[Driver37]

Originally Posted by MrOhnoez

Well...The E60 M5 was a SMG not a DCT

Touché

[Bimmed Out]

Wouldn't consider an auto tranny. Please, no goofy replies about how DCT is really a manual.

[Romo]

Originally Posted by kepler

Wouldn't consider an auto tranny. Please, no goofy replies about how DCT is really a manual.

Wel, how about a 6 MT with rev matching?

That`s supposed to be a MT, meaning like to do it your self job, but it`s more like a auto tranny

No offence....

[Corinne]

Originally Posted by Rossifumi

How do you know what gear you are in on a manual car?
I don't really see the difference, you either know what gear you are in or you have a look (display or shifter).

Fine, it is a bit easier to remember what you shifted to in a manual car as it is a physical shifter but not a huge difference.

The brain retains in which position you last put the manual gearstick because there's a pattern to it. In sport auto you're just nudging the gearstick or pulling the paddles so you can't remember so easily. Yes, I agree you can judge by the engine noise once you've driven the car regularly (ie. not just once, on a test drive) but I think it's possibly easy to make a mistake. And this would be even more the case when driving on a crowded road when your revs are, say, around 2000 rpm - how on earth can you be certain exactly which gear you're in ? And, as for looking at the display, when you're driving in bright sunlight it takes a couple of seconds to focus on it and that's not a good idea. Just my opinion.

[outcast]

What is it with this focus on "what gear are you in"?

Driving around on the street while shifting with paddles, the only thing you need to know: want a gear higher or lower? Tap the corresponding paddle. And if you need a sudden kick-down, well then you floor the throttle and downshift - voila, you are in the lowest gear currently possible. At no point does it ever matter which exact gear it is. But yes, this takes a while to get used to when switching from a manual (where you HAVE to know which gear you are in).

For the track: if you are not focused enough to know which gear you are in, well... then a manual won't help you either.

[Advevo]

Can you make handbrake turns with an DCT equipped car.

If not i go for a manual M2 as a fun car.

[David1]

By the time you get the M3/4 into launch control I will be at the next light.

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by doberzus

... Nothing beats the full control of a 6MT for driving pleasure. The M2 will be an absolute pleasure with the 6MT and many, many thanks to BMW for still offering it as a no cost option

It's too bad BMW added the "throttle blip" feature to the M2 6MT experience.
It can apparently be disabled by turning off DSC.
But that's asking for trouble in an emergency or if it rains etc.
Maybe it can be "coded" permanently off.

[Cpdbeemer]

Originally Posted by Bosozoku

It's too bad BMW added the "throttle blip" feature to the M2 6MT experience.
It can apparently be disabled by turning off DSC.
But that's asking for trouble in an emergency or if it rains etc.
Maybe it can be "coded" permanently off.

Agreed. If you are getting a manual, then go the whole manual experience and if you cant heel toe learn or go AT. It is all part of the challenge and the reward of driving a manual (and for full disclosure I currently have one AT and one manual)

[phoenixbmwlife]

I got my car in June of last year and I have never used LC. There is something really silly looking about being at the light with the engine that's revved up waiting for the green light.

I don't see where I could ever use LC really.

[newguy8]

Agree with most comments regarding manual + I'm 24 I think I can deal with switching gears even if stuck in traffic - save the auto/dct when I'm older and don't have the patience to constantly shift my feet.

Never having a car with LC - I can see it being a gimmick that you'd use once off the beaten track for the sake of using it.

What are your thought on the M perf parts with LBB - If I was going for AW- I would certainly get them as they provide a very nice contrast but with the LBB I'm not so sure. Maybe a discussion for another thread however.

[DS_BMW]

Manual is the only way the M2 should come.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Rossifumi

How do you know what gear you are in on a manual car?
I don't really see the difference, you either know what gear you are in or you have a look (display or shifter).
Fine, it is a bit easier to remember what you shifted to in a manual car as it is a physical shifter but not a huge difference.

You do know. No need to look at the gear shifter. You recognize with your arm's position on the gear shifter.

Get the MT before they go extinct or are made available at an extra price (I can see that happening in the future: M-DCT stock and MT optional with a premium).

[Romo]

Originally Posted by Artemis

You do know. No need to look at the gear shifter. You recognize with your arm's position on the gear shifter.

Get the MT before they go extinct or are made available at an extra price (I can see that happening in the future: M-DCT stock and MT optional with a premium).

Wel, above is no future in the Netherlands anymore, stock M2 will be delivered with M-DCT, 6MT is an option, due to CO2 emissions regulations.

M-DCT has lower CO2 emissions then the 6 MT, it will be €6.000,-- more expensive.

Now that is a lot of money, so big chance I will go for the M-DCT


For now driving the Cayman GTS with PDK, I must admit it is great, magnificent on how it works, but then again I must admit, I`ve never used the launch control

[UpNcOmINg!]

I know I will go Manual, just because I love being in absolute control, being able to use the gears to trail brake into corners, being able to heel-toe on my own, being able to launch like a mofo whenever I want.
Had a manual N55 135i and I never regretted that decision, not for second.

[sgrinavi]

For a track car, DCT, for a daily driver manual all the way.

I've used the launch control on my GTS twice just because I could.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Driver37

Am I the only one who prefers the "notchy feel" of older vehicles?

I wouldn't buy a stick past the E46 M3.

(I would rock an e60 M5 in a stick because holy cow that DCT is horrid)

However, when I drive the M4s and M235s in a 6 speed it feels a bit numb. It actually feels disengaged to me... Like its a stick for beginners.

Just my .02

The transmission is not horrible, just driver inexperience. Driving an SMG is not just yanking back on the paddle shifters which is what most people believe. Just like a three pedal manual transmission, the SMG rewards good input and ruthlessly punishes negative input. There is definitely technique and practice improves this. When I drive my M6 every day, I am as smooth as glass and passengers can hardly tell when I shift the car. When I don't, the first few miles are a bit strained. As I stated earlier, the car really punishes the driver with negative feedback for ham-fisted driving.

That said, the true place for the SMG is the race track. THIS is when the SMG comes alive and shines brighter than any manual transmission could ever hope, no matter the driver of the MT. WOT upshifts, not problem. Lightening fast downshifts, no problem. Perfect RPM matching, done and dusted. Bring it all...the SMG will respond. Oh, I almost forgot...the upshifts in WOT...WOW! The car lets you know that this isn't a milk run...you realize very quickly that you are on a mission!!

If I sound like an SMG proponent, it is because I am. I feel that this is a much maligned and poorly understood technology that, once mastered, provides a sense of accomplishment that few technical devices can match!!

Cheers-mk

[bizzyqu]

should you lift off the gas when changing gears with a dct?

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by bizzyqu

should you lift off the gas when changing gears with a dct?

Nope...

[Cpdbeemer]

Originally Posted by UpNcOmINg!

I know I will go Manual, just because I love being in absolute control, being able to use the gears to trail brake into corners, being able to heel-toe on my own, being able to launch like a mofo whenever I want.
Had a manual N55 135i and I never regretted that decision, not for second.

Agree with you, after a succession of manuals, it is a delight spinning a manual along and getting it right. ..... For the record thats engine braking not trail braking.

[stren]

Originally Posted by Corinne

The brain retains in which position you last put the manual gearstick because there's a pattern to it. In sport auto you're just nudging the gearstick or pulling the paddles so you can't remember so easily. Yes, I agree you can judge by the engine noise once you've driven the car regularly (ie. not just once, on a test drive) but I think it's possibly easy to make a mistake. And this would be even more the case when driving on a crowded road when your revs are, say, around 2000 rpm - how on earth can you be certain exactly which gear you're in ? And, as for looking at the display, when you're driving in bright sunlight it takes a couple of seconds to focus on it and that's not a good idea. Just my opinion.

+1, add on the fact that when you're driving around town, the automatic in manual mode can still downshift for you as it won't stall the engine. So if you're breaking and you change down right at the same time as the car decides to then you can change down twice and suddenly you're revving at 5Krpm for no reason at all.

Originally Posted by outcast

What is it with this focus on "what gear are you in"?

Driving around on the street while shifting with paddles, the only thing you need to know: want a gear higher or lower? Tap the corresponding paddle. And if you need a sudden kick-down, well then you floor the throttle and downshift - voila, you are in the lowest gear currently possible. At no point does it ever matter which exact gear it is. But yes, this takes a while to get used to when switching from a manual (where you HAVE to know which gear you are in).

For the track: if you are not focused enough to know which gear you are in, well... then a manual won't help you either.

That's far more true for the track I feel where engine revs and sound is higher and generally you're shifting a gear at a time. On the street plenty of times in a manual i'd change multiple gears, like 6th to 3rd for example or vice versa. Plus automatics with more gears like the regular 8AT you can easily get lost as to 5/6/7 to be honest. My brain works more like - I want to be in third right now, so I have to think ok well what gear am I in, and how many times do i have to press the paddle. With a manual you don't need to know where you're coming from, but even then as soon as your hand touches the manual gear knob you know what gear you're in by the muscle memory. Effectively if you want you can check what gear you're in by touching the gear stick without taking your eyes off the road. Of course a HUD solves some of these problems too.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by stren

+1, add on the fact that when you're driving around town, the automatic in manual mode can still downshift for you as it won't stall the engine. So if you're breaking and you change down right at the same time as the car decides to then you can change down twice and suddenly you're revving at 5Krpm for no reason at all.

That is the kind of thing someone that doesn't use the paddles much would do. I sometimes have it in Manual mode just to be able to upshift and let the car downshift on its own. But if I'm trying to be super awesome and downshift into a turn, I'm always pre-emptively downshifting. Even in a manual, I wouldn't wait until I'm halfway into my turn to decide to downshift.