How is the manual transmission?

BruceM · 05-19-2016, 02:52 PM

Wait, I take it all back! I drove a DCT M2 at the dealer, and then went back out right away in an M4 so I could do a back-to-back. So my comments above were only about the M4 box. I understand it may be the same box (which is part of the reason I wanted to test drive the M4), but still, I should make that clear...

I should also say that those comments are relative to my own experience and cars, which were until recently the aforementioned modded E36 M, and even now a 930, which has a hydraulic G50 tranny but a racing-style puck clutch that is a leg press with each shift. Coming from those cars, I could barely even feel resistance in the M4...

boostm3 · 05-19-2016, 02:57 PM

Since nobody's mentioned it, Im assuming nobody's been bothered by the infamous Clutch Delay Valve (CDV) that comes on these cars? ... When shifting mainly from first to second under had acceleration, the valve usually produces a nasty 'stutter' or 'jolt'.

BruceM · 05-19-2016, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boostm3

Since nobody's mentioned it, Im assuming nobody's been bothered by the infamous Clutch Delay Valve (CDV) that comes on these cars? ... When shifting mainly from first to second under had acceleration, the valve usually produces a nasty 'stutter' or 'jolt'.

Interesting. I had a hard time smoothing out the 1-2 shift in the M4, while the others were fine. Maybe that was it...

boostm3 · 05-19-2016, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

Interesting. I had a hard time smoothing out the 1-2 shift in the M4, while the others were fine. Maybe that was it...

That was Definitely it! Ive been living with it for 5 yrs in my 135i MSport, and before that, had it with my E36 M3.. On that one, I had the dealer remove it which smoothed it out... Not sure if BMW puts it on all their M Cars too; Im pretty sure the E39 M5 didnt have it, but most do. Apparently, BMW feels that most drivers dont know how to shift, so they insert this 'mechanical nanny' to ease the transitions between gears. Most enthusiasts absolutely hate it...

Here's a long thread about it, and how to remove it on most bmws. Although its location varies by model, its effect is obnoxious where ever it goes.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209440

ChrisK · 05-19-2016, 03:52 PM

CDV have never been put on m-cars.

chris719 · 05-19-2016, 04:11 PM

Untrue. Z4M and E46 M3 had a CDV. I would disagree on the effect it produces, however. It just delays the engagement action a bit; it's most noticeable starting, launching, or parking. Having driven 10k+ miles before I removed mine, I don't think it really causes the 1->2 shift to be less smooth. At least, not the primary contributor.

gtr · 05-19-2016, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romo

What rubbery feeling?? There is none, yes there is if you don`t let it warm up properly, if you don not engage the clutch fully, do not lift the accelerator pedal fully when shifting.

Sounds like a slow granny shift off boost. This is like saying if I shift slow enough my gears don't grind on my Subaru. Good transmissions adjust to you not you adjusting to the tranny. Go test drive a GT4 and do what you want cause every shift is smooth and perfect. Fast, slow, release or fast/slow shifts. Doesn't matter. It will be smooth and precise as long as it's warmed up. Release point is also perfect.

dammitcubs · 05-19-2016, 04:16 PM

Im currently driving the MT version now and so far I'm happy I went with the manual. Even through DCT is faster, you can't beat manual even with some negatives.

Rev-Matching
It works, it's pretty good. It's sad to see that you have to turn off the Nannies to use do the rev-matching yourself but overall it's pretty good. There were times when I downshifted from 6 all the way to 3 and it was super smooth. I was like (man...i wish i can do that myself...

).

It is annoying that once the shifter starts into the gate, the sensor is trigger and then a blip happens. but alot of times when im going to a stop, i usually just coast in N and it's green again, I just put into gear and it doesn't blip then and I just manually blip it. Overall, i'm not annoyed by it.

Rubber shifter
I kinda understand what people are talking about when they say rubbery, it's that the gate open seems to have some resistance if you aren't at the perfect load. But overall, it's still pretty smooth. ONLY Reverse is the annoying one but that's probably done on purpose for safetly. It's alot smoother than the 5MT on the EVO X so I really can't complain there.

Side notes:
It's pretty interesting that the car 1st or Reverse will add gas once you get the friction point. I don't even use my gas pedal as much. But when i need to push it, then it's a different story.

overall.....

boostm3 · 05-19-2016, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisK

CDV have never been put on m-cars.

Incorrect.. I know for a fact they were on E36 M3s, as well as E39 M5s . Its also shown for the E46 M3. Realoem shows it in the E92 M3 diagram.... Its NOT shown on the diagrams for current M3/4 models, nor the M2 ... I also dont see it on the clutch diagrams for the M235i... However I also read that the newer models still have that obnoxious functionality, but it's been integrated into the bell-housing/clutch, so not an easy external replacement/fix/hack/whatever.

Mad One · 05-19-2016, 04:34 PM

"QUOTE by ChrisK
CDV have never been put on m-cars."

My 1M had a CDV. Had the dealer remove it and after shifting action was much more in tune with my clutch movement.

ChrisK · 05-19-2016, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boostm3

Incorrect.. I know for a fact they were on E36 M3s, as well as E39 M5s . Its also shown for the E46 M3. Realoem shows it in the E92 M3 diagram.... Its NOT shown on the diagrams for current M3/4 models, nor the M2 ... I also dont see it on the clutch diagrams for the M235i... However I also read that the newer models still have that obnoxious functionality, but it's been integrated into the bell-housing/clutch, so not an easy external replacement/fix/hack/whatever.

I never had one my e46 M3.

ChrisK · 05-19-2016, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad One

"QUOTE by ChrisK
CDV have never been put on m-cars."

My 1M had a CDV. Had the dealer remove it and after shifting action was much more in tune with my clutch movement.

It's possible they started putting them back in to control clutch wear. My e92 M3 was DCT.

boostm3 · 05-19-2016, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisK

I never had one my e46 M3.

Interesting.. In this diagram, you can see it, part #15, but its greyed out... In the cars Im positive of, its Not greyed out...

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=21_0094

In the diagram for the E92 M3, its also greyed out as #13 and the part description which usually would say Lock Valve, is also missing.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=21_0208

Go Figure....

OrangeCrush · 05-19-2016, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atxsk8r

Still waiting on my manual M2 to arrive but i did test drive a manual M3 multiple times and liked it, enjoyed the rev matching also.

I currently have DCT but going back to manual to mix it up. Plus when i drive my DCT now, i always use the gear lever (using the paddles feel lame to me) to shift pretending it was a manual lol

Yeah, stupid F1 and their lame paddles. LAME!!!!

Lol

OrangeCrush · 05-19-2016, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisK

CDV have never been put on m-cars.

1M had it.

atxsk8r · 05-19-2016, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Yeah, stupid F1 and their lame paddles. LAME!!!!

Lol

Thanks for agreeing with me

Paddles feel like i'm playing Mario Kart at the arcade even though that is fun

OrangeCrush · 05-19-2016, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boostm3

Interesting.. In this diagram, you can see it, part #15, but its greyed out... In the cars Im positive of, its Not greyed out...

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=21_0094

In the diagram for the E92 M3, its also greyed out as #13 and the part description which usually would say Lock Valve, is also missing.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=21_0208

Go Figure....

I think I remember seeing on the forums years ago that the e9x did not have a cdv.

ric124 · 05-20-2016, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lx93

The MT on this car sucks. It feels disconnected and rubbery, auto rev match is nice and convenient for DD though. I personally have a manual M2 and wish I have gone DCT. It doesn't offer the mechanical tactile feedback like a good manual box and feels disconnected like a G27 steering wheel stick shift

How is it compared to your M235i? Does it feel the same or is it worst?

Cpdbeemer · 05-20-2016, 04:30 AM

Romo / dammitcubs good feedback thanks. Currently trying to decide which way to go and maybe manual is the way. Can't believe it has the rev matching though.

Nahlem · 05-20-2016, 06:13 AM

Well tbh i choose the manual but i did try the DCT M2 it was great fun and so nice to have in the city and not needing to shift every time i had to slow down or go over a bump. I do drive quite a bit in the city and the fuel consumption is ridiculous with the manual. And constantly shifting gears gets a bit frustrating when you drive 100-200 meters then brake-shift down-accelerate-shift up etc....

But the feeling of controlling your car is lost, Yeah you got those paddles you cut the 0-60 times, But its like missing something without the manual i find my self less focused on the driving and having a little bit time over to look around at the scenery when driving cause well the car just does everything for you. Just gas and brake unless you got in to "Manual" mode but it still not the same thing. I don't know i might still be to young to go fully auto but the future is moving towards that and manuals are a becoming more rare. So i am glad that they offer the M2 with manual gearbox but maybe they could have made that the rev matching feature on the car can be turned on and off.

M3 Adjuster · 05-20-2016, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atxsk8r

Still waiting on my manual M2 to arrive but i did test drive a manual M3 multiple times and liked it, enjoyed the rev matching also.

I currently have DCT but going back to manual to mix it up. Plus when i drive my DCT now, i always use the gear lever (using the paddles feel lame to me) to shift pretending it was a manual lol

:

Goons · 05-31-2016, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dammitcubs

It is annoying that once the shifter starts into the gate, the sensor is trigger and then a blip happens. but alot of times when im going to a stop, i usually just coast in N and it's green again, I just put into gear and it doesn't blip then and I just manually blip it. Overall, i'm not annoyed by it.

:

Thank you for posting this tidbit, as the devil is in the details. I have the same driving habit in my gt4, and when I am done coasting in neutral and go to re-engage a gear I get a rev-matched blip. I usually slip it into 2nd or 3thd, and carry on. The only time it doesn't blip in the gt4 is when Crawling along and engaging 1st gear. It will still blip into 1st, when driving at a faster pace.

I have to admit, I am absolutely hooked on the auto-rev match and don't want to buy a manual trna,is soon car without it.

05-19-2016, 02:52 PM	#23
BruceM Major 985 Rep 1,153 Posts Drives: '17 6MT MG M2,930,Jag XKR 5.0 Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Seattle iTrader: (0)	Wait, I take it all back! I drove a DCT M2 at the dealer, and then went back out right away in an M4 so I could do a back-to-back. So my comments above were only about the M4 box. I understand it may be the same box (which is part of the reason I wanted to test drive the M4), but still, I should make that clear... I should also say that those comments are relative to my own experience and cars, which were until recently the aforementioned modded E36 M, and even now a 930, which has a hydraulic G50 tranny but a racing-style puck clutch that is a leg press with each shift. Coming from those cars, I could barely even feel resistance in the M4...
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05-19-2016, 02:57 PM	#24
boostm3 Lieutenant Colonel 683 Rep 1,608 Posts Drives: '18 LBB M2 6MT Exec Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Parkland, Fl iTrader: (0)	Since nobody's mentioned it, Im assuming nobody's been bothered by the infamous Clutch Delay Valve (CDV) that comes on these cars? ... When shifting mainly from first to second under had acceleration, the valve usually produces a nasty 'stutter' or 'jolt'. __________________ Boostm3 '18 LBB MT M2 Exec pkg, Moonroof, Production 7/6/17
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05-19-2016, 03:52 PM	#27
ChrisK Major General 4449 Rep 7,594 Posts Drives: '19 M2C Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chicagoland iTrader: (7) Garage List 2019 BMW M2C [7.00] 2015 Porsche Macan S [0.00]	CDV have never been put on m-cars. __________________ www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com 2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
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05-19-2016, 04:11 PM	#28
chris719 Major General 7334 Rep 7,294 Posts Drives: '08 M Roadster Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NJ iTrader: (0)	Untrue. Z4M and E46 M3 had a CDV. I would disagree on the effect it produces, however. It just delays the engagement action a bit; it's most noticeable starting, launching, or parking. Having driven 10k+ miles before I removed mine, I don't think it really causes the 1->2 shift to be less smooth. At least, not the primary contributor.
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05-19-2016, 04:16 PM	#30
dammitcubs Captain 584 Rep 689 Posts Drives: '16 M2 LBB Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: San Jose iTrader: (0)	Im currently driving the MT version now and so far I'm happy I went with the manual. Even through DCT is faster, you can't beat manual even with some negatives. Rev-Matching It works, it's pretty good. It's sad to see that you have to turn off the Nannies to use do the rev-matching yourself but overall it's pretty good. There were times when I downshifted from 6 all the way to 3 and it was super smooth. I was like (man...i wish i can do that myself...). It is annoying that once the shifter starts into the gate, the sensor is trigger and then a blip happens. but alot of times when im going to a stop, i usually just coast in N and it's green again, I just put into gear and it doesn't blip then and I just manually blip it. Overall, i'm not annoyed by it. Rubber shifter I kinda understand what people are talking about when they say rubbery, it's that the gate open seems to have some resistance if you aren't at the perfect load. But overall, it's still pretty smooth. ONLY Reverse is the annoying one but that's probably done on purpose for safetly. It's alot smoother than the 5MT on the EVO X so I really can't complain there. Side notes: It's pretty interesting that the car 1st or Reverse will add gas once you get the friction point. I don't even use my gas pedal as much. But when i need to push it, then it's a different story. overall.....
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05-19-2016, 04:34 PM	#32
Mad One New Member 11 Rep 29 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: May 2011 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	"QUOTE by ChrisK CDV have never been put on m-cars." My 1M had a CDV. Had the dealer remove it and after shifting action was much more in tune with my clutch movement.
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05-20-2016, 04:30 AM	#41
Cpdbeemer Second Lieutenant 53 Rep 248 Posts Drives: M235i & X6 5.0 Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Sydney and Dubai iTrader: (0)	Romo / dammitcubs good feedback thanks. Currently trying to decide which way to go and maybe manual is the way. Can't believe it has the rev matching though. __________________
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05-20-2016, 06:13 AM	#42
Nahlem Captain 1144 Rep 892 Posts Drives: None atm Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Sweden iTrader: (0) Garage List 2022 BMW i4 m50 [10.00]	Well tbh i choose the manual but i did try the DCT M2 it was great fun and so nice to have in the city and not needing to shift every time i had to slow down or go over a bump. I do drive quite a bit in the city and the fuel consumption is ridiculous with the manual. And constantly shifting gears gets a bit frustrating when you drive 100-200 meters then brake-shift down-accelerate-shift up etc.... But the feeling of controlling your car is lost, Yeah you got those paddles you cut the 0-60 times, But its like missing something without the manual i find my self less focused on the driving and having a little bit time over to look around at the scenery when driving cause well the car just does everything for you. Just gas and brake unless you got in to "Manual" mode but it still not the same thing. I don't know i might still be to young to go fully auto but the future is moving towards that and manuals are a becoming more rare. So i am glad that they offer the M2 with manual gearbox but maybe they could have made that the rev matching feature on the car can be turned on and off. __________________ Current Car: Bicycle Former Car:BMW i4 M50 Brooklyn Grey (MY22)\| BMW i3s BEV (MY19)\|Former Car: BMW X1 20d x-drive (MY16)\|BMW m235i (MY14)\|Former Car: BMW 120d (MY12)\|Former Car: Volvo C30 T5 R-Design (MY08)\|Former Car: Volvo C70 T5 (MY06)\|Former Car: Volvo S40 2.0T(MY1999)
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