[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

I've heard about the B58 rumour for a while now as well ,seems this guy has also:

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...4&postcount=54

It does seem to make sense with cost savings if only one platform is used in different guises.

Perhaps a Bookie could give us the odds on this ?

Yes, rumours of the B58 coming to the M2 abound, there is no doubt about that. From the data at hand I see it as a marginal evolution of the straight 6... not a paradigm shift or second coming as some present it... and I am not entirely clear if all aspects of the evolution are for the better in a performance car.

For the link you provided, what he describes for the "S58" does not seem to warrant an S designation to me. By that measure, the N55B30T0 should have an S!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

Yes, rumours of the B58 coming to the M2 abound, there is no doubt about that. From the data at hand I see it as a marginal evolution of the straight 6... not a paradigm shift or second coming as some present it... and I am not entirely clear if all aspects of the evolution are for the better in a performance car.

For the link you provided, what he describes for the "S58" does not seem to warrant an S designation to me. By that measure, the N55B30T0 should have an S!

Sure would seem like a B58B30T0 would be something they will make for several car models.

[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

I've heard about the B58 rumour for a while now as well ,seems this guy has also:

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...4&postcount=54

It does seem to make sense with cost savings if only one platform is used in different guises.

Perhaps a Bookie could give us the odds on this ?

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

Yes, rumours of the B58 coming to the M2 abound, there is no doubt about that. From the data at hand I see it as a marginal evolution of the straight 6... not a paradigm shift or second coming as some present it... and I am not entirely clear if all aspects of the evolution are for the better in a performance car.

For the link you provided, what he describes for the "S58" does not seem to warrant an S designation to me. By that measure, the N55B30T0 should have an S!

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Sure would seem like a B58B30T0 would be something they will make for several car models.

It's been mentioned before but I hope they've got their shit together with the timing chain issues re:The N20 as it's located at the rear with the B58,so an engine out job if it goes oops

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

It's been mentioned before but I hope they've got their shit together with the timing chain issues re:The N20 as it's located at the rear with the B58,so an engine out job if it goes oops

With all the x40i models already out, surely someone knows what the maintenance manual says about this.

[vinny84]

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

It's been mentioned before but I hope they've got their shit together with the timing chain issues re:The N20 as it's located at the rear with the B58,so an engine out job if it goes oops

I hope that's not the case. I'm too familiar with engine out maintenance as it is

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Lp01

M2 Competition will have a kind of a S58 engine. A tuned up version of a B58 with different pistons, aditional oil pump, etc.
BMW is secretly working in this engine variant for almost a year now. Using M3/M4 exhaust on test mules serves the only purpose of keeping their real plans secret. The S58 will have a higher tune for next M3 and M4 models.
I have access to privileged information regarding the M division bit I can't reveal the source or else I would have to eliminate each of you reading this post
This engine will be marketed by the end of 2017/ beginning of 2018 as 2018 models. It is probable that official permission for ordering the M2 with this engine will start at July 2017.
It is yet to decide by M division/ board members if a tuned up version of the B58 or a very tuned down version of a S58 will be equipping the base M2. It is decided to abandon the N55 by 2018 though.

And so the rumor mill starts turning in the opposite direction...

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by Artemis

And so the rumor mill starts turning in the opposite direction...

Attachment 1551955

Yes, so now for the M2 we have the...

• continued N55 camp
• detuned S55 (CS) rumour
• the tuned B58 rumour
• and the detuned S58 rumour

Any I missed?

Personally, I would be very surprised if they switch to the B58 for the M2 without switching to an S58 in the M3/4. They seem to have tied these models pretty closely together in design to date - with so many shared parts.

By the same token, if the CS comes with a detuned S55, I would kind of expect the "base" M2 to keep the N55. Would not make sense to move the base so far away from the CS version by switching in a B58.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

In what regards?

It's already well-established that it has more power potential than the N55 in stock form, and that it significantly more underrated from the factory.

Yeah, bigger turbo and thus more lag. Great!

[BIMMERGUY91]

If they would just put a hotter version of the B58 in the base M2 I would just take that. I just don't want an N55 based M2.

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by BIMMERGUY91

If they would just put a hotter version of the B58 in the base M2 I would just take that. I just don't want an N55 based M2.

Yeah.... it sucks

[ried]

Some people will never be happy.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Verdi

Yeah, bigger turbo and thus more lag. Great!

It does not have more lag. Look at a dyno.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by BIMMERGUY91

If they would just put a hotter version of the B58 in the base M2 I would just take that. I just don't want an N55 based M2.

Why not?

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

It does not have more lag. Look at a dyno.

Que? Does that really show lag?

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

It does not have more lag. Look at a dyno.

I hate to agree with PrematureApex but reviews have not noted a lot of lag either. Though that is in its x40i state of tune of course. With bigger boost (to bump up the HP and take advantage of that bigger turbo) some lag might become noticeable.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Verdi

Que? Does that really show lag?

Is that a serious question? Of course it does.

Each engine is capable of generating peak torque at like 1.2-1.3kRPM. Thus, the turbos of each spool VERY quickly, within like 100-150 RPMs of each other in fact. So, very, very similar in spool-up time.



As you can see, steeper ramp-up on the B58. By the time the N55 is making its 300 ft-lbs, the B58 is already making more. The B58 makes more power at every RPM off idle.

[mmmpassion]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Is that a serious question? Of course it does.

Each engine is capable of generating peak torque at like 1.2-1.3kRPM. Thus, the turbos of each spool VERY quickly, within like 100-150 RPMs of each other in fact. So, very, very similar in spool-up time.



As you can see, steeper ramp-up on the B58. By the time the N55 is making its 300 ft-lbs, the B58 is already making more. The B58 makes more power at every RPM off idle.

Dyno graphs are no indication of lag as they are static graphs not showing very rapid changes in rpm and load which is felt by drivers as lag when power/torque is not immediately available on the level which is expected from paper data.

[Verdi]

Yes it's a serious question. I don't know how this works but I thought a dyno graph shows what the engine produces throughout the revs. I also thought the lag is that slight delay between when you put your foot down and the engine responding.

Maybe you can make out what the lag is when watching the graph though?

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Is that a serious question? Of course it does.

Each engine is capable of generating peak torque at like 1.2-1.3kRPM. Thus, the turbos of each spool VERY quickly, within like 100-150 RPMs of each other in fact. So, very, very similar in spool-up time.



As you can see, steeper ramp-up on the B58. By the time the N55 is making its 300 ft-lbs, the B58 is already making more. The B58 makes more power at every RPM off idle.

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by Verdi

Yes it's a serious question. I don't know how this works but I thought a dyno graph shows what the engine produces throughout the revs. I also thought the lag is that slight delay between when you put your foot down and the engine responding.

Maybe you can make out what the lag is when watching the graph though?

I think that the dyno graphs only show lag in the gross sense, I agree how it crops up in terms of driving dynamic is another issue - especially when you are switching drive trains from that dyno'd. Which is why I noted that several reviews (driving reviews) have mentioned the lack of significant lag with the B58. That to me is more meaningful for lag than the dyno.

Noteworthy again that the dyno graph shown is comparing against a N55B30M0, not 0T0... so the comparison to the N55 is not really relevant.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

Noteworthy again that the dyno graph shown is comparing against a N55B30M0, not 0T0... so the comparison to the N55 is not really relevant.

Yes, my comment on the B58 making more power, everywhere, from just off idle was not relevant, my apologies.

However, the graph is still very relevant for illustrating how quickly the turbos of each engine build to their peak boost after getting on the throttle. The M2's N55 isn't going to spool any quicker vs. the standard, obviously.

[ClothSeats]

B58 has a water to air intercooler which should make it more resistant to heat soak.

[kiysersosae]

Originally Posted by Verdi

Why not?

And it all goes silent!

There is nothing wrong with the N55. In my experience whenever you get anything new it needs to go through at least a 2 year cycle before it is in a near perfect state, or at least better than first release, there are always hidden gremlins. The n55 is in it final years which makes it a solid engine, the B58 is brand new and will no doubt have issues early days... I would like it but not in the next couple of years