[vrooooom]

I don't know why anyone would want to spend to buy another BMW crappy plastic pipe. I wouldn't suggest it even if it's now been reinforced. Mine blew but I'm running BM3 Stage 1. I took a chance and lost. For you guys in North America it's just a few days, for me it ended up longer. Next time though, now that I know, I'll just give my local address here and have them ship it to me straight from Taiwan.

[F87source]

Just went out for an insanely hard drive for 1 hour and 30 mins after installing my BMS aluminium charge pipes and BMS intercooler. I beat the shit out of this car for the entire duration asides warm up to ensure there are no boost leaks or hidden issues and then after some city driving I pulled over near the end of the journey to pop the hood so at this point the engine bay was fricken hot as hell. Oil temps got to 98C and coolant got to 85C so it was hot. As soon as the hood was opened I put my hand right on the charge pipe and guess what? It was warm and barely at that, it was probably around 30 degree Celsius and caused zero irritation or discomfort regardless of how long I held my hands there. It was cooler than a hot bowl of soup or coffee/tea in a paper cup, and I'd say when my macbook was running bench marks its case got hotter than the charge pipes.

So this probably debunks the crazy "heat soaking" conspiracy garbage that had zero proof in itself, and was exactly what I remembered about how hot aluminium charge pipes got in my m235i. I think the powder coating helps it stay more insulated and thus cooler internally than straight anodizing because it is alot thicker than anodizing. But yeah the charge pipes were not hot at all... I used to say if you wanted use heat wrap for the ultimate thermal rejection, but now I would say that is a huge waste of time...

Don't forget air is a really good insulator hence why aero gel works so there is a huge air gap around the charge pipes to prevent any direct heat transfer, besides that even if the charge pipes were to get as hot as the engine bay from ambient heating (my results show that they do not while driving and even some slow stop and go city driving) there is air in the charge pipe at the walls of the pipe that will stop alot of thermal transfer from reaching the air near the middle of the pipe so heat soaking shouldn't be a concern. Especially while the air in the pipe is moving fast. I will head back out to my garage in 30 mins to see if letting it sit in a hot engine bay changes anything. But like my CTEK power cable didn't get hot while tucked on the outer edges of the engine bay I doubt much will change because the driver side of the engine bay isn't as hot as the passenger side where the exhaust and turbo sits.


ZM2
VisualEcho
///M TOWN

If you guys wanted to know my quick results this is what I noticed. I will also try to do some slow driving tests on a really hot day as well to see if this changes. But I suspect the results to be the same.

[F87source]

Ok I let the car sit and still no difference, charge pipe is only warm at best.

Btw I forgot to mention for those who don't have charge pipes and want to test what I mean drive your car hard then touch the metal throttle body, what you'll notice is that it's not that hot pretty warm. Then the crazy thing is that the metal throttle body is significantly hotter than the charge pipes. So yeah the metal throttle body is already warm and not unbearably so and that's still hotter than the charge pipes. That should debunk this crazy heat soaking nonsense rumours about aluminium charge pipes. Note* stick your hands in the engine bay with care, I'm not responsible for injuries that may occur. (I slightly cut my hands on the air conditioner hose weight clamps trying to touch the charge pipe lol)



One more addition, pavement on a hot summer day is hotter than these charge pipes by a long shot.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Poochie

You have anything to back this up or are you all attitude only? I thought so..

Read the new posts...

I might buy an IR gun for proper readings but not sure what that accomplishes because I don't have readings of the stock CP and IAT's definitely get hotter than the charge pipe's surface when you drive hard during the spring and summer (its possible that the cold winter air can cool the engine bay down enough that the iats would be hotter than the charge pipes surface) or all year round including the winter if you have a crappy intercooler (aka the stock one). In which case the charge pipe would be radiating heat from the inside out, and a plastic charge pipe will prevent it from doing so further insulating the heat inside of the pipe...


So either way there are no cons of having an aluminium charge pipe now. This just reinforces my m235i experience where I had to check the C-clips and noticed that the charge pipes did not get that hot but it was so long ago I had to test on my m2 to be certain. And now I can conclude this is the case - heat soak imo is not a concern.

[Dasnub]

People need to keep in mind that manufacturers don’t choose parts simply because they’re the best at their individual job. There are many trade offs when trying to decide the design and materials- manufacturing cost, transportation cost, market variance in cost (will the material stay a consistent price on the market over the life of the car or fluctuate wildly,) weight, performance, emissions, longevity/reliability.

It’s clear that BMW set out to achieve several goals with the factory pipe. #1 is cost savings, as the ability to use an already sourced, manufactured, and stocked piece- one that has been used on the N55 for years in my models- is a massive savings over a complete redesign of a part for a low sales volume vehicle. #2 is weight savings. Emissions targets are extremely aggressive now and every little bit of weight savings is progress towards that goal. #3 is simply a simple failure rate analysis. Are we spending less money to replace this part under warranty than we would to design a new part? Because this already designed part is SO inexpensive, BMW has a MUCH higher tolerance for failure/replacement than they might for other parts. And after 50k miles, it’s no longer their problem.

There is no doubt that a metal part is going to have *more* heat soak than a plastic one. The real question is whether it’s enough extra heat soak to matter- in other words, is the car overheating or pulling timing due to a change from plastic aluminum? The answer to that seems to be unequivocally “no.” Tons of people are doing actual logging of their intake temperatures and seeing no performance degradation. So the question becomes- are you ok with a) spending more money, b) increasing weight by a negligible amount, c) increasing IATs by a negligible amount, in order to gain massive reliability improvement? Most people here- myself included- answer yes to that question.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by F87source

Ok I let the car sit and still no difference, charge pipe is only warm at best.

Btw I forgot to mention for those who don't have charge pipes and want to test what I mean drive your car hard then touch the metal throttle body, what you'll notice is that it's not that hot pretty warm. Then the crazy thing is that the metal throttle body is significantly hotter than the charge pipes. So yeah the metal throttle body is already warm and not unbearably so and that's still hotter than the charge pipes. That should debunk this crazy heat soaking nonsense rumours about aluminium charge pipes. Note* stick your hands in the engine bay with care, I'm not responsible for injuries that may occur. (I slightly cut my hands on the air conditioner hose weight clamps trying to touch the charge pipe lol)

One more addition, pavement on a hot summer day is hotter than these charge pipes by a long shot.

Wait until summer hits. I promise you that CP will be screaming hot driving in 90 weather and stop and go traffic.

Driving hard and with lots of MPH keep air moving through the engine bay and the pipe itself. That's not very representative of daily driving and the problem with using metal intake parts. It's the slow speed, daily driving that heats up the pipe. When you're not using much throttle, hardly any air is moving through the intercooler or CP, much less air moving through the engine bay.

Plastic is by far a better part for induction pipes and maintaining thermal stability. Cost and manufacturing is easier is cheaper as well, but remember, even supercar OEMs use plastic on their turbo charge pipes. If I knew I could get the redesigned BMW CP that has the much stronger, reinforced throttle body collar, I'd replace my FTP CP in a heartbeat. The problem is, I think most BMW parts vendors still have a lot of the original CP in stock and the part numbers remain the same. Very few dealers know that the CP was redesigned back in 2020.

[M Fifty]

"Some" grades of stainless steel have very low thermal conductivity - less than ABS for example. So, whether this is a good or bad thing is probably use case-specific.

But, back to the important stuff: Is under - or over - arm delivery more effective when welding the handbag of choice?

[vrooooom]

Should have checked my CP this weekend then. It’s always hot here and the traffic is the pretty much crawling all the time. 95 F.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Wait until summer hits. I promise you that CP will be screaming hot driving in 90 weather and stop and go traffic.

Driving hard and with lots of MPH keep air moving through the engine bay and the pipe itself. That's not very representative of daily driving and the problem with using metal intake parts. It's the slow speed, daily driving that heats up the pipe. When you're not using much throttle, hardly any air is moving through the intercooler or CP, much less air moving through the engine bay.

Plastic is by far a better part for induction pipes and maintaining thermal stability. Cost and manufacturing is easier is cheaper as well, but remember, even supercar OEMs use plastic on their turbo charge pipes. If I knew I could get the redesigned BMW CP that has the much stronger, reinforced throttle body collar, I'd replace my FTP CP in a heartbeat. The problem is, I think most BMW parts vendors still have a lot of the original CP in stock and the part numbers remain the same. Very few dealers know that the CP was redesigned back in 2020.

First off the last half of my journey home was slow city driving, sill no issues. My m235i experience was the same and I had er cp's since the first year of owner ship, I constantly check the c clip and water methanol nozzles and lines never noticed them being blazing hot seems like they cooled off quicker because they're low mass unlike the heavy bar and plate intercooler that retains heat easier.

Second off the hot charge pipes from summer city driving is due to intercooler hest soak causing iats to
spike to 50C+, plastic charge pipes will experience the exact same thing.... It's not from the engine bay in that area getting to 50C, if it was all of my adhesives holding on my water Injection hoses from my m225i build would have fallen off... So therefore it's not heat soaking despite the hot summer temps, it's radiating heat that a plastic charge pipe would seal in. You can easily see these temps via the tmap oat readings. Then compare it to an engine bay temp reading in that area, driver side engine bay is always cooler than passenger side because no turbo.


Like I said the latter half of my journey was city driving. It's going to be 30C in my city this week I'll be testing city driving with comfort mmode which has the lowest cooling presets.But like I said the heat from city driving due to intercooler heat soak is from the intake air itself not engine bay induced hest soak, a plastic charge pipe would experience the exact same except it wouldn't be able to radiate the heat as effectively. The engine bay doesn't get up that 50C mark on the driver side because if it did all the tape and adhesive I used to affix my water Injection lines on my m235i would've fallen off.


Plastic is only used on super cars to save money so they actually have profit, super cars have cost saving measures too don't forget that. They often share interior parts with cheaper cars aka r8 with VW interior bits, NSX sharing cheap bits from Honda. Don't act like they plan for plastic because it's the best thing ever. The skyline GTRs have nismo aluminum charge pipe upgrades for extra. The current gtr has a mix between rubber and metal. The only reason they use plastic is because it's cheap. If they had unlimited budget like hyper cars where profit is not a concern it would be carbon fiber, or preformed reinforced rubber like the turbo outlet on our cars - this is actually a really expensive process to mould the hose and affix it to metal couplers hence why the shorter less complex turbo outlet costs almost as much as the 3x bigger more complex plastic charge pipe. If bmw used a reinforced rubber hose like the nsx does for the m2 I wouldn't have upgraded.


Funny because if you'd gone for the new bmw cp design the tmap sensor mounting area is still susceptible to failing and so is the flange, nothing changes look through the threads here there is photo proof. Bmws design is inherently flawed with too much stress being placed on the flange and the tmap mounting point seems to be adhered and not being an actual casted one piece part. This means it can blow off the pipe.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M Fifty

"Some" grades of stainless steel have very low thermal conductivity - less than ABS for example. So, whether this is a good or bad thing is probably use case-specific.

But, back to the important stuff: Is under - or over - arm delivery more effective when welding the handbag of choice?

Over arm for attention under arm for additional support if it's heavy.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Wait until summer hits. I promise you that CP will be screaming hot driving in 90 weather and stop and go traffic.

The question here is, “so what?”

The engine of the car needs air to function. Whether you’re at 2000 rpm or 6000rpm, air is always moving through the pipe at a rate where it can’t pick up any heat from the material it’s moving through. The only time that air has time to heat to anywhere near the temperature of the chamber it’s sitting in is when sitting idle, and it is such an incomprehensibly small volume of air that it gets burned up within the first half a second you’re back on the throttle. It results in near-zero performance degradation.

Many manufacturers use plastic charge pipes because the truth is, plastic can be made incredibly strong at an inexpensive cost. The problem isn’t plastic as a material, it’s this particular chargepipe that was poorly designed. It’s very possible the newer ones are more robust, but you’re paying twice as much as aftermarket aluminum pieces to gamble that’s the case- when in reality there’s no real performance benefit anyway.

[Boostleak235]

So the argument is OEM plastic is better under hot temp stop and go traffic? You mean the kind of driving where our cars are puttering along, not even going into any significant boost levels if any? The rate of airflow under conditions/scenarios where IATs matter, that pipe can be made out of whatever point A to B material you want lol. That's your intercooler's job to set that temp right. Even if that pipe was scorching, the air moving through would be like you swiftly running your hand over a candle flame. It isn't sitting in that pipe long enough to shoot back up to pre-intercooler temps.

[XutvJet]

Fellas, the new BMW N55 charge pipe has a collar that's over twice as long as the original. It's a huge improvement and addresses the issue.

As for heat soak, yes, plastic will heat soak too but it's far more stable and resistant to heat soak. Aftermarket companies use aluminum for CPs because it's massively cheaper to bend, weld, and machine a CP rather than engineer a design, create a mold, and find an plastic injection molding company. It's crazy expensive.

OEMs use plastic throughout intake tracts because it's better for a multitude of reasons. Yes, it's also cheaper to make BUT again the R&D cost is massive. This is offset by the economies of scale of making thousands of a particular model and having contracts with manufacturers.

A metal CP heats up from all sorts of things. That throttle body will be hot, the metal IC we all tend to run will be hot, and all that radiant heat for all those screaming hot underhood components.

Will a metal CP cause performance issues? No. Will it fit perfectly like OEM? Nope. Will it be a more thermally stable? Nope.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Fellas, the new BMW N55 charge pipe has a collar that's over twice as long as the original. It's a huge improvement and addresses the issue.

As for heat soak, yes, plastic will heat soak too but it's far more stable and resistant to heat soak. Aftermarket companies use aluminum for CPs because it's massively cheaper to bend, weld, and machine a CP rather than engineer a design, create a mold, and find an plastic injection molding company. It's crazy expensive.

OEMs use plastic throughout intake tracts because it's better for a multitude of reasons. Yes, it's also cheaper to make BUT again the R&D cost is massive. This is offset by the economies of scale of making thousands of a particular model and having contracts with manufacturers.

A metal CP heats up from all sorts of things. That throttle body will be hot, the metal IC we all tend to run will be hot, and all that radiant heat for all those screaming hot underhood components.

Will a metal CP cause performance issues? No. Will it fit perfectly like OEM? Nope. Will it be a more thermally stable? Nope.

None of what you said is wrong- except for the fitment thing. Plenty of aftermarket pieces have shown to have spot on fitment. I had absolutely no trouble with mine.

I’m sure the new CP BMW engineered is more than adequate now that it’s been improved. The problem for most is that it’s significantly more expensive and it still isn’t known if it can handle much additional boost beyond stock, which is really why most people upgrade them. That may change with time as we get more information on cars with the new one that have got some miles under their belt.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Fellas, the new BMW N55 charge pipe has a collar that's over twice as long as the original. It's a huge improvement and addresses the issue.

As for heat soak, yes, plastic will heat soak too but it's far more stable and resistant to heat soak. Aftermarket companies use aluminum for CPs because it's massively cheaper to bend, weld, and machine a CP rather than engineer a design, create a mold, and find an plastic injection molding company. It's crazy expensive.

OEMs use plastic throughout intake tracts because it's better for a multitude of reasons. Yes, it's also cheaper to make BUT again the R&D cost is massive. This is offset by the economies of scale of making thousands of a particular model and having contracts with manufacturers.

A metal CP heats up from all sorts of things. That throttle body will be hot, the metal IC we all tend to run will be hot, and all that radiant heat for all those screaming hot underhood components.

Will a metal CP cause performance issues? No. Will it fit perfectly like OEM? Nope. Will it be a more thermally stable? Nope.

The collar may be longer but the point where the flange is bonded to the tube still cracks, there evidence of that too, tmap sensor mounting point still fails as well. So it's still a botched and failed crappy patchy up from bmw.


I just came back from a super long city drive only, it was heavy traffic with alot of stop and go and ambients of 26.5C with iats hest soaking to 45C. Charge pipes seem fine still not searing hot.



Next I parked in a Walmart parking lot for 15 mins after stopping to grab some stuff. Came out noticed via MHD that temps hest soaked to 48C, started the car to idle and within 10-15 seconds temps dropped to 38C without even moving. That shows how effective the raditors fan is at cooling the intercooler, and he much air can move through the pipes even at idle. So that debunks another myth about huge idle hest soaking.

[F87source]

I need to note temps while I was driving today was 34C so about an 8C delta while moving at a reasonable speed. So compare 34C iat while driving to 38C while idling after a long heat soak - I think that's pretty dang good.

4C difference (might have been smaller if I let it idle longer) from just sitting and idling to moving with alot of air flow going through the engine bay, so yeah that whole not enough air flows through the charge pipes while idling and thus heat soak will take effect is absolutely wrong imo.



It's funny how the stock charge pipe people have yet to provide any evidence, but still assert their views so strongly.


Edit - this severe drop in temps after the engine starts could be attributed to my bms intercooler with a super high Fin density. This means that the radiator fans cooling was even more effective. But it still shows that as soon as there's air flow in the charge pipe iats will drop and it won't just heat soak even with air flows as slow as idling.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

None of what you said is wrong- except for the fitment thing. Plenty of aftermarket pieces have shown to have spot on fitment. I had absolutely no trouble with mine.

My FTP fits fine too, but like all aftermarket CPs, the clearances are really tight, especially as the CP snakes the alternator and accessories. Also, the advantage to plastic on the OEM CP is a snugger fit as the plastic can better snap/seal into place around the IC and throttle body fittings where as the metal CPs have not flex and the seal is completely dependent on the o-ring. If the tolerances are just slightly off (likely many aftermarket CPs are), you can get boost leaks, some major and other minor, especially when running aftermarket ICs which many have tolerance issues at the outlet. Some have been able to fix these sealing issues with larger/smaller o-rings. Some have had to use different CPs to make it work.

I'm not a fan at all of the press-on style CP used on the N55. I'd much prefer clamps or bolts like are used on the S55, B58, and S58 and many other late model turbo cars. You never hear about charge pipe failures on S55s or B58s because they finally got the design correct. The S58 should prove no different.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by F87source

I need to note temps while I was driving today was 34C so about an 8C delta while moving at a reasonable speed. So compare 34C iat while driving to 38C while idling after a long heat soak - I think that's pretty dang good.

4C difference (might have been smaller if I let it idle longer) from just sitting and idling to moving with alot of air flow going through the engine bay, so yeah that whole not enough air flows through the charge pipes while idling and thus heat soak will take effect is absolutely wrong imo.

It's funny how the stock charge pipe people have yet to provide any evidence, but still assert their views so strongly.

Edit - this severe drop in temps after the engine starts could be attributed to my bms intercooler with a super high Fin density. This means that the radiator fans cooling was even more effective. But it still shows that as soon as there's air flow in the charge pipe iats will drop and it won't just heat soak even with air flows as slow as idling.

I guess my M235 is special then because I've slightly burned my arm on my FTP CP when working on my car after driving on a hot summer day. A temp gun shot of the CP just below the TB connection has shown as high 130 degrees (54 C) after driving on a summer day. The highest I saw with my OEM CP was 110 degrees under the same test.

When it's 80+ degrees (26C) outside, the motor is fully warm, and I'm driving in stop and go traffic for 15+ minutes, my IATs can see as high as 130 degrees (54 C) at a stoplight with my FTP CP and Wagner EVO Comp 1 IC. These IATs are actually slightly higher than stock because again, these components are entirely metal compared to OEM which were largely plastic. Once rolling and at a steady cruise, the IATs fall close to what I had seen prior to the FTP CP and Wagner IC. When going moderate to heavy throttle, the IATs are better than stock and the stability of the IATs under a full throttle 2nd and 3rd gear run are way better (i.e. the point of an upgraded IC).

When it's below 65 degrees (18 C) outside, the FTP and Wagner IC do quite well and behave basically like the stock CP and IC during daily driving. When it's below 50 degrees (10 C), the FTP and Wagner IC stay cooler than stock and the FTP CP is always cool to the touch.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I guess my M235 is special then because I've slightly burned my arm on my FTP CP when working on my car after driving on a hot summer day. A temp gun shot of the CP just below the TB connection has shown as high 130 degrees (54 C) after driving on a summer day. The highest I saw with my OEM CP was 110 degrees under the same test.

When it's 80+ degrees (26C) outside, the motor is fully warm, and I'm driving in stop and go traffic for 15+ minutes, my IATs can see as high as 130 degrees (54 C) at a stoplight with my FTP CP and Wagner EVO Comp 1 IC. These IATs are actually slightly higher than stock because again, these components are entirely metal compared to OEM which were largely plastic. Once rolling and at a steady cruise, the IATs fall close to what I had seen prior to the FTP CP and Wagner IC. When going moderate to heavy throttle, the IATs are better than stock and the stability of the IATs under a full throttle 2nd and 3rd gear run are way better (i.e. the point of an upgraded IC).

When it's below 65 degrees (18 C) outside, the FTP and Wagner IC do quite well and behave basically like the stock CP and IC during daily driving. When it's below 50 degrees (10 C), the FTP and Wagner IC stay cooler than stock and the FTP CP is always cool to the touch.

Not trying to be argumentative with you because you’re a more than polite poster. But you keep talking about the temperature of the chargepipe and I can’t figure out why, because I don’t see any evidence that it matters at all to anything. If IATs are only high in traffic/non-performance scenarios, the car doesn’t even pull timing. The IATs are simply a non factor at low or even moderate speeds. They are a crucial factor up top- but as you mentioned, aftermarket intercoolers and chargepipes do better on IATs when being pushed.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

Not trying to be argumentative with you because you’re a more than polite poster. But you keep talking about the temperature of the chargepipe and I can’t figure out why, because I don’t see any evidence that it matters at all to anything. If IATs are only high in traffic/non-performance scenarios, the car doesn’t even pull timing. The IATs are simply a non factor at low or even moderate speeds. They are a crucial factor up top- but as you mentioned, aftermarket intercoolers and chargepipes do better on IATs when being pushed.

F87source is saying the aftermarket CPs don't heat up. That certainly isn't the case based on all the data I've gathered on my own car over the past couple of years. Based on what I've seen, they can get pretty damn hot. Being that he's in Canada probably has something to do with it as they don't contend with 90+ degree days with very high humidity, both of which lead to quick and prolonged heat soak.

In 1st gear and some of 2nd, timing is likely getting pulled because of the high IATs until the elevated temps drop as air passing through the intake and across the IC and engine bay. With the metal CP and IC, the initial IATs can be worse than stock on hot days.

Like all aftermarket parts, there are compromises to aftermarket CPs. They tend to run hotter and can have fitment issues. They also don't break like the plastic CP.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I guess my M235 is special then because I've slightly burned my arm on my FTP CP when working on my car after driving on a hot summer day. A temp gun shot of the CP just below the TB connection has shown as high 130 degrees (54 C) after driving on a summer day. The highest I saw with my OEM CP was 110 degrees under the same test.

When it's 80+ degrees (26C) outside, the motor is fully warm, and I'm driving in stop and go traffic for 15+ minutes, my IATs can see as high as 130 degrees (54 C) at a stoplight with my FTP CP and Wagner EVO Comp 1 IC. These IATs are actually slightly higher than stock because again, these components are entirely metal compared to OEM which were largely plastic. Once rolling and at a steady cruise, the IATs fall close to what I had seen prior to the FTP CP and Wagner IC. When going moderate to heavy throttle, the IATs are better than stock and the stability of the IATs under a full throttle 2nd and 3rd gear run are way better (i.e. the point of an upgraded IC).

When it's below 65 degrees (18 C) outside, the FTP and Wagner IC do quite well and behave basically like the stock CP and IC during daily driving. When it's below 50 degrees (10 C), the FTP and Wagner IC stay cooler than stock and the FTP CP is always cool to the touch.

Yes that's what I'm trying to explain:

1) I think my bms intercooler with it's insanely high Fin density is able to to more effective with power air flow (radiator fan only) and stay sub 50C. I know with my stock intercooler 50C+ was a common thing even on cold days below 20C in stop and go traffic. I also believe the Wagner intercooler is a low fin density design and a tube and fin so you heat soak alot quicker and have less means to disappate said heat which is why you see 50C easier than I do. I will keep testing to see if I can hit 50C in the coming days, I know we have a 33C day coming up which is likely the hottest it'll ever get here.


2) I'm differentiating between intercooler induced heat soak and ambient engine bay induced heat soak.


- if the charge pipe gets hot due to intercooler induced heat soak, aka 50C+ iat from idling then who cares if the charge pipes are metal the heat source is coming from within and being metal is a benefit because it allows the heat to be radiated out, plastic is just an insulator.

- If the charge pipes get hot due to ambient temperatures of the engine bay getting too hot then that's a problem.


3) the engine bay had alot of different heat zones. The passenger side where the turbo is (so lower in the opening on that side) gets stupid hot because of the exhaust manifold, turbo, and down pipe. The passenger side of the engine bay where the ground terminal is, and by the hood strut is cool to the touch, I have my ctek harness there and it never gets hot, sometime warm but that's it. The driver side upper part of the engine bay is the same as the passenger. The driver side lower part of the engine bay where the charge pipe sits is never as hot as the passenger side, I never see it get as hot as 50C and this is judged via touching the firewall and the metal ac hose weight. Those objects are just warm, and fairly consistent in temperature.


When driving fast there's alot of air rushing through the engine bay (there's also a large hole in te driver's side connected to the wheel well for the brake lines also contributing to air flow). When moving fast the engine bay is cooled down so it won't heat soak the charge pipes, when idling the charge pipes are too hot from I tercoller heat soak to be heated by the engine bay.

4) if the driver side of the engine bay never gets hot enough to heat soak the pipes from what I keep seeing, That's why metal charge pipes aren't a concern. I even notice there's enough flow through the charge pipes just from idle to drop temps from heat soaking in the sun.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

F87source is saying the aftermarket CPs don't heat up. That certainly isn't the case based on all the data I've gathered on my own car over the past couple of years. Based on what I've seen, they can get pretty damn hot. Being that he's in Canada probably has something to do with it as they don't contend with 90+ degree days with very high humidity, both of which lead to quick and prolonged heat soak.

In 1st gear and some of 2nd, timing is likely getting pulled because of the high IATs until the elevated temps drop as air passing through the intake and across the IC and engine bay. With the metal CP and IC, the initial IATs can be worse than stock on hot days.

Like all aftermarket parts, there are compromises to aftermarket CPs. They tend to run hotter and can have fitment issues. They also don't break like the plastic CP.

No I'm saying that the charge pipes don't instantly turn into searing hot skillets due to engine bay induced heat soak, like some plastic charge pipe proprietors are saying it will. I'm saying charge pipe temperatures are more dependent on iats and intercooler heat soak than engine bay temperatures. Hence why the whole arguements of plastic is better because it doesn't get heated up by the engine bay is not true, if anything it might seal in the heat.

I'm absolutely certain that the charge pipes will get hot if my intercooler ever heat soaks like it used to (it used to hit 50C even when it was cool outside and on really hot days I've seen it but 60C once before), but I don't think that's ever going to happen anymore unless I head to the track I don't think traffic will cause it to heat up to what it used to with the stock intercooler. But this heat is not from the engine bay it's from the intercooler hest soaking which brings the temperature of the air inside of the duct up with it. Hence why aluminum charge pipes are not a problem, plastic would heat up the same way.


Where I live we do get 90+ degree days (32C = 90F, we get 33C and rarely almost never 35C), humidity is not a problem here.





There's no way with an aftermarket intercooler you see higher temps while idling than the stock intercooler. I've been gathering data on the stock intercooler for over a year now (so I have a huge range of ambient temperatures to compare) in anticipation for this intercooler upgrade and so far in every single instance iats are lower than stock.


And when you say they run hotter it's only because you can easily feel that heat radiating from inside of the pipe vs. plastic only when heat soaking occurs. I rely on readings from the temperature sensor and so far they tell me the stock set has always been hotter than the after market setup.



I will look for an ir gun when they're on sale again, due to the pandemic the prices of these have sky rocketed.