[Mavus]

It better not be above 3200 lbs!!

I am patiently waiting but also watching Cayman GT4, C7/Z06 and GT350/350R. 2015/2016 will be good years for enthusiasts.


BMW - don't screw up again!!! Ford and Chevy are making some serious machines now!!

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

It better not be above 3200 lbs!!

I am patiently waiting but also watching Cayman GT4, C7/Z06 and GT350/350R. 2015/2016 will be good years for enthusiasts.


BMW - don't screw up again!!! Ford and Chevy are making some serious machines now!!

My guess is that we will be lucky if it comes in at 3400 pounds.

Remember, it's going to have bigger wheels, brakes, DCT for those that choose it, and an LSD - that's all added weight. And the 235 is already a portly 3505 (with MT) in US spec. With the ZF, it's 3550.

Even with the removal of the sunroof, addition of a CF roof instead, and other weight saving measures, it is really difficult to shed more than 100 pounds - look to the M3/4 as examples - without getting into some serious coin to do so.

We can hope, but 3400 is my guess as best case...

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

My guess is that we will be lucky if it comes in at 3400 pounds.

Remember, it's going to have bigger wheels, brakes, DCT for those that choose it, and an LSD - that's all added weight. And the 235 is already a portly 3505 (with MT) in US spec. With the ZF, it's 3550.

Even with the removal of the sunroof, addition of a CF roof instead, and other weight saving measures, it is really difficult to shed more than 100 pounds - look to the M3/4 as examples - without getting into some serious coin to do so.

We can hope, but 3400 is my guess as best case...

There is absolutely no reason why it needs to be 400 lbs more than Cayman. It has to be lighter than 228i period!! 235i has some cheap materials and that added weight. There has to be one light weight enthusiast car in the line-up asap or BMW CCA is going quickly downhill and BMW can continue to chase Lexus customers.

We'll see if they are serious, I hope they are!!

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

There is absolutely no reason why it needs to be 400 lbs more than Cayman. It has to be lighter than 228i period!! 235i has some cheap materials and that added weight. There has to be one light weight enthusiast car in the line-up asap or BMW CCA is going quickly downhill and BMW can continue to chase Lexus customers.

We'll see if they are serious, I hope they are!!

Trust me - I am with you - my 235 feels much heavier than either of my 135s did, and that's not a good thing.

It's a tough comparo to the Cayman - which is a true 2 seat sports car - and it is physically smaller than the 2er. Bigger = more materials, so it's going to weigh more no matter what.

The main problem is that M cars are modified versions of normal BMWs. So whilst items related to performance are changed (engine, transmission, wheels, brakes, suspension, exhaust), the guts of the thing are still going to be like any other 2er. I just don't see a dramatic weight loss without significant manufacturing process changes - which costs a lot and drives the price up. Which I don't see happening...but we can hope.

[PackPride85]

FYI according to the BMW US website, the m3 is only about 15 lbs lighter than the 335i. What gets me is the fact that the m235i is nearly the same weight as the 335.....(all weights taken for 6mt).

[vantagesc]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

It better not be above 3200 lbs!!

I just don't see how the car will be that light, given what the M division is starting with (the 235i). Where would they find all that weight to lose? And are these weight reduction measures cost effective?

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by vantagesc

I just don't see how the car will be that light, given what the M division is starting with (the 235i). Where would they find all that weight to lose? And are these weight reduction measures cost effective?

I don't agree M is starting with 235. Each subsystem is a separate piece i.e. chassis, drive-train, panels, equipment etc. Material selection is the secret sauce including efficient engineering (deleting excess material from components).

I would bet you can save at least 300 lbs over 235I by using cloth seats, aluminum suspension bits, light weight 18" wheels, CFRP roof/trunk lid/hood, Li battery (my is 6.6 lbs vs. 50 lbs oem) and delete unnecessary electronics or make them optional. This is kind of what Chevy did with Z28. It can be affordable and fun.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

whilst

I knew I had a secret man-crush on you for some reason. Not only do we agree on most things when it comes to the 1er vs. 2er and hopes for the M2, but you used the word "whilst".
You're my hero.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

I would bet you can save at least 300 lbs over 235I by using cloth seats, aluminum suspension bits, light weight 18" wheels, CFRP roof/trunk lid/hood, Li battery (my is 6.6 lbs vs. 50 lbs oem) and delete unnecessary electronics or make them optional. This is kind of what Chevy did with Z28. It can be affordable and fun.

I don't think they are out to manufacture a track car, that's what 235i Racing is, I highly doubt M2 will be that much different than what you see with F8x in a more compact package with shorter wheelbase, which would sell great IMHO.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Man...it's close. I hope you are right, would look awesome on the M2.

Here, another picture of the LCI updated 3 series. Undeniably L shaped.

[vantagesc]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

I don't agree M is starting with 235. Each subsystem is a separate piece i.e. chassis, drive-train, panels, equipment etc. Material selection is the secret sauce including efficient engineering (deleting excess material from components).

I would bet you can save at least 300 lbs over 235I by using cloth seats, aluminum suspension bits, light weight 18" wheels, CFRP roof/trunk lid/hood, Li battery (my is 6.6 lbs vs. 50 lbs oem) and delete unnecessary electronics or make them optional. This is kind of what Chevy did with Z28. It can be affordable and fun.

This stuff does not add up to 300 .lbs IMO. Every BMW comes with a stereo, A/C, and some basic electronics. No way BMW is going to put a small and expensive Li battery in a car like this. Plus some additional weight might be added for additional engine/oil cooling, given that this car has to be more track worthy than a 235i.

Hope I'm wrong.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

I knew I had a secret man-crush on you for some reason. Not only do we agree on most things when it comes to the 1er vs. 2er and hopes for the M2, but you used the word "whilst".
You're my hero.

In my line of work, use of these types of words are an everyday occurrence. That can be good or bad, depending on your point of view...lol

But you're right - I think we look at these cars in much the same way - which is fun for sure.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

I don't agree M is starting with 235. Each subsystem is a separate piece i.e. chassis, drive-train, panels, equipment etc. Material selection is the secret sauce including efficient engineering (deleting excess material from components).

I would bet you can save at least 300 lbs over 235I by using cloth seats, aluminum suspension bits, light weight 18" wheels, CFRP roof/trunk lid/hood, Li battery (my is 6.6 lbs vs. 50 lbs oem) and delete unnecessary electronics or make them optional. This is kind of what Chevy did with Z28. It can be affordable and fun.

You're not going to see 300 lbs weight savings from what you listed unfortunately.

Look at the E46 M3 CSL. Radio delete, AC delete, CF roof, CF trunk ect ect and that only saved 240 lbs. So 300 lbs is absolutely not going to happen unless you want to build the M2 yourself from an M235i. Anything between 3300-3400 lbs would be fine by me personally. Sure I hope it was more than that, but I'll take it.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

It better not be above 3200 lbs!!

I am patiently waiting but also watching Cayman GT4, C7/Z06 and GT350/350R. 2015/2016 will be good years for enthusiasts.


BMW - don't screw up again!!! Ford and Chevy are making some serious machines now!!

We'd all love this but highly doubt it 3300 maybe 3400 let's see, hope I'm wrong. Only car to compare against is M235i, pointless comparing to Cayman.

[Mavus]

Well 128i is ~3k lbs with i6 and 2+2 cabin. Why is 235i 3500+ lbs? It is mind boggling.

If M really wants to build a fun affordable car they can but I agree they may not be able to if bean counters take over.

I am not comparing M2 to Cayman but am sure as hell comparing it to my 330i, 128i and 228i as funny as that may be. For $50K+ it better not be a bloody lb over 3200 for such a small car. I am convinced M can do it.

[Adem1534]

Pretty awesome looking

[vantagesc]

That looks great to me and still OEM. Where did that image come from?

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by vantagesc

That looks great to me and still OEM. Where did that image come from?

Yeah it looks really nice. Someone posted it in the normal 2 series discussions.

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1066192

[Colinv6]

I prefer those lights to the L shaped ones.

Also that looks no wider than M235i.

[TankerJoe]

I'm already planning my ED experience for summer '17!

[Aust350z]

Originally Posted by Colinv6

I prefer those lights to the L shaped ones.

Also that looks no wider than M235i.

Respectfully that is one of the much better M2 renders than the M235i front with a lip even the pro mags use.

[Seagull]

Originally Posted by Colinv6

I prefer those lights to the L shaped ones.

Also that looks no wider than M235i.

Originally Posted by Aust350z

Respectfully that is one of the much better M2 renders than the M235i front with a lip even the pro mags use.

I agree with you - 10x better then in the magazines - but I also agree with Colinv6's statement.