[Boba1214]

Hi guys, I'm looking into camber plates for my M2C that I DD and will be taking to the occasional autocross and HPDE. I've been doing research on these but the threads I've read were from a couple years ago, and the consensus back then seemed to be the Millway Street camber plates for my application. I believe there's been a few manufacturers who have also come out with low to no NVH versions as well so wanted to see if you guys had any experience with those compared to the Millway.

I'm primarily looking for front camber to be able to get to -3.2deg (I believe this is sufficient to prolong life of tire?) Will be staying on stock suspension otherwise.

Thanks!

[D.Yooras]

Originally Posted by Boba1214

Hi guys, I'm looking into camber plates for my M2C that I DD and will be taking to the occasional autocross and HPDE. I've been doing research on these but the threads I've read were from a couple years ago, and the consensus back then seemed to be the Millway Street camber plates for my application. I believe there's been a few manufacturers who have also come out with low to no NVH versions as well so wanted to see if you guys had any experience with those compared to the Millway.

I'm primarily looking for front camber to be able to get to -3.2deg (I believe this is sufficient to prolong life of tire?) Will be staying on stock suspension otherwise.

Thanks!

I've had, an installed, many, many camber plates over the years so when it came to getting some for my M2 I did a lot of research. Ended up getting the Millway street versions and I have to say, other than having more negative camber, I don't even remember they are there. No real increase in NVH and they re-use the stock spring bearing which is always a good idea whenever available.

Not only that, but when I bought them the exchange rate was pretty good and there was no sales tax so that worked out well too. Nothing against the other camber plate makers but for a dual duty car the Millway streets are the way to go.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by Boba1214

HI've read were from a couple years ago, and the consensus back then seemed to be the Millway Street camber plates for my application.

These are still the ones to get!

[kthor703]

Another vote for Millway Streets! Not sure the max camber allowable, but I'm around -2.8 and still can dial in a bit more.

I had ground controls in the past on my m235i, and they were mildy noisy on rough terrain (clangs and rattles). Definitely enough to bother anyone sensitive to noises.

[LongRoofTDI]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

These are still the ones to get!

Would you be open to a private discussion about my build? I know compensation may be necessary. I would PM you, but I don’t have enough verified posts as I am new here!

[Boba1214]

Originally Posted by D.Yooras

I've had, an installed, many, many camber plates over the years so when it came to getting some for my M2 I did a lot of research. Ended up getting the Millway street versions and I have to say, other than having more negative camber, I don't even remember they are there. No real increase in NVH and they re-use the stock spring bearing which is always a good idea whenever available.

Not only that, but when I bought them the exchange rate was pretty good and there was no sales tax so that worked out well too. Nothing against the other camber plate makers but for a dual duty car the Millway streets are the way to go.

Sweet, thanks ! Did you buy from Millway directly?

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

These are still the ones to get!

When FaRKle says get it, you shut up and get it! Haha thanks for replying, been watching your videos for much of my mods (steering wheel swap, camber plate recs, your track days, etc etc). Thanks for contributing so much to the F87 community!

Originally Posted by kthor703

Another vote for Millway Streets! Not sure the max camber allowable, but I'm around -2.8 and still can dial in a bit more.

I had ground controls in the past on my m235i, and they were mildy noisy on rough terrain (clangs and rattles). Definitely enough to bother anyone sensitive to noises.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Boba1214]

By the way, I know toe will need to be adjusted back to spec after dialing in more negative camber with the camber plates. Will casters be thrown off as well or would that stay relatively fixed?

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by Boba1214

By the way, I know toe will need to be adjusted back to spec after dialing in more negative camber with the camber plates. Will casters be thrown off as well or would that stay relatively fixed?

If you're running significant camber,
you don't want spec toe or you will have excessive inner edge wear for street use.

I have minimal wear with zero toe running -3.0 camber

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Boba1214

Hi guys, I'm looking into camber plates for my M2C that I DD and will be taking to the occasional autocross and HPDE. I've been doing research on these but the threads I've read were from a couple years ago, and the consensus back then seemed to be the Millway Street camber plates for my application. I believe there's been a few manufacturers who have also come out with low to no NVH versions as well so wanted to see if you guys had any experience with those compared to the Millway.

I'm primarily looking for front camber to be able to get to -3.2deg (I believe this is sufficient to prolong life of tire?) Will be staying on stock suspension otherwise.

Thanks!

Take a look at Vorshlag and PM us with any questions you may have.

[D.Yooras]

Originally Posted by Boba1214

By the way, I know toe will need to be adjusted back to spec after dialing in more negative camber with the camber plates. Will casters be thrown off as well or would that stay relatively fixed?

The affect on caster is minimal and, even the small amount it does change it, will be the same on both sides. That is true of most camber plates that don't offer caster adjustment, not just Millway.

Side Note: If you're going to track your car you'll want to get a bigger front sway bar, 28mm or bigger. Camber only corrects part of the equation and the big front bar helps tone down the body roll which causes camber loss during hard cornering.

[Boba1214]

Originally Posted by D.Yooras

The affect on caster is minimal and, even the small amount it does change it, will be the same on both sides. That is true of most camber plates that don't offer caster adjustment, not just Millway.

Side Note: If you're going to track your car you'll want to get a bigger front sway bar, 28mm or bigger. Camber only corrects part of the equation and the big front bar helps tone down the body roll which causes camber loss during hard cornering.

Awesome, thanks for the suggestion! I'd imagine I will get into upgrading more components after I get some initial seat time in. I don't imagine I'll go "all in" on my first 1-3 track days to really push the car to the max.

Any recommendation on sway bar brand?

[D.Yooras]

Originally Posted by Boba1214

Awesome, thanks for the suggestion! I'd imagine I will get into upgrading more components after I get some initial seat time in. I don't imagine I'll go "all in" on my first 1-3 track days to really push the car to the max.

Any recommendation on sway bar brand?

Cheap but effective: Whiteline
Top quality: Hotchkis

The Whiteline is a 30mm solid bar so it's heavy but it's effective, three mounting positions. The Hotchkis is 32mm but it's tubular (hollow) which is nearly the same spring rate as a 30mm solid but much lighter. It has four mounting positions so it's better for fine tuning. Having said that when you're running that stiff of a sway bar minor adjustments don't matter as much.

Overall, the sway bar actually does more for the chassis than camber plates and costs nearly the same, or less. On my personal car I did the camber plates first, then the sway bar but if I had to do it again, I'd say the sway bar made more of a difference than an additional degree of negative camber did.

The development team for the M2/3/4 developed the car around a 28mm sway bar and trimmed the center down to whatever effective size they (or the legal team) wanted them to have. If you look at the stock sway bar, it's a 28mm bar with a 24mm step machined in the center section which effectively makes it function like a 24mm bar. When you get that high up in the bar diameter 4mm is a huge difference in spring rate.

[Talx]

Originally Posted by D.Yooras

The affect on caster is minimal and, even the small amount it does change it, will be the same on both sides. That is true of most camber plates that don't offer caster adjustment, not just Millway.

Side Note: If you're going to track your car you'll want to get a bigger front sway bar, 28mm or bigger. Camber only corrects part of the equation and the big front bar helps tone down the body roll which causes camber loss during hard cornering.

I found out that the big front sway bar was on of the most important upgrades for tracking the car, my front tires where getting eaten up on the inside tire wall becouse of the body roll, once i changed to the CSRS front bar 30 mm I was also able to run much more camber.
I’m also running the Millway street camber plates but I’m actually thinking of changing to Vorshlag camber plates becouse I do a lot of track days and it seems the the street plates from Millway are getting worn out.

[tom @ eas]

Tried them all, we really like the Millway plates, most are in stock. If not, we have regular inbound shipments so there isn't too much wait time.

[Boba1214]

Originally Posted by D.Yooras

Cheap but effective: Whiteline
Top quality: Hotchkis

The Whiteline is a 30mm solid bar so it's heavy but it's effective, three mounting positions. The Hotchkis is 32mm but it's tubular (hollow) which is nearly the same spring rate as a 30mm solid but much lighter. It has four mounting positions so it's better for fine tuning. Having said that when you're running that stiff of a sway bar minor adjustments don't matter as much.

Overall, the sway bar actually does more for the chassis than camber plates and costs nearly the same, or less. On my personal car I did the camber plates first, then the sway bar but if I had to do it again, I'd say the sway bar made more of a difference than an additional degree of negative camber did.

The development team for the M2/3/4 developed the car around a 28mm sway bar and trimmed the center down to whatever effective size they (or the legal team) wanted them to have. If you look at the stock sway bar, it's a 28mm bar with a 24mm step machined in the center section which effectively makes it function like a 24mm bar. When you get that high up in the bar diameter 4mm is a huge difference in spring rate.

Is the idea that swaybars flex during hard cornering, and with the aftermarket ones you've recommended, they would actually increase additional negative camber, thus saving tire life? And in street driving, I still get to keep the less aggressive negative camber from the stock camber plates, so sort of win-win for my needs?

[Boba1214]

Originally Posted by Talx

I found out that the big front sway bar was on of the most important upgrades for tracking the car, my front tires where getting eaten up on the inside tire wall becouse of the body roll, once i changed to the CSRS front bar 30 mm I was also able to run much more camber.
I’m also running the Millway street camber plates but I’m actually thinking of changing to Vorshlag camber plates becouse I do a lot of track days and it seems the the street plates from Millway are getting worn out.

So Millway Street plates saved outer tires from being eaten down while the front were being destroyed due to stock sway bars? Well that doesn't help my case if I want to save my tire altogether, both inner and outer lol.

It's great to save outer tires but if inner tires get worn, I'd still have to replace my tires prematurely... But from my research, I actually haven't seen anyone mention front sway bar upgrade to save inner tire tread, almost all just walk about negative camber to save outer tread..... So is it not that big of a concern?

[David.m]

Originally Posted by Boba1214

Is the idea that swaybars flex during hard cornering, and with the aftermarket ones you've recommended, they would actually increase additional negative camber, thus saving tire life? And in street driving, I still get to keep the less aggressive negative camber from the stock camber plates, so sort of win-win for my needs?

Off track the bigger sway bar is not necessarily an improvement from what I was told by someone who tarmac rallied his M2C (he even went to a smaller rear bar to improve traction on corner exit). As explained to me it depends on tyre grip, the bigger bar effectively increases spring rate in the corners & can defeat tyre grip causing slip. If it's only on track where you push the car that's fine, but if you also go to twisty mountain roads (which by nature aren't the nice flat/even surfaces you get on track) running bigger sway bars may compromise corner grip there.

[D.Yooras]

Originally Posted by Boba1214

Is the idea that swaybars flex during hard cornering, and with the aftermarket ones you've recommended, they would actually increase additional negative camber, thus saving tire life? And in street driving, I still get to keep the less aggressive negative camber from the stock camber plates, so sort of win-win for my needs?

Stiffer sway bars increase the speed at which weight transfer in a cornering situation and decrease the amount of body roll in that same situation. A bigger front sway bar would normally cause understeer on a proper chassis (ie, vehicle with double wishbone front suspension) but on a strut front suspension the bigger front sway bar limits body roll which helps in mitigating loss of negative camber during cornering. Less body roll equals more grip up front. Because you have less body roll you don't have to run as much negative camber to get more even tire wear for spirited and/or light track use.

Rear sway bars on these cars are generally best to be left stock or smaller than stock to allow proper weight transfer characteristics in the rear. A bigger front sway bar is a must for this chassis, there hardly any applications where the stock bar and/or a smaller front bar would be beneficial over a larger one.

[Boba1214]

Hey guys, my Millway Street is arriving tomorrow and I'm wondering if I need to go get an alignment done after installing these or could I adjust the camber plates myself to stock spec (around -1.5deg I think?) without needing an alignment? I am on stock suspension setup. Thank you!!

[David.m]

Originally Posted by Boba1214

Hey guys, my Millway Street is arriving tomorrow and I'm wondering if I need to go get an alignment done after installing these or could I adjust the camber plates myself to stock spec (around -1.5deg I think?) without needing an alignment? I am on stock suspension setup. Thank you!!

imo you'll need an alignment but it's worth taking some measurements of where your strut top nut is (eg in relation to the alloy brace) so you can at least have camber close to identical both sides until the alignment.

One other thing worth doing is painting a line across the moving part of the camber plate as the pre-done markings are not visible under the alloy brace. A painted line allows you to mark up reference points on the brace should you want to have different settings for track/street.

[Boba1214]

Originally Posted by David.m

imo you'll need an alignment but it's worth taking some measurements of where your strut top nut is (eg in relation to the alloy brace) so you can at least have camber close to identical both sides until the alignment.

One other thing worth doing is painting a line across the moving part of the camber plate as the pre-done markings are not visible under the alloy brace. A painted line allows you to mark up reference points on the brace should you want to have different settings for track/street.

Hi David, to be sure I understand what you mean, do I line up the white line to either Street or Track marking on the brace, as an example? I'd have my alignment shop mark both for me so I can easily switch in the future.

[David.m]

Originally Posted by Boba1214

Hi David, to be sure I understand what you mean, do I line up the white line to either Street or Track marking on the brace, as an example? I'd have my alignment shop mark both for me so I can easily switch in the future.

Yes, I just made those ref marks on the brace using a permanent marker pen and have marks on both sides for better accuracy. On the camber plate I used masking tape so I could paint nice straight lines across the top.

The street/track positions are actually reversed to what you've done in the photo, street is -2.0 & track -3.0. I also have marks on the tie-rods as increasing neg camber causes toe-out, I run zero toe both settings.

What my alignment shop did was set up the track setting, I then marked up the camber & toe-in, then they did the street setting and I marked that up at home. Changing the camber is reasonably easy, just have the front jacked up (at the jack point centre of stiffening plate) to a point where the wheels are almost but not off the ground, you're trying to have neutral load at the camber plate. When I adjust toe I have the wheel off the ground so there is no load on the tie-road.

Lastly just be mindful there is a limit to the neg camber setting if leaving the alloy brace on, screw '2' will go under the brace and become inaccessible so can't be tightened. For me that's -3 but I also had to grind off the little of the brace (& I'm lowered 10mm on Ohlins R&T). imo it's not worth the hassle if you have to unbolt the alloy brace each time,