[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by m2ss

Is it like when your toast flies out of the toaster?

Lol! Kind of. I recall when I first got mine and was driving my daughter to work. I pulled out to pass someone and punched it - she was thrown back in her seat and just laughed.

Not purist... but fun.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Gitte

Spec'd out pricing is roughly similar (CAD market).

M2 as something to purchase and keep while i4 probably lease. I understand both would have amazing power, handling and quality as daily drivers (2 vs 4 door makes little difference to me).

i4 being electric feels good, but I can't imagine a better feeling than stepping in and out of an M daily. Then there's the value of an ICE in 5-8 years…

I'd welcome thoughts, feelings and comments - technical and spiritual!

I think if you move away from badges, marketing, etc., and compare the two cars on their merits, the M2 wins easily.

An performance ICE vehicle is more a driver's car--sound, weight/handling, etc.--and performance is close enough that it doesnt matter in most cases.

An EV is soulless, and it comes with a raft of headaches--charging, tremendous weight, higher running costs for many consumables, range anxiety, replacement battery costs, the potential for fire, and much more.

IMO, the value of an ICE in 5-8 years will be much higher than an EV. You need to expand your thinking on why EVs are being pushed despite their deficiencies, as well as what is going to get the job done in a way that makes your life easy and enjoyable.

[CalAcacian]

I'm currently cross-shopping a G87 and a one-year used Model S plaid. Initial price is almost identical for my spec'd G87 (fully loaded with carbon roof etc.), but I know that the long-term economic weigh very, very heavily towards the Tesla.

I have family that have owned multiple consecutive EV's, so I am very aware of the "limitations" they have, which are almost universally overblown. Modern Teslas have essentially unlimited range, unless you are a long haul trucker, if you have at home 220 charging. Hell, the Model S plaid gets farther on a charge than my M2 does, especially on the E30 blend.

I have free EV charging at my apartment and low-cost charging at my office. My F87 averages just under 20MPG at 400whp, and I would likely shoot for 600 on the G87, so fuel costs would be substantial.

I know that I will spend at least an additional 15K on the G87 on modifications between wheels, suspension, exhaust, and tuning.

Model S has essentially no maintenance cost beyond tires, and I am unlikely to modify it.

I regularly go to San Diego and LA from my home in Orange County, so the F87, while super fun, is not a great distance commuter and is pretty aggressive to ride in for passengers.

All that being said, it is hard to make the clear "right" decision on the Tesla. When I bought my F87 in 2020, it was with an understanding that electric cars were rapidly developing and would likely become the norm either through societal, market, or regulatory action. So I wanted something loud, ICE, turbocharged, and RWD that could scratch the ICE itch before I moved to an EV. I also assumed, at the time, that it was possible that the F87 would be the last generation of pure ICE M car. As it turns out, we get one more. So now I am stuck in a quandary between the two.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Neusser

I think if you move away from badges, marketing, etc., and compare the two cars on their merits, the M2 wins easily.

An performance ICE vehicle is more a driver's car—sound, weight/handling, etc.—and performance is close enough that it doesnt matter in most cases.

An EV is soulless, and it comes with a raft of headaches—charging, tremendous weight, higher running costs for many consumables, range anxiety, replacement battery costs, the potential for fire, and much more.

IMO, the value of an ICE in 5-8 years will be much higher than an EV. You need to expand your thinking on why EVs are being pushed despite their deficiencies, as well as what is going to get the job done in a way that makes your life easy and enjoyable.

You are not a magic 8 ball

But a great story teller at best…

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

You are not a magic 8 ball

But a great story teller at best…

Feel free to weigh in with your thoughts. We are allowed to deviate into the issues that influence the auto industry.

Provide an outlook for us.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by DanG

When you have to run a 50 foot extension cord it is as bad as it sounds.

Only one family in my area has an EV. And they go to charging stations to get it charged. They do not charge in their driveway.

There is also the ridiculous costs associated with these poor products.

Neighbors here purchased a Model 3 about two years ago. In order to charge at home, they needed a powerful photovoltaic system with roof panels and a large accumulator.

The system ran them about 75k. Add the price of the car in and you are deep into 100K.

That's right. 100k to drive a vehicle that at this point is nothing more than a city runabout. And that photovolt. system has a lifespan of about 7-9 years. I can't imagine what they will do if they need a replacement battery for the car and a set of new panels. The costs are truly incredible.

In addition they have a set of hideous glass panels covering the roof of their once attractive historic house.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Neusser

Feel free to weigh in with your thoughts. We are allowed to deviate into the issues that influence the auto industry.

Provide an outlook for us.

Here is a start…

This is not a Chevy Bolt forum

There are more ICE fires than EV fires

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Here is a start…

This is not a Chevy Bolt forum

There are more ICE fires than EV fires

You'll have to decode this rather cryptic post for us. Flesh it out for discussion.

Don't be shy.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Neusser

You'll have to decode this rather cryptic post for us. Flesh it out for discussion.

Don't be shy.

Troll much ⁉️

[CalAcacian]

Originally Posted by Neusser

There is also the ridiculous costs associated with these poor products.

Neighbors here purchased a Model 3 about two years ago. In order to charge at home, they needed a powerful photovoltaic system with roof panels and a large accumulator.

The system ran them about 75k. Add the price of the car in and you are deep into 100K.

That's right. 100k to drive a vehicle that at this point is nothing more than a city runabout. And that photovolt. system has a lifespan of about 7-9 years. I can't imagine what they will do if they need a replacement battery for the car and a set of new panels. The costs are truly incredible.

In addition they have a set of hideous glass panels covering the roof of their once attractive historic house.

Counterpoint: before I moved to an apartment, I had two 220 volt EV chargers installed by EV Pros in Laguna Hills (unsponsored shout out, one of the most professional and pleasant to deal with companies, with installation techs who took pride in delivering beautifully done installations), one was a Tesla wall mount, and the other was a 220 outlet to service a Volvo and now BMW charger.

They cost under $1500 each for install and involved some tricky conduit routing along the ceiling to keep it all minimally visible.

They have been dead reliable and have charged both of my parents daily drivers for years, and they go to the gas station about once every other month to fill the tank on the X5 45e for trips to the mountains etc.

The situation you described is an extreme outlier that isn't representative for 90+% of homeowner EV users.

[murderspice]

Off topic, but is there any merit to charging inside versus outside? I live in a suburban neighborhood and doubt anyone would be malicious with my cord.

[CalAcacian]

Originally Posted by murderspice

Off topic, but is there any merit to charging inside versus outside? I live in a suburban neighborhood and doubt anyone would be malicious with my cord.

In the extremely rare case of a battery fire, you're theoretically better off charging outside, but unless you're charging a Jeep Sahara 4xe or a pre-recall Chevy Bolt, the chances are so minimal that they're not worth considering. From a practical perspective, I always prefer charging indoors for the good of the vehicle's exterior.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Troll much ⁉️

Write out a coherent post and we can discuss whatever issues you like.

Can't do much with a few random words on a page.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by CalAcacian

Counterpoint: before I moved to an apartment, I had two 220 volt EV chargers installed by EV Pros in Laguna Hills (unsponsored shout out, one of the most professional and pleasant to deal with companies, with installation techs who took pride in delivering beautifully done installations), one was a Tesla wall mount, and the other was a 220 outlet to service a Volvo and now BMW charger.

They cost under $1500 each for install and involved some tricky conduit routing along the ceiling to keep it all minimally visible.

They have been dead reliable and have charged both of my parents daily drivers for years, and they go to the gas station about once every other month to fill the tank on the X5 45e for trips to the mountains etc.

The situation you described is an extreme outlier that isn't representative for 90+% of homeowner EV users.

The situation I described covers most EV owners in my area, including every individual in my neighborhood with an EV on the drive.

Almost no one here with an EV charges at home without a photovoltaic system, as electricity prices have gone through the roof as the government pushes people to adopt electric in place of natural gas, wood, diesel, etc.

A major component of the 2030 agenda is electrification, and they are going to charge you handsomely for it. The upper middle class can afford such trappings at present, but that will change down the road. The question is why would anyone do it at all? Might as well set 140k alight.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by murderspice

Off topic, but is there any merit to charging inside versus outside? I live in a suburban neighborhood and doubt anyone would be malicious with my cord.

Yes, batteries don’t like cold weather just like we don’t for long periods of time so it’s much more efficient charge and you’ll get slightly more range if you charge inside a garage

Additionally, I charge my current EV outside and I have for the last two years
The previous 4 EV’s I owned were lucky enough to have a spot inside the garage

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by CalAcacian

In the extremely rare case of a battery fire, you're theoretically better off charging outside, but unless you're charging a Jeep Sahara 4xe or a pre-recall Chevy Bolt, the chances are so minimal that they're not worth considering. From a practical perspective, I always prefer charging indoors for the good of the vehicle's exterior.

Originally Posted by Neusser

Write out a coherent post and we can discuss whatever issues you like.

Can't do much with a few random words on a page.

OK, I’ll try again.

Please stop trolling.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

OK, I’ll try again.

Please stop trolling.

You could try again in that you write out a post with complete thoughts focused on the topic at hand. Two to three paragraphs that serve as a point to start a constructive discussion.

I really have no idea what you are talking about.

You are free to try again.