[horsepower_and_hounds]

Wanted to discuss results and improvements on aftermarket FMIC's

For those that log and have upgraded intercoolers what kind of temp rises do you see. I am curious of real world driving results

I am running a stepped drop in

With outside temps of 50-53 deg I am seeing 22-25deg rise on a 2k-6k 5th gear pull and very close the same on a 3-4-5 gear pull from 2.3k to 6k shifting at 5.9k each time

Boosting between 14-17psi

Pulls were back to back

single pull was from 61 to 84 deg
3 gear pull was from 79 to 104 deg

On the stock cooler I would see a 30-33 deg rise on a single 4th gear pull with outside temps at 42-47 deg (winter)

[Tano]

I'm using Wagner Evo Comp 2 FMIC and I logged my last track day.

Laps 1-2.
Laps 3-4.

With outside temp of 17-18C I experienced 14-20C temp differences.
The pulls were in 3-4 gears between 2,5k-6,5k due to the characteristic of the track.
My max MAP values were around 195-198 KPa with 98-99 KPa atmospheric pressure. So if I calculate it well it's around 1 bar boost, which is 14 psi.

[NO_USER_]

I have the Wagner EVO II Performance on my FBO M2. My IATs drop as I start a 3rd gear 2k-redline pull, then it holds, then it increases a few degrees. All of my logs always decrease quite a bit. It’s pretty good I think! Stage 2 BM3.

What intercooler do you have?

There’s one user with an Active Autowerke intercooler, his temps just rose tremendously every time like 40 degrees...

He upgraded to the CSF!

I think Wagner or CSF are the best ones to buy!

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Originally Posted by tehboost

I have the Wagner EVO II Performance on my FBO M2. My IATs drop as I start a 3rd gear 2k-redline pull, then it holds, then it increases a few degrees. All of my logs always decrease quite a bit. It’s pretty good I think! Stage 2 BM3.

What intercooler do you have?

There’s one user with an Active Autowerke intercooler, his temps just rose tremendously every time like 40 degrees...

He upgraded to the CSF!

I think Wagner or CSF are the best ones to buy!

VRSF, yes on initial boost jump it seems to drop 3-4 deg and stay there for about 50-60 sec then start up from there.

Looking back over my logs they all seem to to be about 150sec for 2k to 6.2/6.5k in for 5th gear pull, that would be about 140mph. And the 3rd-4th-5th from 2.2k to 5.5k is about 180sec. Either way it still looked like aprox 20-25 deg rise on them. Maybe the most improvement will be seen when it gets warmer out? I am surprised at the 20-25 when the outside temps are still so cold.

Now the claims are a 11 degree rise during a 3rd gear pull on a stock turbo, full bolt on vehicle. In comparison, they say the OEM intercooler rises about 32 degrees during the same 3rd gear pull.

So I think I will do some sample runs like that and log to see what my results are. Granted I am not bolt on, just boosting via JB4 map 5 ewg

In no way am I trying to dog the manufacturer I am just trying to do research and learn which helps my expectations and what to look out for if changes need to be made

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by tehboost

I have the Wagner EVO II Performance on my FBO M2. My IATs drop as I start a 3rd gear 2k-redline pull, then it holds, then it increases a few degrees. All of my logs always decrease quite a bit. It’s pretty good I think! Stage 2 BM3.

What intercooler do you have?

There’s one user with an Active Autowerke intercooler, his temps just rose tremendously every time like 40 degrees...

He upgraded to the CSF!

I think Wagner or CSF are the best ones to buy!

Anyone logged temps on the Dinan IC?

[///cbrash]

For comparison, I did a few timed 60-130 pulls with my stock intercooler. I just upgraded to the CSF intercooler and want to redo those 60-130 pulls to see if my real world times will decrease.

[FSociety]

There's a few testers in the F30 section from grabbing a bunch of logs and test so far i can rate them like this

1- CSF
2- Dinan
3- CTS Turbo/Wagner/VRSF/ER were same *slight edge on CTS*
4- Phoenix (Worse almost not worth it over stock for back to back pulls)

Now the BIGGER Upgraded ones for Turbo cars I don't have enough logs from users to really suggest anything yet.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by FSociety

There's a few testers in the F30 section from grabbing a bunch of logs and test so far i can rate them like this

1- CSF
2- Dinan
3- CTS Turbo/Wagner/VRSF/ER were same *slight edge on CTS*
4- Phoenix (Worse almost not worth it over stock for back to back pulls)

Now the BIGGER Upgraded ones for Turbo cars I don't have enough logs from users to really suggest anything yet.

Thanks for the list. Between CSF and Dinan, have any of the F30 guys posted a detailed comparison that includes hard pull temps, stop/go traffic temps, heat dissipation/cool down time, weight, pressure drop, etc?

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Thanks for the list. Between CSF and Dinan, have any of the F30 guys posted a detailed comparison that includes hard pull temps, stop/go traffic temps, heat dissipation/cool down time, weight, pressure drop, etc?

Not as in-depth as one would like to see
But Darkiedm4 did on CSF and Wagner, his threads are very informative

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Thanks for the list. Between CSF and Dinan, have any of the F30 guys posted a detailed comparison that includes hard pull temps, stop/go traffic temps, heat dissipation/cool down time, weight, pressure drop, etc?

I'll have to start digging through my logs (I've been logging every drive), but I got data with the OE IC, CSF IC, and now the Wagner EVO2 Comp I have in my car (328d).

Based upon my rough impression (from memory glancing at the torque app while driving), the CSF cools the best, however, the Wagner EVO 2 Comp seems to flow better, and I have less turbo lag with it. With the CSF I don't recall seeing more than 10F above ambient, and with the Wagner I seem to see up to 13F over ambient in daily driving. My OE turbo goes to 26PSI stock (28PSI with stage 2), and isn't a twin-scroll, so lag is more noticeable.

If you're looking for specs the Wagner EVO 2 Comp is 18.6lbs, CSF 25.8lbs, and my OE one is 7.8lbs. The CSF has the narrowest ID of it's inlet/outlets at about 53mm, the Wagner's are about 54.75mm, and the OE 55mm. I had trouble getting my FTP turbo to intercooler and intercooler to intake manifold pipes working with the CSF (which is why I bought the Wagner), and comparing the two side by side the end tanks of the CSF place the inlet/outlets further apart than the Wagner (I'll have to check it compared to the OE though).

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

I'll have to start digging through my logs (I've been logging every drive), but I got data with the OE IC, CSF IC, and now the Wagner EVO2 Comp I have in my car (328d).

Based upon my rough impression (from memory glancing at the torque app while driving), the CSF cools the best, however, the Wagner EVO 2 Comp seems to flow better, and I have less turbo lag with it. With the CSF I don't recall seeing more than 10F above ambient, and with the Wagner I seem to see up to 13F over ambient in daily driving. My OE turbo goes to 26PSI stock (28PSI with stage 2), and isn't a twin-scroll, so lag is more noticeable.

If you're looking for specs the Wagner EVO 2 Comp is 18.6lbs, CSF 25.8lbs, and my OE one is 7.8lbs. The CSF has the narrowest ID of it's inlet/outlets at about 53mm, the Wagner's are about 54.75mm, and the OE 55mm. I had trouble getting my FTP turbo to intercooler and intercooler to intake manifold pipes working with the CSF (which is why I bought the Wagner), and comparing the two side by side the end tanks of the CSF place the inlet/outlets further apart than the Wagner (I'll have to check it compared to the OE though).

Nice, thanks for the data. The weight and flow of the CSF is what kept me from going that direction. Dinan’s supposedly flows better than stock, and I have to think it cools quicker than the CSF bc of the split air flow bn the first and second sections and the straight pass of air over the first section thru the bottom tray cutout.

But, I don’t have any comp data, I even forgot to weigh my Dinan IC before install....

[horsepower_and_hounds]

My OE weighed 7.2 on a shipping scale, the VRSF 17.4. I have not observed the delta between ambient temps and normal driving just was logging actual WOT pulls to make the cooler work. Also I had noticed a little bit of a delay upon application of WOT but I recall it was not that great and I have gotten used to it if it even still exists since these adapt quickly. The claim is 87% larger than OE but not sure how much of that volume actually is heat exchanged and how much is pass thru

[FaRKle!]

So last night I received the ATM IC I purchased, and pulled the CSF and OE ICs out of their boxes to compare.

Not surprisingly (look at the mfg pics), the CSF shares the exact same dimensions and angles as the ATM. I state it in that order because the ATM IC has been out for much longer than the CSF. There are a few small differences though. The CSF is 1.8lbs heavier (24lbs ATM, 25.8lbs CSF). I don't know where that weight is coming from as both cores have the same FPI. Could the end tanks be made of different material even though they're shaped the same? Another small difference I noticed is that the bars inside the end tanks have flat faces in the CSF, and they're rounded in the ATM, like on the front side of both ICs (and both MFGs claim this improves airflow into the fins). Additionally, the finishing on the ATM seems a bit better. The inlet/outlets are smoother on the inside, but the roughness inside the end tanks of both is the same.

I can also clarify my earlier statement of the distance between the inlet/outlets on the Wagner and CSF/ATM ICs. The Wagner's inlet/outlets are closer together than the CSF/ATM IC, and comparing the OE IC to the CSF/ATM, the inlet/outlet spacing is identical. So it turns out the Wagner is narrower than reference/OE.

Since the dimensions and FPI of the CSF match the ATM, I expect the performance is likely the same too.

[18EM2]

Which one will you install? The ATM?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by FSociety

There's a few testers in the F30 section from grabbing a bunch of logs and test so far i can rate them like this

1- CSF
2- Dinan
3- CTS Turbo/Wagner/VRSF/ER were same *slight edge on CTS*
4- Phoenix (Worse almost not worth it over stock for back to back pulls)

Now the BIGGER Upgraded ones for Turbo cars I don't have enough logs from users to really suggest anything yet.

Not sure how you came up with this list

1- you cant just rate intercoolers without knowing mods, temps, how often car is tracked, etc...

2- Wagner have 4 intercooler, VRSF have 3. You have them listed as one.

VRSF HD (5" and 6") and Wagner EVO II are levels above CTS, its not even close. Same for the Evolution Racewerks.
Even Wagner EVO I and the regular VRSF will outperform the CTS intercooler.

You have Dinan dual core in second. This is a huge intercooler meant for upgraded turbos. Depending on your mods it could either be a really good option or a really bad one.
Which again leads to the fact that each car is different so one list does not work for all

And last, what did you base your criteria on? IAT control though 1 gear? 3 gears? Weight? Temp recovery once pull is over? pressure air drop? Different conditions?

I sell all the intercoolers mentioned. I have no reason to favor one over the other as i have a great relationship with all the brands mentioned.
this is just my opinion as an enthusiast that knows a thing or 2 about intercoolers.

Without going into brand rating, if car is lightly modified (stage 1) your best bet would be to go with a 5" intercooler (Wagner EVO I, VRSF Sport, Active Autowerke, CTS,etc...)

If car is FBO or have upgraded turbos go with a 6" or at least a high density 5" intercooler (Wagner EVO II, VRSF HD or Race, Evolution Racewerks, CSF, Dinan).

The higher density the intercooler is the better. This applies to all stages.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by 18EM2

Which one will you install? The ATM?

Since I've run the CSF for some time, I technically already have installed the ATM.

That said, I need to go over all my DD logs and see if there was any actual appreciable difference between the CSF and Wagner (versus my perception).

If I did install the ATM, I'd expect the same performance as the CSF in just about every regard (not sure how much better the ATM would flow over the CSF due to the rounded bars in the end tanks, but I don't think it'd be huge). I guess that's good for all the folks waiting on CSF shipments. They can just get the ATM right now, and save a bit of weight.

Installing the ATM for me would also mean I'd have to go back to the OE flexible hoses for the turbo to IC and IC to intake connections. Kind of a pain versus just popping an intercooler in and out.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Not sure how you came up with this list

1- you cant just rate intercoolers without knowing mods, temps, how often car is tracked, etc...

2- Wagner have 4 intercooler, VRSF have 3. You have them listed as one.

VRSF HD (5" and 6") and Wagner EVO II are levels above CTS, its not even close. Same for the Evolution Racewerks.
Even Wagner EVO I and the regular VRSF will outperform the CTS intercooler.

You have Dinan dual core in second. This is a huge intercooler meant for upgraded turbos. Depending on your mods it could either be a really good option or a really bad one.
Which again leads to the fact that each car is different so one list does not work for all

And last, what did you base your criteria on? IAT control though 1 gear? 3 gears? Weight? Temp recovery once pull is over? pressure air drop? Different conditions?

I sell all the intercoolers mentioned. I have no reason to favor one over the other as i have a great relationship with all the brands mentioned.
this is just my opinion as an enthusiast that knows a thing or 2 about intercoolers.

Without going into brand rating, if car is lightly modified (stage 1) your best bet would be to go with a 5" intercooler (Wagner EVO I, VRSF Sport, Active Autowerke, CTS,etc...)

If car is FBO or have upgraded turbos go with a 6" or at least a high density 5" intercooler (Wagner EVO II, VRSF HD or Race, Evolution Racewerks, CSF, Dinan).

The higher density the intercooler is the better. This applies to all stages.

Cant argue there!

[alscks0414]

Please note that Dinan intercooler (and also intake/ exhaust syste) requires cutting of actual steel parts of the vehicle that I would worry to make impact on vehicle rigidity.

Regardless of the functional factor of how FMIC works the best, Dinan is way off the list from my perspective as they must cut and remove "A LOT" of parts...

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by alscks0414

Please note that Dinan intercooler (and also intake/ exhaust syste) requires cutting of actual steel parts of the vehicle that I would worry to make impact on vehicle rigidity.

Regardless of the functional factor of how FMIC works the best, Dinan is way off the list from my perspective as they must cut and remove "A LOT" of parts...

The Sport FMIC(1k) or the one for 449.00? The one for 449.00 is a bolt on many have purchased there are even youtube videos on the install.

I will assume you are talking about the Sport one for 1k

[alscks0414]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

The Sport FMIC(1k) or the one for 449.00? The one for 449.00 is a bolt on many have purchased there are even youtube videos on the install.

I will assume you are talking about the Sport one for 1k

1k
http://files.dinancars.com/webresour...c02f50d31b.pdf

[alscks0414]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

The Sport FMIC(1k) or the one for 449.00? The one for 449.00 is a bolt on many have purchased there are even youtube videos on the install.

I will assume you are talking about the Sport one for 1k

I cant find any product with 449. There seems to be only one FMIC available under my search on Dinan website

https://www.dinancars.com/products/?...e=Coupe#page=1

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by alscks0414

1k
http://files.dinancars.com/webresour...c02f50d31b.pdf

You are 100% right I am totally mistaken. For some reason I was thinking AA,total brain fart man I appologize!