[twolegittwoquit]

Hi all,

I saw an earlier thread on this but wanted to see if there were any recent experiences.

I have a 2018 M2 I bought with 13k on it, it now has 23k, so still low miles. The car has many modifications, but isn't tuned currently... may have been n the past and I imagine it was driven hard. I've had no issues with it whatsoever. I've had the card for 1.5 years now.

Recently I drove the car for a bit longer than usual (I don't drive it very far that often). By the end of some highway driving and then stop-and-go waiting to exit an off ramp, the car developed pretty bad "judder" when engaging the clutch to first. No issues with second, etc. Only from a stop into first. This has never happened before under any driving conditions.

The next day, and since then (about a week now), when the car is cold there's no issue at all. Still, I have driven the car longer distances here and there and this issue never happened.

I read in some other posts speculation that heat soak could be impacting the flywheel, causing some warping that leads to rough clutch engagement. I also have no idea if the flywheel or clutch is not stock (so many other parts are after-market it's definitely possible, but I have no idea if that's a common mod for this car).

Has anyone else experienced this? Just curious, and while I will ask my mechanic, since this is new behavior, I'm curious if anyone else has experienced this. Could this also just be the clutch "going"? I've never had that happen in a car before so unsure what that feels like (again, though, it's not just slipping/not engaging, it's fairly rough judder/stutter).

Any experience you have to share is appreciated, again, just curious. Thanks.

[Joebie]

my e90 and my old VW golf do that on occasion, usually moreso when its really cold out. I could theorize at the cause all day long but i definitely dont know anything for sure.

on my e90 shitbox that i dont care about, i just intentionally slip the clutch a bit to get things warm fast, lol. I wouldnt do that on my F87 though!!

The clutch and flywheel in my e90 is relatively new too, so i dont think its anything going out.

It might to some degree be failing engine or transmission mounts, allowing the drivetrain more movement than it should and more easily creating a slapping/oscillating motion thats felt as judder in the cabin. This is a complete guess.

[jefe2000]

Originally Posted by twolegittwoquit

…the car developed pretty bad "judder" when engaging the clutch to first. No issues with second, etc. Only from a stop into first…
Has anyone else experienced this?

Yep, this happens on my ‘18 M2. I’m at just a tick over 40K mi (~64K km). I’ve assumed it’s just one of the quirks of the platform — this is my first BMW, so I’m just assuming.

It only occurs if I’ve been driving for awhile and I take it slow with the clutch engagement. If it get going quickly and limit the amount of time in the slippage zone, the clutch hooks up pretty nicely in first, even with everything fully warmed up. I noticed the judder is far more pronounced in Sport mode than in Comfort mode.

[ThreeStripes]

Experience this as well in my daily driven 2017. Got it with 1600mi on it, and it did it since new basically. This and the CDV bullshit where the bite point seems to move around is one of the few quibbles with the F87.

[ericlr1225]

Originally Posted by twolegittwoquit

Hi all,

I saw an earlier thread on this but wanted to see if there were any recent experiences.

I have a 2018 M2 I bought with 13k on it, it now has 23k, so still low miles. The car has many modifications, but isn't tuned currently... may have been n the past and I imagine it was driven hard. I've had no issues with it whatsoever. I've had the card for 1.5 years now.

Recently I drove the car for a bit longer than usual (I don't drive it very far that often). By the end of some highway driving and then stop-and-go waiting to exit an off ramp, the car developed pretty bad "judder" when engaging the clutch to first. No issues with second, etc. Only from a stop into first. This has never happened before under any driving conditions.

The next day, and since then (about a week now), when the car is cold there's no issue at all. Still, I have driven the car longer distances here and there and this issue never happened.

I read in some other posts speculation that heat soak could be impacting the flywheel, causing some warping that leads to rough clutch engagement. I also have no idea if the flywheel or clutch is not stock (so many other parts are after-market it's definitely possible, but I have no idea if that's a common mod for this car).

Has anyone else experienced this? Just curious, and while I will ask my mechanic, since this is new behavior, I'm curious if anyone else has experienced this. Could this also just be the clutch "going"? I've never had that happen in a car before so unsure what that feels like (again, though, it's not just slipping/not engaging, it's fairly rough judder/stutter).

Any experience you have to share is appreciated, again, just curious. Thanks.

It's normal. I had 1st gear stuttering since 10k miles. Less when the car is cold. more pronounced after stop-and-go daily. At first, I thought it was clutch going out but I've been running 550whp for 6 months, clutch hooked perfectly 4th/5th full rev range WOT. I just need to hold the clutch more precisely and longer at the bite point in 1st gear. CDV deleted btw

[ggggbmw]

Dang. So this is normal-ish. I was beginning to think I was going crazy. How could I be so smooth leaving the garage, and so bad coming back? Doesn't help that I have a steep driveway, and I have to feather the clutch as I hit the driveway and into the garage.

[David.m]

I think the issue is a combination of oem throttle mapping, the dual mass flywheel and maybe even the oem tune (power/torque curve). Around 9 months ago I got a new custom tune/throttle mapping and instantly no more shudder.

Mileage at that time was 120K km and I'd had the shudder since very early km. Like others experience I had no shudder when cold, only when hot & only 1st gear from stationary or near stationary, in Sport was worse (Sport+ worse again). The cause seemed to be letting revs drop (even just slightly) after the clutch started to engage, that seemed to induce some sort of resonance with the flywheel/clutch. The softer Comfort throttle makes it much easier to smoothly maintain/slightly increase revs as the clutch is engaging but not so in Sport/Sport+ especially at low speeds of a carpark or stop-go traffic. Problem with Comfort is the rev hang and almost delayed throttle response (& I don't like the higher coolant/oil temps).

I got the new custom BM3 tune and the shudder disappeared. This was my 3rd custom BM3 tune (1st from this tuner) and with all tunes I've had Sport+ throttle deleted & replace with Sport, so whether in Sport, MDM or DSC OFF I have identical throttle mapping. Even so with the 2 previous tunes I still had the shudder.

The new tune has 2 changes, in the BM3 Map Configurator we set the "Throttle Response (Sensitivity)" at 10% for Comfort Mode (Sport on S55), note N55 M2 is same as S55 here. Left the "Eco/Efficient Mode" (ie N55 Comfort) at 0.
This 10% setting makes the Sport throttle sensitivity identical to Comfort but without the rev hang/delayed response, so you don't notice any change in speed/acceleration switching between Comfort & Sport while maintaining the same throttle pedal position (at least within say 0-50% range).

Also the new tune doesn't have the low down boost of the oem or my other tunes (Jordan & another from a local tuner), instead the power curve is much more linear with max coming later and holding, the other tunes fell off a cliff after 5600. Aside from the shudder being gone car is so much more fun to drive, upshifting 3-5K rpm is perfectly smooth every time, no more short shifting

I remember reading a post recently from member Enabled where he mentioned a tune/throttle mapping he does for 6MT, if it does similar to what I have it's really worth considering. For anyone in Sydney Adam from Advan Performance did mine.

[ThreeStripes]

Really interesting analysis. What you describe with the issue itself aligns with my experience. More revs really do seem to mitigate it.

I’m getting a custom tune soon and throttle mapping is on the table to I may explore this myself. Thanks for sharing.

[twolegittwoquit]

Interesting... You'd think if heat soak was part of the issue then it would be worse in Sport, not Comfort, but must be some other settings that impact that.

Tuning this out (as well as cold start volume and the terrible rev hang) sounds really interesting. I've thought about a tune but this is a daily driver and I'm a little nervous about messing with that. Not to mention the power is just fine for me stock. On the other hand the former owner swapped the entire exhaust (high-flow cat), intercooler, charge pipe, intake so the thing is begging for more HP. Maybe one day!

[twolegittwoquit]

I appreciate all the replies. It sounds like this is a common theme, so I think I'll just see if anything changes. I still haven't had this return since that one occasion, it's just so odd to me that it never happened in the 1.5 years prior. I'm honestly surprised so many people have had this with seemingly no other issues, but it sounds like it's just a part of the experience, unfortunately!

[twolegittwoquit]

Ohh wow... so now I just discovered the CDV topic... that sounds really tempting but no idea when I can try to tackle that. It sounds like it's transformative for the car, though.

[David.m]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

Really interesting analysis. What you describe with the issue itself aligns with my experience. More revs really do seem to mitigate it.

I’m getting a custom tune soon and throttle mapping is on the table to I may explore this myself. Thanks for sharing.

I've been driving manuals for 45yrs and this was my first that had changing throttle maps (& my 1st turbo), I don't see the point especially in a MT. I understand the 'marketing' behind the Sport+ throttle, it gives the illusion of more power, but it doesn't make for better driving imo especially paired with MDM, the overly sensitive throttle hinders good corner exits. My track top speeds are no slower with the softer throttle, just need to use more pedal during corner exit.

I'm fairly certain the more linear power delivery alone made an improvement as it's nicer driving in Comfort than before (& Comfort throttle map is un-changed). I've not driven this tune without the added 10% Sensitivity reduction for Sport so not sure whether it's a combination of this & the tune that made the improvements.

It's almost 100K km since I got the AS SSK (then over time the other custom tunes, CDV delete, Rogue trans mounts, Turner rear poly + other mods not MT specific), it might be the current tune/throttle mapping has made the single biggest improvement to daily/spirited road driving.

Originally Posted by twolegittwoquit

Interesting... You'd think if heat soak was part of the issue then it would be worse in Sport, not Comfort, but must be some other settings that impact that.

Yes I found it worse in Sport (& worse again in Sport+ back when I had oem tune) and less of an issue in Comfort, in carparks I'd actually switch to Comfort. When moving off from stationary try adding a little throttle to make sure revs don't drop, for me this pretty much eliminated the shudder. Problem doing this in Sport+ in traffic is you'll often get too much speed and have to back off or run into cars in front.

[Kikuchiyo]

My 17 LCI started to do the same around at 35k kilometers on it. Mine is fully stock performance-wise. I’ve never tried to see the differences between Comfotr and Sport(+). I will try it next time it comes up.
Thanks for the advice!

[Harry_11K]

Same expiration here with a 38k mile 2018. After some extended periods of driving the whole car will shake violently during take off from a stop only. Unlike others i found it to be worse in comfort. In sport/sport+ im able to jump the RPM’s up so it helps. It happens most when im trying to take off smoothly with minimal throttle input. Usually ill rev it up a little more and just be fine.

[ThreeStripes]

I’m finding comfort to be far more cooperative leaving in first gear from a stop. YMMV but for me it’s helping.