01-15-2016, 05:22 AM | #45 |
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Guys, could you maybe agree to disagree in this instance. After a certain number of posts it starts to look tit-for-tat. Good to see the passion though.
Lets all and move on perhaps.....
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01-15-2016, 05:34 AM | #46 | ||
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'02 S54 M3 (500/500 GC/Koni)
'08 N54 135 (JB4, DCI, BMW PS/Bilstein B6s, H&R M3 FSB, Strongflex FCABs) '14 N55 X1 (JB4, BMS DP, BMS Intake, Alpina TCU reflash, H&R Sports, Bilstein B6s, E93 M3 RSB, Strongflex FCABs, baby seat) '08 N54 535xi touring (Bilstein B6s, Downpipes, MHD tune, baby seat) |
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01-15-2016, 06:19 AM | #47 |
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Some countries (Belgium for one) have much higher tax rates on cars above a certain amount of horsepower, so underrating a car could be seen as tax avoidance, and WOULD be an issue with governments.
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01-15-2016, 06:49 AM | #48 |
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Well, you've got me there.
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'02 S54 M3 (500/500 GC/Koni)
'08 N54 135 (JB4, DCI, BMW PS/Bilstein B6s, H&R M3 FSB, Strongflex FCABs) '14 N55 X1 (JB4, BMS DP, BMS Intake, Alpina TCU reflash, H&R Sports, Bilstein B6s, E93 M3 RSB, Strongflex FCABs, baby seat) '08 N54 535xi touring (Bilstein B6s, Downpipes, MHD tune, baby seat) |
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01-15-2016, 10:06 AM | #49 | |
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Fact of the matter is, they don’t make engines that produce 50 + more horsepower than they claim. Its exactly what I'm saying. It hasn't happened, because it doesn't happen. They don't underestimate their engines to some ridiculous BMW fan-fic degree. VW cocked up with lies over figures relating to how their vehicles performed (altering the state of tune to reduce emissions for testing does have an effect on power output) and its bitten them in the arse because people feel betrayed despite having a vehicle that performed better in day to day driving when not in emissions test mode. No one cares about the emissions, yet thats what they're pinning it on probably in pursuit of compensation. Not saying i agree with that either. I wouldn't complain. Back to point, Jaguar landrover don’t seem to go around knocking 50 or so horsepower off to get their figures. Project 7: Skip to 8 minutes if you don’t want to sit through the explanation of how he’d be semi-informed on the matter.. Shock horror. Its underrated. By around 2% The M235i dynos stock in the region of 290whp (depending on which chassis dyno is used - the more accurate ones tend to be the most conservative). That seems to fit in pretty well with the claims of 326hp +- 5% either way at the crank and a 15% drivetrain loss. Im not claiming their figures are spot on, but you’d be looking at max 20hp over claimed at the crank on a m235i. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. |
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01-15-2016, 10:08 AM | #50 |
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Yeah, fair enough. He's a wanker, but as that that isn't going to change it's not worth spending time rebutting all the incorrect points in his last post. We'll never agree.
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01-15-2016, 10:21 AM | #51 | |
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Which, back on topic, id be surprised if the M2 turbo was massively different from the m235i's. The M235i still has some headroom as evidenced by people going FBO and JB4. Although longevity would suggest they look to do at least some upgrading. At best id think it would be the same housing with a slightly larger compressor. It'll still be more than tuneable and no doubt pure will offer their turbo upgrades for it. Cant see them needing much modding to work. |
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01-15-2016, 10:58 AM | #52 |
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Haha, amusing. Reminds me of two guys who beat each other to a pulp over some minor disagreement and then, all torn up and bloody, celebrate with a beer because they now have something in common!
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01-15-2016, 02:03 PM | #53 |
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RE: They don't under-rate.
That's just not true. BMW has under-rated the S55 and the B58 pretty significantly. Much more so than any of their past engines. Not sure why they decided to...but they have. http://www.***********.com/content.p...a-Stage-I-tune Using BMS's dyno as the constant... A stock N54, for example is putting down 265 or 270whp stock (300 BHP rating). Whereas the S55 is putting down it's rated BHP to the wheels. The B58 on that dyno? 330 whp... So BMW has, in fact, grossly under rated it's recent turbo engines. If the same holds true for the M2 mill, we're looking at a bigger turbo for sure.
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'02 S54 M3 (500/500 GC/Koni)
'08 N54 135 (JB4, DCI, BMW PS/Bilstein B6s, H&R M3 FSB, Strongflex FCABs) '14 N55 X1 (JB4, BMS DP, BMS Intake, Alpina TCU reflash, H&R Sports, Bilstein B6s, E93 M3 RSB, Strongflex FCABs, baby seat) '08 N54 535xi touring (Bilstein B6s, Downpipes, MHD tune, baby seat) Last edited by PrematureApex; 01-15-2016 at 03:13 PM.. |
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01-15-2016, 03:39 PM | #54 |
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Some people now say they are not overrated but it's correction factors on dyno's increasing these numbers. My M3 for instance made 427whp stock and 495 with jb4 map2 and downpipes on a corrected dynojet. Not corrected would have been much less...
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01-15-2016, 03:52 PM | #55 | |
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We see an N54 or N55 losing 10-15% to the wheels, as you'd expect. However, the S55 and B58, on the same dyno, are putting down close to their rated numbers. The performance data also shows the same thing. BMW is under-rating its most recent crop of engines, for some reason.
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01-16-2016, 08:04 AM | #57 | |
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Although how they get away with underselling it is beyond me. It also reminds me of how 0-60 times are usually quite modest with the likes of Porsche ect. |
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01-16-2016, 07:47 PM | #59 | |
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01-16-2016, 08:48 PM | #60 | |
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http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...no-tested.html the 1M *stock* puts down OVER 330hp at the wheels as witnessed by many dyno tests done by different people. If you take that into account as crank (+15%) then BMW should have marketed this car as 385hp rather than the 335hp they did market it as. 340whp and 400lb/ft STOCK here. http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=689071 also IIRC F8X M3s are definitely underrated as well......we don't need your unsubstantiated opinions when there are plenty of charts and graphs available to document this as a fact.. Last edited by IEDEI; 01-16-2016 at 08:55 PM.. |
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01-17-2016, 06:37 AM | #61 | |
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But what do you mean "how they get away with underselling it is beyond me."? As mentioned above, there's absolutely nothing to stop them. Despite people attempting to make up legal ramifications, there really aren't any when it comes to giving MORE than you're advertising.
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'02 S54 M3 (500/500 GC/Koni)
'08 N54 135 (JB4, DCI, BMW PS/Bilstein B6s, H&R M3 FSB, Strongflex FCABs) '14 N55 X1 (JB4, BMS DP, BMS Intake, Alpina TCU reflash, H&R Sports, Bilstein B6s, E93 M3 RSB, Strongflex FCABs, baby seat) '08 N54 535xi touring (Bilstein B6s, Downpipes, MHD tune, baby seat) |
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01-17-2016, 06:40 AM | #62 |
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You think the single OE snail is capable of that? Sounds a lot more like an N54/S55 number.
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'02 S54 M3 (500/500 GC/Koni)
'08 N54 135 (JB4, DCI, BMW PS/Bilstein B6s, H&R M3 FSB, Strongflex FCABs) '14 N55 X1 (JB4, BMS DP, BMS Intake, Alpina TCU reflash, H&R Sports, Bilstein B6s, E93 M3 RSB, Strongflex FCABs, baby seat) '08 N54 535xi touring (Bilstein B6s, Downpipes, MHD tune, baby seat) |
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01-17-2016, 07:43 AM | #63 | |
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I know - but you would think for example insurers would have a hay day if they found out that the car had more HP than listed - it's not like they try and analyse every other detail! Don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining though |
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