[emulajavi]

What is important is to see the range if travelling at 90mph or 150km/h...

Range for driving at 60mph or 100km/h is not real use on long distance journeys.

[SteveinArizona]

this could be my replacement for my hybrid 530e

[JorgenM]

Why announce range and not specify WLTP or NEDC...

BMW Europe currently use both WLTP and NEDC in their technical descriptions.

E.g for the i3 LCI the NEDC range is max 300km while WLTP is max 255km. Expected daily range is 200km.

To avoid being disappointed I wouldn't expect more than 300 miles (480km) for the i4, which is still GOOD!
(my Tesla S P85 has a real range of 380km / 235miles)


Regarding the iX3, pre-orders are already being taken at some dealerships here in Norway

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Bavariane31

Despite what you think of Tesla, it's pretty amazing that such a young auto company managed to manipulate the car industry into developing EVs (this has always been their primary goal; to show that EVs are a viable and sell-able option). No other automaker despite have years of experience and more resources thought seriously about it. Got to give them credit for American innovation.

EVs are the future and if anyone is doubting that, they don't understand technology. Unless we discover/manufacture a liquid that's cheap as gas (which is still expensive compared to electricity) but delivers more power, then maybe ICE may live on for a while longer... How plausible is that? Remote to say the least. The point is that ICE have pretty much peaked in terms of technology whereas battery tech still has a LONG way to go. People complain that they'll never purchase EV's because they don't have the range or take so long to charge... Of course they do, since we are only at the beginning of battery technology investment and EV manufacturing. That's how tech works. First products are going to take time to iron everything out. That's like complaining that the first ICE car was slower than a horse and has to take gas which isn't available everywhere, unlike grass so you'll never consider one ever and go on to criticize companies that continue to develop the tech... Don't worry, we'll know that you'll change you mind when the tech develops! Legitimate concerns, but EVs have improved so much during that last few years just with Tesla at the helm. Now that everyone is jumping on board, the improvements will just get faster and will overtake ICE in every department in the next few decades for sure.

Truth.

So many people in the dark.

[SDPLV]

Originally Posted by Bavariane31

Despite what you think of Tesla, it's pretty amazing that such a young auto company managed to manipulate the car industry into developing EVs (this has always been their primary goal; to show that EVs are a viable and sell-able option). No other automaker despite have years of experience and more resources thought seriously about it. Got to give them credit for American innovation.

EVs are the future and if anyone is doubting that, they don't understand technology. Unless we discover/manufacture a liquid that's cheap as gas (which is still expensive compared to electricity) but delivers more power, then maybe ICE may live on for a while longer... How plausible is that? Remote to say the least. The point is that ICE have pretty much peaked in terms of technology whereas battery tech still has a LONG way to go. People complain that they'll never purchase EV's because they don't have the range or take so long to charge... Of course they do, since we are only at the beginning of battery technology investment and EV manufacturing. That's how tech works. First products are going to take time to iron everything out. That's like complaining that the first ICE car was slower than a horse and has to take gas which isn't available everywhere, unlike grass so you'll never consider one ever and go on to criticize companies that continue to develop the tech... Don't worry, we'll know that you'll change you mind when the tech develops! Legitimate concerns, but EVs have improved so much during that last few years just with Tesla at the helm. Now that everyone is jumping on board, the improvements will just get faster and will overtake ICE in every department in the next few decades for sure.

Bruh. Most of us are gon be dead by the time this premonition comes to fruition. Sure Musk will be considered as the next Henry Ford someday. I can't name a single other auto-industry leader like him or Ford that has become a household name.

People in bumfark will continue buying Tesla T-150s, and they'll be America's #1 selling EV (or at least thats what the commercials will annoy us with) but overseas innovation and cheap manpower will eventually kick our ass. Happened to every other American car. There will still be some fanboys reppin Tesla, even after it fades from glory, just like the ones who won't keep quiet about lame Chevys on here.

[clubsport]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

Truth.

So many people in the dark.

We got it, you've almost finished your pint of Kool Aid.

I don't think anybody is saying Elon Musk is not a brilliant man. My statement was based on fact, though. I DO know 2 people who work at the Hawthorne Ca. area company who were given Model 3 cars and have had issues with the panels.

You might want to give GM, Mercedes, Toyota, BMW, and a few others some credit. Tesla didn't just "Show Up and start designing and building cars". Mass amounts of manufacturing knowledge in exchange for Carbon Credits occurred over the many years. Everybody benefits from everybody.

But you seem to know everything about all things Musk so I'll leave you to it.

I'm just glad there are many more options coming. My solar powered lifestyle will charge whatever I choose next.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by clubsport

We got it, you've almost finished your pint of Kool Aid.

I don't think anybody is saying Elon Musk is not a brilliant man. My statement was based on fact, though. I DO know 2 people who work at the Hawthorne Ca. area company who...

Maybe part of what your you said is fact to you Mr storyteller... Nothing more than hearsay to the rest of us!

The other part you posted was completely made up bullshit.

You must me a Tesla shorter or delusional at best.

Keep speaking your FUD!

[Bavariane31]

Of course. And my rant was regarding EVs vs ICE in general; not just Tesla, but you can interpret it for what it is because most people when they hear "EV" they immediately associate it with Tesla and it's testimony to Tesla's dominance in the field (as of right now). But honestly, who would've thought that basically a start up company would design the first great EVs, showcase EV performance, build a supercharging network, lead the autopilot movement, incorporate over-the-air auto updates for cars, and opening up their patents for free to promote innovation? You can't deny that Tesla has been the greatest auto innovator over the past decade with everyone else following suit (and they just build commuter cars!).

Would I get a Tesla now? No way, their build quality is nothing compared to any of the others that have been in the business for decades. Just recognize that they are force changer; not drinking kool aid, just being realistic.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Bavariane31

Of course. And my rant was regarding EVs vs ICE in general; not just Tesla, but you can interpret it for what it is because most people when they hear "EV" they immediately associate it with Tesla and it's testimony to Tesla's dominance in the field (as of right now). But honestly, who would've thought that basically a start up company would design the first great EVs, showcase EV performance, build a supercharging network, lead the autopilot movement, and incorporate over-the-air auto updates for cars? You can't deny that Tesla has been the greatest auto innovator over the past decade with everyone else following suit (and they just build commuter cars!).

Would I get a Tesla now? No way, their build quality is nothing compared to any of the others that have been in the business for decades. Just recognize that they are force changer; not drinking kool aid, just being realistic.

More truth.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by Bavariane31

Despite what you think of Tesla, it's pretty amazing that such a young auto company managed to manipulate the car industry into developing EVs (this has always been their primary goal; to show that EVs are a viable and sell-able option). No other automaker despite have years of experience and more resources thought seriously about it. Got to give them credit for American innovation.

EVs are the future and if anyone is doubting that, they don't understand technology. Unless we discover/manufacture a liquid that's cheap as gas (which is still expensive compared to electricity) but delivers more power, then maybe ICE may live on for a while longer... How plausible is that? Remote to say the least. The point is that ICE have pretty much peaked in terms of technology whereas battery tech still has a LONG way to go. People complain that they'll never purchase EV's because they don't have the range or take so long to charge... Of course they do, since we are only at the beginning of battery technology investment and EV manufacturing. That's how tech works. First products are going to take time to iron everything out. That's like complaining that the first ICE car was slower than a horse and has to take gas which isn't available everywhere, unlike grass so you'll never consider one ever and go on to criticize companies that continue to develop the tech... Don't worry, we'll know that you'll change you mind when the tech develops! Legitimate concerns, but EVs have improved so much during that last few years just with Tesla at the helm. Now that everyone is jumping on board, the improvements will just get faster and will overtake ICE in every department in the next few decades for sure.

Well, Tesla is no innovator whatsoever and the expertize was always there. They don't deserve ant credit whatsoever; they just started on a different political context that provided them a support that the predecessors never had.

First, the EV was built in US and run for a while until they call al of them back and crushed them. EV1.

Secondly, an electric vehicle does not represent an innovation at all, this technology is hundreds years old.

Thirdly, NO, I will never buy a EV until they are proven to have no EMF. And the batteries are still toxic and dangerous, they need to breath, they produce gases, etc. Unseen danger doesn't mean is not there.

Yeah, when they will be safe (if) and charge in 5 minutes like filling my tank, I might look at that. Yet, while I am here with all my senses, a nice exhaust note and the freedom of "recharging" my 65l tank in 5 minutes plus the possibility to have two three jugs of supplementary "power", I will stick with the ICE; they are alive and can truly go in any remote area.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Tracus

Well, Tesla is no innovator whatsoever and the expertize was always there. They don't deserve ant credit whatsoever; they just started on a different political context that provided them a support that the predecessors never had.

First, the EV was built in US and run for a while until they call al of them back and crushed them. EV1.

Secondly, an electric vehicle does not represent an innovation at all, this technology is hundreds years old.

Thirdly, NO, I will never buy a EV until they are proven to have no EMF. And the batteries are still toxic and dangerous, they need to breath, they produce gases, etc. Unseen danger doesn't mean is not there.

Yeah, when they will be safe (if) and charge in 5 minutes like filling my tank, I might look at that. Yet, while I am here with all my senses, a nice exhaust note and the freedom of "recharging" my 65l tank in 5 minutes plus the possibility to have two three jugs of supplementary "power", I will stick with the ICE; they are alive.

How about we just call Tesla a trendsetter... Clearly they're creating a huge disruption like it or not.

[Bavariane31]

Originally Posted by Tracus

Well, Tesla is no innovator whatsoever and the expertize was always there. They don't deserve ant credit whatsoever; they just started on a different political context that provided them a support that the predecessors never had.

First, the EV was built in US and run for a while until they call al of them back and crushed them. EV1.

Secondly, an electric vehicle does not represent an innovation at all, this technology is hundreds years old.

Thirdly, NO, I will never buy a EV until they are proven to have no EMF. And the batteries are still toxic and dangerous, they need to breath, they produce gases, etc. Unseen danger doesn't mean is not there.

Yeah, when they will be safe (if) and charge in 5 minutes like filling my tank, I might look at that. Yet, while I am here with all my senses, a nice exhaust note and the freedom of "recharging" my 65l tank in 5 minutes plus the possibility to have two three jugs of supplementary "power", I will stick with the ICE; they are alive and can truly go in any remote area.

Haha well, your definition of innovation basically only applies to scientists and the first pioneers of technology. No car brand would be an innovator. I'm obviously taking about automotive innovation application. But whatever.

What's wrong regarding EMF? Nothing says that MRIs are dangerous for example. Let's base our assumption on facts not speculation.

5 minute charging will probably be a reality in the future. But it's more likely that we'll hit 1000 mile ranges before that and if you charge your car at home, most people won't drive 1000 miles in a day anyways, effectively making visiting charging stations" a thing of the past.

Maybe in the future EV's will pipe engine sounds into the cabin and produce rough "shifts" to appease those that rank those qualities of a car above anything else. Wait, BMW already innovated that! Haha!

[Efthreeoh]

One question...

How much $?

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by Bavariane31

Despite what you think of Tesla, it's pretty amazing that such a young auto company managed to manipulate the car industry into developing EVs (this has always been their primary goal; to show that EVs are a viable and sell-able option). No other automaker despite have years of experience and more resources thought seriously about it. Got to give them credit for American innovation.

EVs are the future and if anyone is doubting that, they don't understand technology. Unless we discover/manufacture a liquid that's cheap as gas (which is still expensive compared to electricity) but delivers more power, then maybe ICE may live on for a while longer... How plausible is that? Remote to say the least. The point is that ICE have pretty much peaked in terms of technology whereas battery tech still has a LONG way to go. People complain that they'll never purchase EV's because they don't have the range or take so long to charge... Of course they do, since we are only at the beginning of battery technology investment and EV manufacturing. That's how tech works. First products are going to take time to iron everything out. That's like complaining that the first ICE car was slower than a horse and has to take gas which isn't available everywhere, unlike grass so you'll never consider one ever and go on to criticize companies that continue to develop the tech... Don't worry, we'll know that you'll change you mind when the tech develops! Legitimate concerns, but EVs have improved so much during that last few years just with Tesla at the helm. Now that everyone is jumping on board, the improvements will just get faster and will overtake ICE in every department in the next few decades for sure.

Manipulate ? Or dominate ?

[SCOTT26]

My feelings on Tesla are that they might within the next ten years sold off to someone that will extend Great capital in order to correct all of its issues.
The reports and customer horror stories plus whistleblowing is something a major manufacturer could not get away with.
In many ways art imitates life such as the "Gung Ho" film with cars leaving production lines with unfinished features and put aside to complete later.

Trust me in Europe no one manufacturer I see is dismissing Tesla. They have built a following and a customer base and invested in the key issue of Electric vehicles moving forward in Europe which is the infrastructure to support them.
I admire the entrapeneur in Elon Musk and his ambition. Although I am more interested in watching him develop Space Xfurther. That is exciting.

Still waiting for the South Park episode when the Tesla Roadster falls through the atmosphere and lands on Trudeau or someone?

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by JorgenM

Why announce range and not specify WLTP or NEDC...

BMW Europe currently use both WLTP and NEDC in their technical descriptions.

E.g for the i3 LCI the NEDC range is max 300km while WLTP is max 255km. Expected daily range is 200km.

To avoid being disappointed I wouldn't expect more than 300 miles (480km) for the i4, which is still GOOD!
(my Tesla S P85 has a real range of 380km / 235miles)


Regarding the iX3, pre-orders are already being taken at some dealerships here in Norway

Bingo!

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

My feelings on Tesla are that they might within the next ten years sold off to someone that will extend Great capital in order to correct all of its issues.
The reports and customer horror stories plus whistleblowing is something a major manufacturer could not get away with.
In many ways art imitates life such as the "Gung Ho" film with cars leaving production lines with unfinished features and put aside to complete later.

Trust me in Europe no one manufacturer I see is dismissing Tesla. They have built a following and a customer base and invested in the key issue of Electric vehicles moving forward in Europe which is the infrastructure to support them.
I admire the entrapeneur in Elon Musk and his ambition. Although I am more interested in watching him develop Space Xfurther. That is exciting.

Still waiting for the South Park episode when the Tesla Roadster falls through the atmosphere and lands on Trudeau or someone?

He will capture it and bring it back to earth you had better believe it lol

[jninja]

This kinda irrelevant, but the title made me think....

My 2005 Infiniti G35 6MT, I had turbo'd, and made about 420hp... and I have gotten 480 miles on a tank. Granted, the tanks were 20 gallons, and I got 27-28mpg on hwy trips on occasion.. kind of incredible considering the mods, year, and technology.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by Bavariane31

What's wrong regarding EMF? Nothing says that MRIs are dangerous for example. Let's base our assumption on facts not speculation.

Your analogy is deceiving. And yes, MRI is dangerous, as Any exposure to all kind of radiation is dangerous.

However, please get an MRI every day for an hour and get back to us....

[Bavariane31]

Originally Posted by Tracus

Your analogy is deceiving. And yes, MRI is dangerous, as Any exposure to all kind of radiation is dangerous.

However, please get an MRI every day for an hour and get back to us....

You're just trolling me at this point. Such behavior is shameful from a veteran poster like yourself. Please educate yourself on MRIs and how they operate. A simple Google search will suffice. Responses like these discredit all your previous points even if they are truthful.

And on a lighthearted note; if you're willing to pay for my MRI every hour of the day for a year, I'll take you up on that offer! Let's stay on the topic of EVs.

[SDPLV]

Originally Posted by Tracus

Your analogy is deceiving. And yes, MRI is dangerous, as Any exposure to all kind of radiation is dangerous.

However, please get an MRI every day for an hour and get back to us....

Bruh, what? Who taught you that MRI = radiation?

The only way its dangerous is if you are bringing magnetic items into the room, including implants, foreign bodies and those can overheat, move around, or become flying projectiles.

MRI every day for an hour. Sure. I've sat with multiple patients during their scans. Doesn't do shit. Just loud as hell, so you can damage your hearing without headphones or earplugs. However, I've also been in the room during experiments while the MRI was scanning. Still kickin it.

I only completed a dedicated postdoctoral research fellowship for the US govt on it...but clearly you know some new tings!

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by Bavariane31

You're just trolling me at this point. Such behavior is shameful from a veteran poster like yourself. Please educate yourself on MRIs and how they operate. A simple Google search will suffice. Responses like these discredit all your previous points even if they are truthful.

And on a lighthearted note; if you're willing to pay for my MRI every hour of the day for a year, I'll take you up on that offer! Let's stay on the topic of EVs.

As mentioned before, your analogy is not a proper one since the source is very different and we talk of totally different effects. My initial post was mentioning something else not MRI and never mentioned MRI. Again, not relevant since everything is so different between the two. I should have point that you are the one that is actually wrong by making such analogy since they are so different. My mistake in here.

In regards with your other comments, I think that you either accidentaly overreacted for something that does not justify your conclusion in any way, either you are overly sensible and every contradictory discussion is in your opinion a personal affront. I actually find your choice of words inadequate even a litle bit offensive since you are painting me with attributes, while I never said anything towards your persona. So I sincerely suggest an introspection. There is nothing offensive in my comments. This is a forum and you should expect different reactions that are expressed in many ways, from straight and frank opinions to corrosive comments.

as a note, smoking is not harmful either, and many are still kickin it”.

Anyway, I am out of the subject, each with its own, I am not here to argue or dismantle someones beliefs in how healthy, safe and “in parameters” everything is. Is a free world.
Peace.