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BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 Discussions > "M2 CS" & "M2 CSL" internationally trademarked (unlike "M2 Competition" or "M2 GTS")

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      10-06-2017, 11:14 AM   #23
M3 Adjuster
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I think they have stopped thinking about what to call it for the time being...tired of the argy-bargy among themselves may be
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      10-06-2017, 08:18 PM   #24
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Is the M2 competition supposed to relate to the M4 Competition that was released for Spain only ??
That car was limited production as well and that could probably explain the 1000 units that dealerships are talking about.
I don't think these two can be compared.

The Spain only M4 Competition Sport edition was not a BMW AG product. It was simply an offering put together by BMW Spain built from off the shelf parts starting with an M4 with Competition Package with many M-Performance parts included. There was no "special development" for this car. The Competition Package was not offered as an option in Spain at the time, the only way to get it was by ordering this Competition Sport edition.

The M2 CS/Competition/orwhateveritsgonnabecalled is an actual BMW AG product undergoing extensive development. I think it will be one nifty little beast .
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      10-06-2017, 10:01 PM   #25
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There are horses and horses for courses + lap times matter for the top breed: if the M2 top horse would be M-DCT only, would that be a deal breaker for you, M3 Adjuster ? If it does, maybe get in line for the "4-seat cushy" M2 CS ("M2 Competition") ?
M3 Adjuster I have been asking you this question for a long time as well.

Whatcha gonna do when the M2 CSL gets an Automatic transmission only ??
No manual, no sale!

Since I have a 1M in the garage, then it's either

1- Check out the Porsche Cayman GT4 - (not likely I would pay for one )

2 - X3M- cuz if my next track car has gotta be cushy with 4 seats - then it might as well haul the groceries.

I'm totally serious on this. If indeed so far .. bmw will make the M2, the M2 zl9, and the M2 CS all Both 6MT and DCT they can certainly make the CSL both as well.

Personally. I would prefer the M2 CSL be 6MT only.. as homage/throwback ala the 1 series M coupe and the Cayman GT4 , plus that might give the M4 GTS a fighting chance at having slight edge over the M2 CSL.


I seriously cannot imagine bmw making an S55 Water injected M2 CSL , and allowing it to slay the M4 GTS.



1M Tex and I are first and second in line at a local dealer. Provided we don't get pimped, lol , the dealer has me first for M2 future progress. I've already agreed to switch spots to second to await the CSL as he would prefer CS.
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      10-07-2017, 01:22 AM   #26
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Nice CSL Bitches !!!
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      10-07-2017, 07:03 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
No manual, no sale!
Since I have a 1M in the garage, then it's either
1- Check out the Porsche Cayman GT4 - (not likely I would pay for one )
2 - X3M- cuz if my next track car has gotta be cushy with 4 seats - then it might as well haul the groceries.
I'm totally serious on this. If indeed so far .. bmw will make the M2, the M2 zl9, and the M2 CS all Both 6MT and DCT they can certainly make the CSL both as well.
Personally. I would prefer the M2 CSL be 6MT only.. as homage/throwback ala the 1 series M coupe and the Cayman GT4 , plus that might give the M4 GTS a fighting chance at having slight edge over the M2 CSL.
I seriously cannot imagine bmw making an S55 Water injected M2 CSL , and allowing it to slay the M4 GTS.
1M Tex and I are first and second in line at a local dealer. Provided we don't get pimped, lol , the dealer has me first for M2 future progress. I've already agreed to switch spots to second to await the CSL as he would prefer CS.
Of course BMW can offer an M2 CSL 6MT, but I doubt that's gonna happen. IMHO - alike for the M4 GTS and M4 CS - the M2 CSL will be 'M-DCT only'.

The only objective reason I can see for BMW offering the M2 CSL as 'manual only', is for a 25 kg weight saving reason (weight difference 6MT [1495 kg] versus M-DCT + additional (transmission) oil cooler [1520 kg]) and some added reputation rights. But 0-100 km/h and 0-200km/h times + lap times will matter more (to beat or tailgate track-tools on offer by competing brands), and so you can kiss the manual gearbox goodbye for this top-of-the-range M2.

Let me tell you this story again.

Early 2014 Porsche released the Cayman GTS. During Summer 2014, merely by chance, I encountered a white Cayman GTS with manual gearbox on a mountain pass in the Alps (we drove uphill and both stopped at the summit). It was a US citizen who was driving his brand-new Cayman GTS around during a Porsche European Delivery. I congratulated him with his purchase and his choice for a manual. He told me that the folks at Porsche had told him that his car was a rare bird, as the take-rate for the manual gearbox was only 5 percent (yes, that's no typo: "five"), 95% choosing PDK. So he had not read that info in some car magazine or on a dedicated forum - no, he got that info straight from the horse's mouth when taking delivery at Porsche in Germany.

Needless to say that I was a little skeptical when just a few months later (February 2015) I heard the great Porsche GT boss Andreas Preuninger explaining that the Cayman GT4 was 'manual only' "because we listened to our customers". To my ears, though well-presented (AP is truly an ace on top of his case, who deserves all our respect, also by repeatedly recommending to get a manual gearbox), that statement sounded a little too much like marketing talk to turn the attention away from the fact that, in the twisties, the vast majority of 911 cars could barely, or even not at all, shake loose a (hypothetical) Cayman GT4 with PDK. In my view, the Cayman GT4 got a detuned 911 engine (385-ish hp) and the GTS manual gearbox (with that long 2nd gear ratio) to somehow keep it 'within its place/cage' in the Porsche hierarchy + an attractive price to ensure sales in case the usual PDK and 911 customers would be reluctant to buy (avoid a flop, as markets can sometimes react in an unpredictable fashion).

We all know by now that - alike the 2011 'manual only' 1M - the 2015 Cayman GT4 did not flop at all: it sold like hot cakes and even went down the automotive history books as an instant classic, for all the right reasons. However, if the Cayman GT4 had been offered with both PDK and manual gearbox, the vast majority would have undoubtedly opted for the PDK. Yes, manual gearbox sales could have been more than 5%, but still a rather low figure. By making the Cayman GT4 'manual only', you got inevitably a 100% take-rate + favorable winds of car press and enthusiasts in your sails.

I'm quite curious to know the manual gearbox take-rate of the all-new Porsche GT3. Yes, the press and enthusiasts rave about the manual gearbox being back on offer. But apart from top-notch quality and cool image, sales mainly matter for Porsche (highest profit per car of all car manufacturers worldwide): what do customers choose in the end ? Look for example at social media personality 'Shmee150': he raved about the manual gearbox for the Porsche GT3 during launch. But what did he subsequently actually order in the end for himself ? A PDK. For sure, if all press and enthusiasts would be customers, chances of manual gearbox offerings would increase. But, unfortunately, that's not the way how things work. When ordering a high performance car, lots of manual gearbox enthusiasts can be swayed and say: "OK, you convinced me, change that to auto".

Porsche's expectations about the new GT3 manual gearbox take-rate:
"It also gave chance to revisit discussion of the manual option with Andreas Preuninger. I start, cheekily, by reminding him that at the launch of the previous GT3 the PDK-only decision was pitched as a big improvement, largely on the basis of its faster lap times. "Well it is still faster on track," Preuninger says, "but lap times aren't everything, are they?" Preuninger stresses his ambition has always been to offer transmission choice - "like whether you take the ceramic brakes" - but limited development resources restricted what was possible. But he admits the PDK-only GT3 displeased some traditional buyers, with the huge popularity of the manual-only Cayman GT4 - and an increase in engineering resources - making the case. This was initially used in the 911 R, but the plan was always to spread the costs by offering it in the GT3 as well. Preuninger says he doesn't know how many people will opt for the manual - a zero-cost option tick in most territories - but reckons it could be as high as a third of production. "If it's less than 20 per cent then I'm in trouble," he admits."
(source: here)
Sorry for this lengthy but rather sobering comment M3 Adjuster, but regarding gearbox choice, bean counters got the upper hand in car companies.

Picture of my (former) VO 1M next to a brand-new Cayman GTS in the Alps (Nufenen Pass - Passo della Novena) in Summer 2014:



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      10-07-2017, 10:02 PM   #28
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Andreas is an enthusiast.

Most of those current project heads are not and that's why recently their stuff lacks an emotional punch.

Going on with their recent track record I wouldn't bet anything on the M2 CSL with a 6MT (even though that would be a logical choice in the eye of an enthusiast ) and that is if it even manages to appear in the end.
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