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      02-29-2016, 04:33 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by cc3
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Originally Posted by RingMeister01
BMW are recognizing what enthusiasts are craving....slowly. You just gave to be patient and cry like a butch so they hear you

Porsche is a niche market. It's a little unfair to compare what they offer to BMW.
If so then they need to give the M division more autonomy. At present M products are a bit too one dimensional. Yes they are nice but at present they just lack that special X factor. Missing that final half a star. M4GTS step in the right direction
The M2 is a huge step and followed by the CSL I think you'll feel the same way I do.
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      02-29-2016, 07:33 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
The M2 is a huge step ....
I don't agree. If it's a huge step, then it's a huge step sideways.
Look, the M2 is a reduced sized M4 with a less luxurious interior, meant for entry level customers. That's about it. Lots of tough competition out there for the M2. As evidenced by the fact it could not achieve the Car & Driver Editors Choice Award in its class.
I agree with the poster who implied BMW needs to step up their game, particularly in the design area. They need something they can point to as a halo car and which helps separate BMW from the pack. I expect they are going to resurrect the CSL badge to achieve that goal. Given its current purpose for existence, I just don't see the M2, in any form, as suitable for that role.
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      02-29-2016, 08:47 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
I don't agree. If it's a huge step, then it's a huge step sideways.
Look, the M2 is a reduced sized M4 with a less luxurious interior, meant for entry level customers. That's about it. Lots of tough competition out there for the M2. As evidenced by the fact it could not achieve the Car & Driver Editors Choice Award in its class.
I agree with the poster who implied BMW needs to step up their game, particularly in the design area. They need something they can point to as a halo car and which helps separate BMW from the pack. I expect they are going to resurrect the CSL badge to achieve that goal. Given its current purpose for existence, I just don't see the M2, in any form, as suitable for that role.
You mean this Car & Driver list?
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      02-29-2016, 08:49 PM   #92
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Or this one?
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      02-29-2016, 08:50 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
I don't agree. If it's a huge step, then it's a huge step sideways.
Look, the M2 is a reduced sized M4 with a less luxurious interior, meant for entry level customers. That's about it. Lots of tough competition out there for the M2. As evidenced by the fact it could not achieve the Car & Driver Editors Choice Award in its class.
I agree with the poster who implied BMW needs to step up their game, particularly in the design area. They need something they can point to as a halo car and which helps separate BMW from the pack. I expect they are going to resurrect the CSL badge to achieve that goal. Given its current purpose for existence, I just don't see the M2, in any form, as suitable for that role.
And which luxury brand has a small rear wheel drive car while also offering it in manual?
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      02-29-2016, 10:37 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
I don't agree. If it's a huge step, then it's a huge step sideways.
Look, the M2 is a reduced sized M4 with a less luxurious interior, meant for entry level customers. That's about it. Lots of tough competition out there for the M2. As evidenced by the fact it could not achieve the Car & Driver Editors Choice Award in its class.
I agree with the poster who implied BMW needs to step up their game, particularly in the design area. They need something they can point to as a halo car and which helps separate BMW from the pack. I expect they are going to resurrect the CSL badge to achieve that goal. Given its current purpose for existence, I just don't see the M2, in any form, as suitable for that role.
People need to get off this entry level customer BS. BMW knows that there is a large enthusiast pool of buyers that could easily afford to step into an M3/M4, but don't a want a high performance car that is wider (a problem the M2 also suffers from) and has a wheelbase similar to the last generation 5 series. If the thought of people purchasing an M2 because they couldn't afford an M3/M4 is what helps 3 series owners sleep at night then so be it. But it doesn't change that the M2 is the true enthusiast choice for a fun street car. Did BMW do some brand engineering to keep the price and performance down? Yup. If they truly offered an individual program for the M2 and decent options, M3/M4 sales numbers might start mimicking those of the M5/M6.

Having just DD an M3 for 6 months, my feelings are a that shrunken M4 with reduced power is the medicine for what ails the BMW enthusiast sect. While some will use this car as the gateway to the M brand, many others will use it as a gateway to fun. Those that that associate their car with their station in life, and there are a lot of them in this community, will cling to the notion of a less luxurious interior in the M2. The rest of us will just laugh at them for thinking that spending near S-Class money on a churched up 3 series makes it a luxurious car. The only reason for purchasing an M3 at this point is if you're a single or dual car family that needs 4 doors for the kids, think of it as the modern M5.

Last edited by redux; 03-01-2016 at 08:26 AM..
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      02-29-2016, 10:48 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush View Post
You mean this Car & Driver list?
The Audi S3 was awarded Car and Drivers Editors Choice Award in the Premium Sport Compacts category, beating out the M2 which is in that category.
http://www.caranddriver.com/audi/s3
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      02-29-2016, 11:03 PM   #96
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That report was in August 2014, the M2 hadn't been tested yet. Look at the premium sport compacts ranking next to the article, the M2 is ranked above the S3 now that's been tested.
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      02-29-2016, 11:08 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush View Post
You mean this Car & Driver list?
The Audi S3 was awarded Car and Drivers Editors Choice Award in the Premium Sport Compacts category, beating out the M2 which is in that category.
http://www.caranddriver.com/audi/s3
Read the numbers on the photos from the link you provided regarding the segment, 1 M2 2 S3.
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      03-01-2016, 01:13 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by fuddman
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush View Post
You mean this Car & Driver list?
The Audi S3 was awarded Car and Drivers Editors Choice Award in the Premium Sport Compacts category, beating out the M2 which is in that category.
http://www.caranddriver.com/audi/s3
You mad brah?
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      03-01-2016, 03:07 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redux View Post
People need to get off this entry level customer BS. BMW knows that there is a large enthusiast pool of buyers that could easily afford to set-up into an M3/M4, but don't a want high performance car that is wider (a problem the M2 also suffers from) and has a wheelbase similar to the last generation 5 series. If the thought of people purchasing an M2 because they couldn't afford an M3/M4 is what helps 3 series owners sleep at night then so be it. But it doesn't change that the M2 is the true enthusiast choice for a fun street car. Did BMW do some brand engineering to keep the price and performance down? Yup. If they truly offered an individual program for the M2 and decent options, M3/M4 sales numbers might start mimicking those of the M5/M6.
Exactly.

It's not about the price, but the size of the car and the ethos that BMW appear to be following with the M2 compared to M3/M4. BMW are focussing exclusively on the performance aspects and the drivers experience rather than also considering luxury (better interior) or add-ons (mirrors, roof). Not that the luxury or add-ons are wrong or serve no purpose on the more expensive M's and they certainly don't ignore performance, but it's a different market/buyer with different tastes and trade-offs.

In truth, the M2 is still a bit too wide and long. While smaller than the M3/M4 it's not that much smaller. Yet I'll take what I can get and not wait for a car they're never going to build - a full-fat M 1-series hatch please!
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      03-01-2016, 07:14 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redux
People need to get off this entry level customer BS. BMW knows that there is a large enthusiast pool of buyers that could easily afford to set-up into an M3/M4, but don't a want high performance car that is wider (a problem the M2 also suffers from) and has a wheelbase similar to the last generation 5 series. If the thought of people purchasing an M2 because they couldn't afford an M3/M4 is what helps 3 series owners sleep at night then so be it. But it doesn't change that the M2 is the true enthusiast choice for a fun street car. Did BMW do some brand engineering to keep the price and performance down? Yup. If they truly offered an individual program for the M2 and decent options, M3/M4 sales numbers might start mimicking those of the M5/M6.

Having just DD an M3 for 6 months, my feelings are a that shrunken M4 with reduced power is the medicine for what ails the BMW enthusiast sect. While some will use this car as the gateway to the M brand, many others will use it as a gateway to fun. Those that that associate their car with their station in life, and there are a lot of them in this community, will cling to the notion of a less luxurious interior in the M2. The rest of us will just laugh at them for thinking that spending near S-Class money on a churched up 3 series makes it a luxurious car. The only reason for purchasing an M3 at this point is if you're a single or dual car family that needs 4 doors for the kids, think of it as the modern M5.
Absolutely fucking nailed it. You could not have been more accurate in describing my thoughts and decisioning. Great post.
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      03-01-2016, 09:34 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by redux View Post
That report was in August 2014, the M2 hadn't been tested yet. Look at the premium sport compacts ranking next to the article, the M2 is ranked above the S3 now that's been tested.
From todays Car And Drivers web site:

" Presenting our 2016 Editors’ Choice awards—these are the vehicles we’d recommend to savvy buyers shopping in every category.
Our editors consider these vehicles to be the best cars, pickup trucks, crossovers, and SUVs for 2016. "

In the category, three car were in the running for that 2016 award and the M2 did not get it. The Audi S3 did.

As some pointed out, the magazine did, in a side by side comparison, (and using other criteria, I suppose) rank the M2 as #1, the Audi S3 as #2, and some Cadillac as #3. Despite that ranking, the editors of Car and Driver magazine chose to recommend to customers they refer to as "savvy buyers," the 2016 Audi S3 over the 2016 M2.

Having said all that, I have no intention of pulling my deposit.
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      03-01-2016, 10:05 AM   #102
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I like the way Andreas Preuninger from Porsche communicates with customers. Here in Geneva he has confirmed next GT3 will get a manual option. Next RS will retain PDK. Next GT4 will have 6 cylinders. 911R stunning car but only building 911. But says if popular need to find a way of building back to basics Porsche like the R but without R badge.

BMW M need to take note good communication with customers is important. Not just snippets fed out by Scott26 which are great but ..... Tell us more about future M products
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      03-02-2016, 04:31 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc3
I like the way Andreas Preuninger from Porsche communicates with customers. Here in Geneva he has confirmed next GT3 will get a manual option. Next RS will retain PDK. Next GT4 will have 6 cylinders. 911R stunning car but only building 911. But says if popular need to find a way of building back to basics Porsche like the R but without R badge.

BMW M need to take note good communication with customers is important. Not just snippets fed out by Scott26 which are great but ..... Tell us more about future M products
Totally true.

Our chapter booked Larry Koch and I have seen him as a speaker at ofest several times. It used to be a treat to have the M Brand Manager come to speak at BMW CCA events because it would be nice to have them drop hints as to future products. Prior m brand manager Erik Wensberg (?) did drop hints but Koch never did.

Even though he is no longer the brand manager , BMW CCA people always have him speak at events. After seeing/hearing the same boring story from him about 6 times now I always skip his talks at BMW CCA events.
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      03-02-2016, 08:42 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
From todays Car And Drivers web site:

" Presenting our 2016 Editors’ Choice awards—these are the vehicles we’d recommend to savvy buyers shopping in every category.
Our editors consider these vehicles to be the best cars, pickup trucks, crossovers, and SUVs for 2016. "

In the category, three car were in the running for that 2016 award and the M2 did not get it. The Audi S3 did.

As some pointed out, the magazine did, in a side by side comparison, (and using other criteria, I suppose) rank the M2 as #1, the Audi S3 as #2, and some Cadillac as #3. Despite that ranking, the editors of Car and Driver magazine chose to recommend to customers they refer to as "savvy buyers," the 2016 Audi S3 over the 2016 M2.

Having said all that, I have no intention of pulling my deposit.
That quote is from December 2015....... Two months before the M2 was tested, hence the "one to watch" shared tag with other cars on the list that had yet to be driven at that time.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...vs-and-hybrids

Having said that, I'm just a keyboard warrior with no intentions of buying either car.
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      03-03-2016, 06:11 AM   #105
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I have an Audi RS3 i thought it was a nice car for daily and have some fun.

But all i can say it s nice daily family car but fun in Corners no way. So i shifted the RS3 to my Wife.

I have an M2 on order for the special sideways moments and have new Focus RS as my daily fun machine.

I would never buy me any VAG products if Fun is in the same sentence.

Last edited by Advevo; 03-03-2016 at 06:20 AM..
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      03-03-2016, 06:34 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
I have an Audi RS3 i thought it was a nice car for daily and have some fun.

But all i can say it s nice daily family car but fun in Corners no way. So i shifted the RS3 to my Wife.

I have an M2 on order for the special sideways moments and have new Focus RS as my daily fun machine.

I would never buy me any VAG products if Fun is in the same sentence.
OMG.... the legend returns. How's the Focus RS? I've been eye balling picking one up after the hype (aka market adjustment) dies down. Do you mind giving us a comparison between the 1M, M2, and RS once you get some time behind the wheel?

Last edited by redux; 03-03-2016 at 06:42 AM..
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      03-03-2016, 06:48 AM   #107
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yes for sure.

My M2 comes week 17 or 18
Focus RS April but could be later because of high demand.

I drive the M2 on Barcelona race track on 4th and 5th april.
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      03-03-2016, 06:50 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
I have an Audi RS3 i thought it was a nice car for daily and have some fun.

But all i can say it s nice daily family car but fun in Corners no way. So i shifted the RS3 to my Wife.

I have an M2 on order for the special sideways moments and have new Focus RS as my daily fun machine.

I would never buy me any VAG products if Fun is in the same sentence.
That is a very cool fleet your family has
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      03-03-2016, 01:20 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
yes for sure.

My M2 comes week 17 or 18
Focus RS April but could be later because of high demand.

I drive the M2 on Barcelona race track on 4th and 5th april.
Advevo, the drift man! Are you going to do a part 2 of your 1M winter drifting video? I have watched it way too many times.

Congrats on the new cars.
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      03-03-2016, 06:04 PM   #110
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Lol yes i should make a new one.

But after guys like ken block it s no use to make a new one. Those are much more extreme and i don t have a complete city to my disposel
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