a Carbahn dealer so they are accustomed to unlocks and didn’t have to remove. If you think you are interested in tuning with Enabled I suggest you reach out via PM. He will be able to guide you.

It’s been years since I researched the DME differences but I thought a 2018 build was guaranteed to be plug and play.

I remember feeling like my 1/2020 build was a few months into the criteria that required a bench unlock.

A couple years ago I don’t think anyone knew how to tune the post 6/20 DMEs. Shipping them to Finland must have been a more recent development.

But it was either in this thread or another that I learned Enabled can unlock my 1/2020 DME without me needing to take the DME out. That was big news for me since I’ve been under the impression for close to 4 years that I’d need to find a shop to take the DME out if/when I wanted to tune the car.

All of that said, I just remembered I took a software update at the dealer late last year so maybe that nerfed my DME to be equivalent to a post 6/20 one anyways. Wonderful.

[MSH_]

Originally Posted by jayee88

That's the opinion of one service tech at one dealership. .

Thats why i said...."I will add to the crankhub discussion just one datapoint."
I'm not saying this guy was the guru of crankhub slip knowledge, but he is one source of data seeing BMW's every single day.

[F87 Mew2]

Originally Posted by jayee88

I ended up doing the crank hub recently because I'm tuned and $3-4k insurance for a possible $15k+ months long headache sounds good in my book.

That's fair. There's always that risk I suppose. Do you mind me asking what kind of tune you have?

[F87 Mew2]

Originally Posted by MSH_

I think you are real close to the cutoff. Even if you still need bench unlock it’s not as much of a hassle as it is with the post 6/20 DMEs. You may have a shop local to you like I did that can unlock without removing. The shop is a Carbahn dealer so they are accustomed to unlocks and didn’t have to remove. If you think you are interested in tuning with Enabled I suggest you reach out via PM. He will be able to guide you.

Yeah, so I reached out to Enabled and just looked up my DME software ID. My car may have been victim to a software update prior to my ownership as this is what my ID reads:

<i-step>F020-22-03-510</i-step>

which I suspect indicates a 2022 software update. I'll wait to hear back from Enabled though to see what my options are.

EDIT: my mistake. That is just the i-level, not the DME ID. Apologies as I'm pretty new to this.

[MSH_]

Originally Posted by ESB

It’s been years since I researched the DME differences but I thought a 2018 build was guaranteed to be plug and play.

I remember feeling like my 1/2020 build was a few months into the criteria that required a bench unlock.

A couple years ago I don’t think anyone knew how to tune the post 6/20 DMEs. Shipping them to Finland must have been a more recent development.

But it was either in this thread or another that I learned Enabled can unlock my 1/2020 DME without me needing to take the DME out. That was big news for me since I’ve been under the impression for close to 4 years that I’d need to find a shop to take the DME out if/when I wanted to tune the car.

All of that said, I just remembered I took a software update at the dealer late last year so maybe that nerfed my DME to be equivalent to a post 6/20 one anyways. Wonderful.

Enabled was able to tune them as early as 2021, but that was through cloning an older pre 6/20 DME. You may have seen this thread from FaRKle! as we was the first to have it done --> https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1850560

In early 2023 Enabled figured out how to actually unlock the post 6/20s.. https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=624

BTW - I'm mistaken on FEMTO...turns out they are arent doing the unlock on M2C post 6/20 DMEs. Only S55 M3/M4s and then the newer S58s and B58s, so bottom line only option for post 6/20 M2C DMEs I believe is Enabled.

I almost went the route you are speaking of with Enabled on the unlock. He has to send you a special tool that you plug into your DME (like 3 or 4 plugs) . It takes a little work to get to the DME but didnt seem to bad. He then remotes in and does the unlock. DadVibes went this route and summarized it on a post on his old M2C build if you do a search. I just decided to have my shop do it since they were pretty reasonable on what they charged.

I think you would be OK even if the dealer did the update. I think the post 6/20 DMEs were different from a hardware perspective, so you wouldn't necessarily need to send your DME to Enabled.

Lastly, this screen shot below of an old Enabled post breaks down the different DME's for the M2Cs and which ones require bench unlock. This obviously is an older post before he figured out how to unlock the post 6/20s in early 2023.

Originally Posted by F87 Mew2

Yeah, so I reached out to Enabled and just looked up my DME software ID. My car may have been victim to a software update prior to my ownership as this is what my ID reads:

<i-step>F020-22-03-510</i-step>

which I suspect indicates a 2022 software update. I'll wait to hear back from Enabled though to see what my options are.

EDIT: my mistake. That is just the i-level, not the DME ID. Apologies as I'm pretty new to this.

He will probably need your btld version to determine if you need unlock. As jayee88 indicates above you can download the Bootmod3 OBD agent for free and use that to determine your btld version. You will need the ENET OBD2 cable and the windows laptop.
This is exactly what I ended up doing to get him the info he needed.
Here's the link to BM3 to download what you would need--> https://bootmod3.atlassian.net/wiki/...Laptop+version

[jayee88]

Originally Posted by MSH_

Thats why i said...."I will add to the crankhub discussion just one datapoint."
I'm not saying this guy was the guru of crankhub slip knowledge, but he is one source of data seeing BMW's every single day.

I was just pointing out that I'd value independent shops over dealership service centers on this topic specifically, because they're far less likely to see failed crank hubs at the dealer. Since they are not allowed to install non-OEM equipment on the car, most people with a crank hub failure would take it to somewhere that offers a pinned solution rather than reinstall a stock one with a flawed design (unless it's under warranty).

Originally Posted by F87 Mew2

That's fair. There's always that risk I suppose. Do you mind me asking what kind of tune you have?

BM3 Stage 2 OTS, high flow DPs (400 cell), intake, exhaust. Should be at ~500wHP. I have a BM3 flex fuel kit that I'm going to install soon, which should bump the power to ~550wHP on E30. Maybe in the distant future I'll do hybrid turbos if I can justify the cost. Don't think I'll go further as I want to keep this a street car and anything past that point will start requiring upgraded fueling and building the engine.

[FMOS Racing]

~6000 miles on my Enabled BM3 tune, mods in sig. Couldn't be happier.