[RPM2-85]

426trq to the wheels really is no joke tho. Confirmed exactly what I believed this setup was making. Off the line, it really is hard to beat. It needs wider rubber, and with wider tires I wonder what kind of launch times we would see??

No doubt in my mind you will see the HP once the car is run in at higher RPMs for a while. Just needs to adapt.

The pull to the wheels at the low end is the addicting part. These engines are torque monsters. This is a record for a stock turbo N55 no?

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by RPM2-85

426trq to the wheels really is no joke tho. Confirmed exactly what I believed this setup was making. Off the line, it really is hard to beat. It needs wider rubber, and with wider tires I wonder what kind of launch times we would see??

No doubt in my mind you will see the HP once the car is run in at higher RPMs for a while. Just needs to adapt.

The pull to the wheels at the low end is the addicting part. These engines are torque monsters. This is a record for a stock turbo N55 no?

He has a stock turbo for now, says he's doing stage 4 in a couple of weeks.

If you assume a 12% drivetrain loss, 426 equates to 484 for the masses, huge number.

[bi0hazard]

Those hp #s look off based on other dynos.

Tuner gain 8hp(??)/30tq
DP gain 14hp(??)/22tq

The combo doesn't look very helpful given the low hp gain. The car really doesn't need more torque, as it struggles to put it down with tuner alone.

I'm definitely going with 285 or 295s in the back when it's time for tires.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

I just emailed SeanWRT the graph. He will upload.

See attached graph which is very informative. There must be timing pull with running +4psi up top. Probably isn't a good idea with stock turbo even with DP.

That said, it's going to be an incredible street monster having torque come overwhelmingly hard and early - it must feel even more alive than the bigger turbo n55 that's trading a little bit spool up for top end that is lacking.

[BAN_M2C]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Very informative graph!
Apparently running +4psi up top isn't a good idea even with DP.

So you are thinking its the combo making it go into safe mode?

I thought RPM2-85 was running downpipe and dinan tuner? I might be completely wrong!

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by EL BAN

So you are thinking its the combo making it go into safe mode?

I thought RPM2-85 was running downpipe and dinan tuner? I might be completely wrong!

Doesn't like going into safe mode or something as it pulls all the way to 7k. It should be timing pull if anything.

[SeanWRT]

For comparison purpose.

M2 manual on DP/IC with Dinantronics stage one makes close to 360WHP and 400WTQ, compared to 335whp/425wtq on sport tuner with DP (w/o IC).

Difference is torques with stage one doesn't fall on its face up top, with less boost and better IAT managing capability.

It turns out Dinan Engineering was wrong about with DP sport tuner making more power than stage one. LOL

[bi0hazard]

It's hard to draw conclusions from different dynos. Dinan numbers are all over the place, and stage 4 so far not so impressive.

[RPM2-85]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Doesn't like going into safe mode or something as it pulls all the way to 7k. It should be timing pull if anything.

My car pulls absolutely nothing up top. Goes to redline. Like I said it took a good while for things to adapt and for it to really pull hard to redline. The torque was instant.


I guess I will have to dyno my car soon....

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by RPM2-85

My car pulls absolutely nothing up top. Goes to redline. Like I said it took a good while for things to adapt and for it to really pull hard to redline. The torque was instant.


I guess I will have to dyno my car soon....

How long did it take to adapt and what did you notice before it was adapted? Was it pulling timing or running poorly at higher RPMs before it "learned"? Or, did it run fine up to redline from day 1 of the install and you gradually noticed more and more power up top as it learned?

[Bretts02]

Originally Posted by RPM2-85

My car pulls absolutely nothing up top. Goes to redline. Like I said it took a good while for things to adapt and for it to really pull hard to redline. The torque was instant.


I guess I will have to dyno my car soon....

I second this. The engine management will always start conservative when getting into the higher RPMs. A couple pulls after the electronics have had time to adapt will tell the real story.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by Bretts02

I second this. The engine management will always start conservative when getting into the higher RPMs. A couple pulls after the electronics have had time to adapt will tell the real story.

Truth is exactly the opposite - it starts with aggressive timing and only pulls it when denotation is detected. For example, pour in E50 you instantly get 350+whp (assuming 330whp on 91), it takes zero sec to adapt.

Timing pull reflects the high IAT, a result of inefficiency of turbo and poor IAT cooling system, running like that long term will not improve the situation, it hurts engine if anything.

ECU adaptation is more about driver driving habit (throttle). ECU see a myriad of different signals when piggyback is installed so it starts to adapt to the new "habit". When it's done adapting, smoothness will improve but end power difference will be minimal.

I don't know how many people still like putting +4psi throughout the band to an already close to maxed out n55 tune from factory. The sport tuner is very much designed for low factory boost n20 n55 applications. Using it on m2 will set boost target to 19psi, which is even harder than the jb4 race gas map (17psi) would do to m235 (think what kind of gas are you using?) It's f*kin suicidal running it long term. In addition, it tricks only MAP and TMAP and leave fuel mixture and timing behind, a very premature way of making power.

If you really have to use TMAP based piggyback, I would suggest dialing it back to +2 (still 17psi additive target for you to run on), if you don't want your n55 detonate at mid and die on top end.

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Truth is exactly the opposite - it starts with aggressive timing and only pulls it when denotation is detected. For example, pour in E50 you instantly get 350+whp (assuming 330whp on 91), it takes zero sec to adapt.

Timing pull reflects the high IAT, a result of inefficiency of turbo and poor IAT cooling system, running like that long term will not improve the situation, it hurts engine if anything.

ECU adaptation is more about driver driving habit (throttle). ECU see a myriad of different signals when piggyback is installed so it starts to adapt to the new "habit". When it's done adapting, smoothness will improve but end power difference will be minimal.

I don't know how many people still like putting +4psi throughout the band to an already close to maxed out n55 tune from factory. The sport tuner is very much designed for low factory boost n20 n55 applications. Using it on m2 will set boost target to 19psi, which is even harder than the jb4 race gas map (17psi) would do to m235 (think what kind of gas are you using?) It's f*kin suicidal running it long term. In addition, it tricks only MAP and TMAP and leave fuel mixture and timing behind, a very premature way of making power.

If you really have to use TMAP based piggyback, I would suggest dialing it back to +2 (still 17psi additive target for you to run on), if you don't want your n55 detonate at mid and die on top end.

In reality, per Dinan_Engineering "the SPORT unit realistically caps out at about 2-2.5 PSI over stock with the stock turbos. While you can turn it up more its just creating heat at that point with no actual benefit".

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

In reality, per Dinan_Engineering "the SPORT unit realistically caps out at about 2-2.5 PSI over stock with the stock turbos. While you can turn it up more its just creating heat at that point with no actual benefit".

I was told the same thing.

Apparently targeting +4 and hitting it are different things. You will not want to set an unachievable target, otherwise turbo would be constantly working and pass through the efficiency point where making boost results in less power because of the less dense intake air and the retarded timing out of the excessive heat and rocketing IAT. Now is even the colder climate of the year...

In addition, PWM as a load indicator will be high most of the time so turbo or the entire system wears out much faster.

Piggyback is all about finding a good boost point and adjusting all the concerned parameters - fuel mixture, timing & etc - to support it. Sport tuner with +4 throughout the band fails to do any of them.

Glad you are moving on to stage four, a much much more sophisticated package that should take care of everything.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by bi0hazard

It's hard to draw conclusions from different dynos. Dinan numbers are all over the place, and stage 4 so far not so impressive.

Take a look at how torque holds up - one goes from 420 down low to 200 up top, the other 400 to 300. This alone should explain a lot, regardless of peak power difference.

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Glad you are moving on to stage four, a much much more sophisticated package that should take care of everything.

With me having the knowledge of a novice about all of this stuff, it does comfort me knowing that the stage 4 piggyback takes 1.5 hours to install as opposed to 30 seconds with the sport tuner. All the necessary parameters needed to run a smooth tune will be addressed and covered under warranty. Like many others, I run this car hard. Limiting risk is a top priority.

[auf Deutsch]

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/att...1&d=1484529911

It still doesn't explain the 8 HP bump I got this time around. In this graph, there are spots throughout the range that show upwards of 30 HP gained from the sport tuner alone.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/att...1&d=1484529911

It still doesn't explain the 8 HP bump I got this time around. In this graph, there are spots throughout the range that show upwards of 30 HP gained from the sport tuner alone.

This time somewhere down low the gain is more than 30whp, that's when turbo is able to flow that much due to lower rpm and thus lower demand in flow.

You lose power up top because timing pull hurts more than boost can make up for. Repeated run puts hard test on your IAT managing system so you run inconsistently.

[RPM2-85]

I have zero hiccups to redline. Nothing pulls except the car..... Throwing an intercooler on shortly for the coming warm weather. Im happy and sticking with this setup until warranty expires and will then move to a full BM3 setup.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

I don't know how many people still like putting +4psi throughout the band to an already close to maxed out n55 tune from factory. The sport tuner is very much designed for low factory boost n20 n55 applications. Using it on m2 will set boost target to 19psi, which is even harder than the jb4 race gas map (17psi) would do to m235 (think what kind of gas are you using?) It's f*kin suicidal running it long term. In addition, it tricks only MAP and TMAP and leave fuel mixture and timing behind, a very premature way of making power.

If you really have to use TMAP based piggyback, I would suggest dialing it back to +2 (still 17psi additive target for you to run on), if you don't want your n55 detonate at mid and die on top end.

Sean, in your opinion, is IAT, fueling, or timing the primary concern with running the Dinan Sport tuner in the Race setting? Would a setup that includes the Dinan Sport tuner, the Fabspeed catted DP, and a Dinan intercooler be reletively "safe" for long term use or is it still falling short by not addressing fuel and timing adequately?

[njw]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Sean, in your opinion, is IAT, fueling, or timing the primary concern with running the Dinan Sport tuner in the Race setting? Would a setup that includes the Dinan Sport tuner, the Fabspeed catted DP, and a Dinan intercooler be reletively "safe" for long term use or is it still falling short by not addressing fuel and timing adequately?

I'm curious about the same thing. I was just about to drop my car off for stage 1, CAI, and Sport DP (already have MPE) but wanted to see the results here first, so I pushed back my appt.

Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet, can someone help recap which Dinan mild tune is best with this setup? Sport or Stage 1 for good results but safe long term?

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

Wow! This thread has exploded with great content! I'm loving it.

There are tons of questions being asked and a lot to get back to. A lot of it you guys have answered but I just wanted to reach out and let you know if you have any questions, feel free to PM me and I would be happy to get you some answers. If anyone wants to get set up with our Sport Cat Downpipe, shoot me a PM. I'd be happy to help.

In the meantime, here are some photos off auf Deutsch 's M2 on the dyno!