[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

2. F22
M2, 375hp, 465nm trq, 0-100km/h 4.3s (DCT)
240i, 340hp, 500nm trq, 0-100km/h 4.4s (xDrive)

Power-wise, the margin between the two is going to be small.
The B58 on the stock 340i dynos the same whp as the M2. That is, ~331whp.
And the B58's power is available at a lower RPM. The two cars should stack up similarly on straight-line tests.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Twix

The LED is referring to the corona rings. Looks like Apple CarPlay is the only new option from what I quickly read.

Note: Does the rear spoiler look a bit bigger than the MY2016? It almost looks like it's the M performance spoiler, but painted body colour.

No, the spoiler looks to be the same. But, I think the standard spoiler is pretty big in the first place, well, at least when compared to the 1 series spoiler.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Tag

I'd be interested in seeing that poll. The point I was making was not a comparison between the M2 and M240i, but rather how BMW on one end restricted the car as not to be better than the M4 and from the other end the M240i's new engine puts it closer to the M2 in straight line performance. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. An M car should have it's space. IMO there should never be any sub model in the same series that matches any aspect of its M counterparts performance. I still like the M2, hell I love it and that's why I want one. I just don't think BMW will do anything to move the car up in performance anytime soon. If that stance makes me a curmudgeon then so be it.

You have to keep prices in mind also. A fully loaded x drive vert M240 will be what, 10 grand more than an M2? LOL!

Right now, if you equip an M235i to match an M2, the prices are really close for an inferior product( less hp, no wide body, lsd, dct, M4 wheels, sweet exhaust).

Yes, I realize that the series car can be had with discounts while the M2 can't but I'm talking about MSRP. Plus, I bet a lot of dealers won't discount the M240 when it first comes out. Hell, we have already seen a post about how a dude on an M2 list getting a call about the M240i..."Man, I have some very exciting news for you!"

What's the price difference between the 435i and M4? 30k?

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Car play and LCI nav screen sound like two pretty good upgrades to me.

I'm kind of jealous of you guys that will be getting tell new Nav. Don't really care about the carplay...not an apple user.

But, I heard they were detuning the '17 M2''s because they don't want it to beat their new halo, the M240i!

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

What makes you think the analogy is even close?

1. E92
M3, 414hp, 400nm trq, 0-100km/h 4.6s (DCT)
335i, 302hp, 400nm trq, 0-100km/h 5.6s

2. F22
M2, 375hp, 465nm trq, 0-100km/h 4.3s (DCT)
240i, 340hp, 500nm trq, 0-100km/h 4.4s (xDrive)

The E92 had a 8000rpm 4L NA V8, the 335i had a straight 6 turbo...
The M2 and 240i both have a 3L straight six twin scroll turbo...

Also the one thing I dislike most on the 1M is the dull engine, no character at all but because the whole package talks to me so I am ok with it. Would I love it more if it had the 3.2L S54 engine? You bet. Even though using the S54 might be a bit slower but there are the benefits of better engine sound, better throttle response and the joy of reving out to 8k.

So I am not just a number guy and in this case I see that the M2 can use a better engine to justify its premium.

Honestly, I think you would enjoy the M2 if you get a chance to drive one. The engine feels more linear and holds power to 7000 rpms. It really feels more like the M engines of old, at least compared to the 1M and M4. Give it a try instead of judging these cars based off of paper racing.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Honestly, I think you would enjoy the M2 if you get a chance to drive one. The engine feels more linear and holds power to 7000 rpms. It really feels more like the M engines of old, at least compared to the 1M and M4. Give it a try instead of judging these cars based off of paper racing.

No need to argue with that guy. Numbers Numbers and numbers only

Cheers
Robin

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Honestly, I think you would enjoy the M2 if you get a chance to drive one. The engine feels more linear and holds power to 7000 rpms. It really feels more like the M engines of old, at least compared to the 1M and M4. Give it a try instead of judging these cars based off of paper racing.

Actually, while he might like the power delivery of the M2 motor because it is MUCH more willing at the top end, he said that he also enjoys the way the 1M talks to you.. Something that the M2 doesn't do.

I agree with Karmic that the 1M motor doesn't really have " soul".

The only problem (aside from needing real brake pads, some coding, and a center armrest that doesn't move) with the M2 is the entire car doesn't have " soul " when compared to a 1M.

You can't feel the road beneath your finger tips; you can't hunker down closer to the road as well from the taller, motorized buckets, you can't feel the transmission gears as well because they are slicker, and you also have a contrived musical performance from both ASD as well as the ECU tuning. The exhaust overrun sounds great on deceleration on the street but the overrun actually masks some of the engine sound on track with all the extra farting around. The car sounds kinda silly in the twisty bits. And that's with a manual ..

So , no, I don't think he would be happier with an M2. I think The only way a 1M owner would prefer the M2 is if the car is used primarily as a daily driver or because they want DCT.

[Robin_NL]

My ex S65 V8 might have had 'soul' but as a daily the N54 335i E90 was way more capable of going fast in normal situations. Because 400Nm @ 1500rpm-3500rpm is a bit different than 400Nm @ 4500rpm isn't it.

When it first came out in '06 N54 was initially good for >400BHP easily. But they downtuned it because of oncoming E9x M3 V8.

My current N54 in my 1M is a blast, call it 'no soul', it surely does what is has to do. Great engine for real life situations. Love it(and the 1M)
So it's al perception and the way you look at it. And yes >6000 is not necessary.But the punch it gives down low still amazes me.


I'm going to use M2 as a daily and track/drifting a few times a year, DCT comes in handy because cheaper overhere than 6MT and I have a bad left leg/underback the last half year or so

My ex E46M3 6Mt was one of the greatest cars I ever had, but just like the e90 M3 'no useable torque' in real life. It's nice to rev it high(you must to get the best out of it) etc etc. But this is 2016. Things have changed.


On paper M2 is fast enough. IRL it should even be more fun. Though I know it's not a 1M(M3/4 isn't either) or an M3CSL.

When E36 M3 came out what were they writing about it vs E30M3?

There are always faster cars(AMG etc) but the whole package of an M car is more than the sum of its parts(cliché I know)

I've had two N55s(535i/335i no tune) and they felt more alive than E90 M3 to begin with in normal circumstances.

I need some coffee(0:700CET)

Cheers
Robin

[Robin_NL]

And if I wanted to have the fastest real life (non tuned) car in the same power/price range, I'd have bought an RS3/TTRS, they're so fast off the line and at trafficlights and they're looking well imho.

But M is about a bit more or what?


Cheers
Robin

[Cpdbeemer]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Actually, while he might like the power delivery of the M2 motor because it is MUCH more willing at the top end, he said that he also enjoys the way the 1M talks to you.. Something that the M2 doesn't do.

I agree with Karmic that the 1M motor doesn't really have " soul".

The only problem (aside from needing real brake pads, some coding, and a center armrest that doesn't move) with the M2 is the entire car doesn't have " soul " when compared to a 1M.

You can't feel the road beneath your finger tips; you can't hunker down closer to the road as well from the taller, motorized buckets, you can't feel the transmission gears as well because they are slicker, and you also have a contrived musical performance from both ASD as well as the ECU tuning. The exhaust overrun sounds great on deceleration on the street but the overrun actually masks some of the engine sound on track with all the extra farting around. The car sounds kinda silly in the twisty bits. And that's with a manual ..

So , no, I don't think he would be happier with an M2. I think The only way a 1M owner would prefer the M2 is if the car is used primarily as a daily driver or because they want DCT.

And I was trying so hard to stay out of it.

The 1M is a fundamentally flawed design. Too twitchy. The wider and longer track has fixed that. Sorry but that is the reality. This has been addressed in the M2.

Every credible review of both cars will illustrate that (and granted there are plenty of fanbois for both and plenty of youtube warriors also not included in the 'credible' reports).

Now if you love something with all its imperfections (and anyone still happily married will be in that camp) that is totally fine. But dont hold the 1M up as the perfect specimen, and throw mud on all other candidates from that vantage point.

[ilovewagons]

My car builds in October for Nov delivery. I guess I'll find out first hand if BMW have given me something extra so I won't micturate in terror every time a M240i pulls up at the lights

In the meantime, I'm going to try and learn to put up with a car that beat the 997.2 Carrera S to become Australia's best driver's car of the year. It will be difficult, but I have to try.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Cpdbeemer

And I was trying so hard to stay out of it.

The 1M is a fundamentally flawed design. Too twitchy. The wider and longer track has fixed that. Sorry but that is the reality. This has been addressed in the M2.

Every credible review of both cars will illustrate that (and granted there are plenty of fanbois for both and plenty of youtube warriors also not included in the 'credible' reports).

Now if you love something with all its imperfections (and anyone still happily married will be in that camp) that is totally fine. But dont hold the 1M up as the perfect specimen, and throw mud on all other candidates from that vantage point.

Well said, though I have to say 1M (not as a daily) on B roads/trackdays/drifting gives way more satisfaction than any of my former cars did(both M3 included) and satisfaction you can't measure

It's perception as I stated. A 1M has so many flaws and it still is so great as a whole. Because of its flaws I guess? It's raw etc blablabla. As a daily in trafficjams it's a crap thing though. imho.And the bumpy ride can be annoying(as a daily) just like the drone of the engine. But the way it steers/handling/agility on B roads etc. Name just one 'better' BMW for those circumstances. And I know'better' is subjective

Cheers
Robin

[Bmwbb]

I think there is no need to compare the m240 with the m2. An M car is an M car! it is different from other bmws. As someone might have pointed out, the new Porsche 718 boxster is even faster than most non entry 911s. Who cares? If I can afford a 911, I won't go for the boxster!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Cpdbeemer

And I was trying so hard to stay out of it.

The 1M is a fundamentally flawed design. Too twitchy. The wider and longer track has fixed that. Sorry but that is the reality. This has been addressed in the M2.

Every credible review of both cars will illustrate that (and granted there are plenty of fanbois for both and plenty of youtube warriors also not included in the 'credible' reports).

Now if you love something with all its imperfections (and anyone still happily married will be in that camp) that is totally fine. But dont hold the 1M up as the perfect specimen, and throw mud on all other candidates from that vantage point.

First off, you can go back to staying out of this , anytime you like ... . But since you came off the bench to join the fray, have you driven both cars yet ?

I haven't found a vehicle without some flaw in its design yet.. Have you ? I think that in selecting the perfect vehicle for onself, one inherently understands that likely certain compromises must be made.

Is the 1M flawless ? FUCK NO!. I Never said it was (but thanks for the thought!). However, Some of its flaws can be addressed , and somewhat simply. Same for the M2.

Some of each cars flaws cannot be fixed. You cannot add wheelbase to the 1M. You cannot easily change the M diff and its programming. You *can * add wider tires especially at the rear and you *can* add camber plates.

You cannot add mechanical steering feel to the M2. You cannot (as an individual) easily turn certain things on and off - like auto rev match- , but they can be coded. You *can* add better brakes.

Since you didn't hear me the first time I'll say it again. YES I like the fundamental issues the 1M has and in particular that " twitchy " design. It's the same DNA that makes the M2 "Chuckable ".

If the M2 has a flaw, it is that it's too soft, and isolated. The M2 is the Big Fundamental- ala Tim Duncan of the San Antonio Spurs and the 1M is Shaquille O'Neal.

Both are NBA champion centers, but if I was having a party, I know who I would be inviting , the guy with more personality. The 1M. I mean... Shaq.

As far as I'm concerned , when I'm taking the 1M out, it's like taking GIGI to bed.

Taking the M2 out is awesome too! Except GIGI makes you wear a condom.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

First off, you can go back to staying out of this , anytime you like ... . But since you came off the bench to join the fray, have you driven both cars yet ?

I haven't found a vehicle without some flaw in its design yet.. Have you ? I think that in selecting the perfect vehicle for onself, one inherently understands that likely certain compromises must be made.

Is the 1M flawless ? FUCK NO!. I Never said it was (but thanks for the thought!). However, Some of its flaws can be addressed , and somewhat simply. Same for the M2.

Some of each cars flaws cannot be fixed. You cannot add wheelbase to the 1M. You cannot easily change the M diff and its programming. You *can * add wider tires especially at the rear and you *can* add camber plates.

You cannot add mechanical steering feel to the M2. You cannot (as an individual) easily turn certain things on and off - like auto rev match- , but they can be coded. You *can* add better brakes.

Since you didn't hear me the first time I'll say it again. YES I like the fundamental issues the 1M has and in particular that " twitchy " design. It's the same DNA that makes the M2 "Chuckable ".

If the M2 has a flaw, it is that it's too soft, and isolated. The M2 is the Big Fundamental- ala Tim Duncan of the San Antonio Spurs and the 1M is Shaquille O'Neal.

Both are NBA champion centers, but if I was having a party, I know who I would be inviting , the guy with more personality. The 1M. I mean... Shaq.

As far as I'm concerned , when I'm taking the 1M out, it's like taking GIGI to bed.

Taking the M2 out is awesome too! Except GIGI makes you wear a condom.

Lol! OK...now GIGI with a condom is straight up bullshit, although, in her line of work you might be better off with one! Don't wanna get burnt! Haha!

Now, as a former 1M owner I don't really get calling the M2 "soft" like it's just some of that gack that my daughter plays with and likes to push her finger in to make a far sound. It's not a soft car, at least I don't think so and I daily drove my 1M for almost 5 years.

Is it softer than the 1M in some ways? Well yes, but all I can think of is steering (can't be helped, but at least it's the best in the BMW lineup) and drone, which I do really miss but active sound is doing its best to recreate that!

Suspension isn't softer while being better. The M2 is more stable which I think is a good thing on and off track. Trying to accelerate in first or second gear while hitting bumps on the crappy northern indiana roads got annoying to say the least. The M2 still has this a little but has been drastically improved. I love that I can drive the M2 ALOT faster around corners than the 1M but then again, I'm no pro driver.

Let's be honest about the seats, while you, I, Nachob, Artemis and a few others preferred the manual seats a majority of 1Ms were ordered with auto seats and nav and everything else. I guess we can thank THEM for the electric seats and mandatory nav in the M2. After all, it was "market exercise".

The sound that the M2 makes is miles better, at least to me.

Was the 1M fun? Fuck yeah it was but so is the M2. It can do everything the 1M does but at faster speeds!

I loved my 1M and love my M2 so far. It was a hard decision getting rid of the 1M and wish I could have kept it, but I would say because of its rarity over anything else. If the 1M wasn't so limited, I doubt it would be so legendary.

To each their own.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Lol! OK...now GIGI with a condom is straight up bullshit, although, in her line of work you might be better off with one! Don't wanna get burnt! Haha!

Now, as a former 1M owner I don't really get calling the M2 "soft" like it's just some of that gack that my daughter plays with and likes to push her finger in to make a far sound. It's not a soft car, at least I don't think so and I daily drove my 1M for almost 5 years.

Is it softer than the 1M in some ways? Well yes, but all I can think of is steering (can't be helped, but at least it's the best in the BMW lineup) and drone, which I do really miss but active sound is doing its best to recreate that!

Suspension isn't softer while being better. The M2 is more stable which I think is a good thing on and off track. Trying to accelerate in first or second gear while hitting bumps on the crappy northern indiana roads got annoying to say the least. The M2 still has this a little but has been drastically improved. I love that I can drive the M2 ALOT faster around corners than the 1M but then again, I'm no pro driver.

Let's be honest about the seats, while you, I, Nachob, Artemis and a few others preferred the manual seats a majority of 1Ms were ordered with auto seats and nav and everything else. I guess we can thank THEM for the electric seats and mandatory nav in the M2. After all, it was "market exercise".

The sound that the M2 makes is miles better, at least to me.

Was the 1M fun? Fuck yeah it was but so is the M2. It can do everything the 1M does but at faster speeds!

I loved my 1M and love my M2 so far. It was a hard decision getting rid of the 1M and wish I could have kept it, but I would say because of its rarity over anything else. If the 1M wasn't so limited, I doubt it would be so legendary.

To each their own.

I don't mean to infer that the M2 is soft and pudgy... Well The brakes are soft. :help

The suspension is absolutely far better and one can indeed fly around corners far faster and with true abandon...

But with the loaded up, full options, might as well add a moonroof , version that we have received , If there was ever an M car ready for some CSL/GTS treatment... it's this car in US guise.

Mustang - R
Cayman - gt4
Focus- RS
TT - RS
M2 - ??

As you said, to each their own, and I would like my car more track I seriously need a little MORE " M performance ". I would like to check the Clubsport option box for the M2.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Actually, while he might like the power delivery of the M2 motor because it is MUCH more willing at the top end, he said that he also enjoys the way the 1M talks to you.. Something that the M2 doesn't do.

I agree with Karmic that the 1M motor doesn't really have " soul".

The only problem (aside from needing real brake pads, some coding, and a center armrest that doesn't move) with the M2 is the entire car doesn't have " soul " when compared to a 1M.

You can't feel the road beneath your finger tips; you can't hunker down closer to the road as well from the taller, motorized buckets, you can't feel the transmission gears as well because they are slicker, and you also have a contrived musical performance from both ASD as well as the ECU tuning. The exhaust overrun sounds great on deceleration on the street but the overrun actually masks some of the engine sound on track with all the extra farting around. The car sounds kinda silly in the twisty bits. And that's with a manual ..

So , no, I don't think he would be happier with an M2. I think The only way a 1M owner would prefer the M2 is if the car is used primarily as a daily driver or because they want DCT.

First, I didn't say he would like it more than the 1M.

And I agree, the M2 is a better daily driver while being just as fun, at least to me. It is also faster on the track so why wouldn't make the better track car for some?

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I don't mean to infer that the M2 is soft and pudgy... Well The brakes are soft. :help

The suspension is absolutely far better and one can indeed fly around corners far faster and with true abandon...

But with the loaded up, full options, might as well add a moonroof , version that we have received , If there was ever an M car ready for some CSL/GTS treatment... it's this car in US guise.

Mustang - R
Cayman - gt4
Focus- RS
TT - RS
M2 - ??

As you said, to each their own, and I would like my car more track I seriously need a little MORE " M performance ". I would like to check the Clubsport option box for the M2.

Definitely, I really wished they offered manual seats. Oh well, I am either used to it now or it doesn't seem that high because the window sills are higher up also.

I am actually enjoying the idrive and the sirius radio...love it actually! Lithium channel is the shit! Nothing beats 90''s Seattle grunge/alternative! NOTHING!!!!!

[Robin_NL]

So I ordered manual seats (while having electric seats and satnav in my 1M, the latter is great as I use my car as a daily more or less) , but I understand manual seats are not available in the USA?

We also have the sun/moonroof as an option(which I didn't order)

Cheers
Robin

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Lithium channel is the shit! Nothing beats 90''s Seattle grunge/alternative! NOTHING!!!!!

I'm a Pearl Jam/Soundgarden/Audioslave etc fan from 'day one'.
Nirvana too(Dave Grohl and his stuff Foo Fighters/Them Crooked Vultures etc are even better)


This makes me relaxed, sort off, when driving



[/offtopic]

Cheers
Robin

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

If the 1M wasn't so limited, I doubt it would be so legendary.

Isn't this blasphemy in the 1Mer world?!? That's like leaving Scientology and saying L.Ron was actually kind of a whack job. Should you be looking over your shoulder now?

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Definitely, I really wished they offered manual seats. Oh well, I am either used to it now or it doesn't seem that high because the window sills are higher up also.

I am actually enjoying the idrive and the sirius radio...love it actually! Lithium channel is the shit! Nothing beats 90''s Seattle grunge/alternative! NOTHING!!!!!

Agree on the manual seats availability (or lack thereof).

As for the other, looking forward to the Sirius radio. Two words... Ozzy's Boneyard!