[Benzima]

Go for it! There is not enough ///M in life!

[RaceCarDriver]

I just bought the M2 a month ago, and I still have my 2011 1M & and my 2001 S54 M coupe. I say get the M2 and keep your Z4M.

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by RaceCarDriver

I just bought the M2 a month ago, and I still have my 2011 1M & and my 2001 S54 M coupe. I say get the M2 and keep your Z4M.

I ordered a M2 and keeping my Z4M roadster.... Did you order a manual or DCT on your M2?

Nice car collection... I follow you now on Instagram

[RaceCarDriver]

Originally Posted by Franzino

I ordered a M2 and keeping my Z4M roadster.... Did you order a manual or DCT on your M2?

Nice car collection... I follow you now on Instagram

I got it in manual...me personally I would never go dual clutch unless there was no manual option. I had a dual clutch in my CLA 45 AMG because there was no manual offered.

BMW manuals are so easy to drive now, they rev match and don't roll back on hills. no reason not to get it.

Glenn

[I Love BMW's]

Originally Posted by RaceCarDriver

I took delivery of my 6 speed manual M2 two weeks ago.

I currently own an S54 Z3 M coupe and a 2011 1M. I plan on keeping all three....Previous to that I owned an E90 M3 sedan and an E46 M3.

I agree with you about the M3/M4 being too big, etc. The M2 is perfect. Use the M2 as your daily driver and keep the Z4M roadster for the track and the weekends.

I've got a similar set in my stable. I love the Z4M and the 1M. The Z4M is my track car and the 1M my mountain twisties car. Selling my M4 and replacing it with the M2. I did a two day training on the Nurburgring in the M2's and was very impressed with the handling and capabilities of the car.

[serrated]

Replace the z4m with a used 6 cyl Cayman if you want that special feeling alongside your m2

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by serrated

Replace the z4m with a used 6 cyl Cayman if you want that special feeling alongside your m2

IMO a normal Cayman is less special then a Z4M roadster! With a cayman I don't have a roadster anymore....the only Cayman I would trade in my Z4M is a Cayman GT4... Cayman GT4 for track & fun + M2 as daily would be great if I had the money.

I have zero intention on ever selling my Z4M... The M2 will be joining at te end of 2016 and there is enough difference between these two cars to keep both interesting for me.

[serrated]

Originally Posted by Franzino

IMO a normal Cayman is less special then a Z4M roadster! With a cayman I don't have a roadster anymore....the only Cayman I would trade in my Z4M is a Cayman GT4... Cayman GT4 for track & fun + M2 as daily would be great if I had the money.

I have zero intention on ever selling my Z4M... The M2 will be joining at te end of 2016 and there is enough difference between these two cars to keep both interesting for me.

or boxster! haha

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Franzino

I meant it "felt" big for a car with that performance...not that nimble, lively, and throwable like the older M3 cars. Size wise it made me feel a little like a e39 M5 and not a M3. For me an M3/M4 should be more compact as it used to be the most sportcar orientated M model... Now this is not the case anymore and also the reason there is a demand, market for a smaller M2. It fits the gap so nicely and besides the engine and steering, on paper the M2 looks somewhat as a modern interpretation of a e46 M3.

I'm not saying the actual size of the M3/M4 is to big for me....then it would indeed be strange to consider a 2014 Alpina B3 wagon that is the same generation of 3-series and around the same size. Size wise the latest generation 3 series is indeed a bigger car and on the limit of what I find nice and usefull on the road and in the city.... I could perfectly live with a Alpina B3/C63 AMG...but not any bigger.

I love the look, sound, set-up from the latest RS6...but that car is so big....same story with the latest M5. It feels like to big a car and it's hell to find a parking spot in European city centers with that size.

What about the new RS3? Could be a nice alternative...smaller than the F80 but more practical than the M2 (based on utility of 4 doors).

Plus the new Audit cockpit is really awesome. just an idea...

[gtr]

Originally Posted by Franzino

I have zero intention on ever selling my Z4M... The M2 will be joining at te end of 2016 and there is enough difference between these two cars to keep both interesting for me.

I think you will sell your Z4M. The M2 is better in everyway and has more room. Let us know you thoughts after you own one. I-drive 5.0, better sounding stereo, way more modern and better drive. You will see what I mean.

Originally Posted by dmboone25

What about the new RS3? Could be a nice alternative...smaller than the F80 but more practical than the M2 (based on utility of 4 doors).

Plus the new Audit cockpit is really awesome. just an idea...

Had a TTRS and had test driven the S3. The problem with the RS3 is that I'm worried it'll be "Audi like" and meaning driving feel more like a CLA45 vs Lancer Evolution. Basically feeling too normal and not a wow I can feel the race car like DNA.

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by serrated

or boxster! haha

The only Boster I would trade in my Z4M roadster is the 2016 Boxster Spyder 981



Prices start at $120.000 for these cars...

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by gtr

I think you will sell your Z4M. The M2 is better in everyway and has more room. Let us know you thoughts after you own one. I-drive 5.0, better sounding stereo, way more modern and better drive. You will see what I mean.

Honestly; I have zero reason to sell my beloved Z4M roadster and I don't need to financially or for practical reasons (no kids, no dogs, only 1 girlfriend ). It was my first proper M car and I'm emotionally attached to this car. The Z4M is way more old school then the M2...more pure driving sensation with the NA engine and non-electric steering, etc. Yes the Z4M slower then the M2, but it has some other things going for it. My Z4M is also modified for my own taste with CSL wheels, Full AP racing brakes and Bilstein PSS-10 suspension. In this set-up it drives awesome and it is becoming somewhat of a rarity to see a 10 year old M version of the Z4 on the road (and track).



The difference between the M2 vs my Z4M roadster is big enough to keep both interesting for me. Both have their appeal, and both have their pro and cons... Of course the biggest difference between the two is the roadster vs coupe lay out...
I can not say the M2 drives better... Both drive different and both are massively fun! The M2 of course being the better, more comfortable daily driver.
If I had a Z4M coupe, then maybe I would be tempted to sell it one day if I don't use it anymore when my M2 arrives....but my Z4M is a roadster and my girlfriend likes driving it when I'm not using it (got to keep everybody happy )

One big thing to consider; my Z4M was never my daily car...only sun, fun and track... For this purpose; I don't care about I-drive 5.0, better sounding stereo, more space, more comfort....it's all about the way it drives with the Z4M. The M2 will be my new daily car that will replace my 12 year old e46 325i. On a daily basis, things like I-drive 5.0, better sounding stereo, way more modern and better drive (then my 325i) will indeed matter and be big bonus points..

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

What about the new RS3? Could be a nice alternative...smaller than the F80 but more practical than the M2 (based on utility of 4 doors).

Plus the new Audit cockpit is really awesome. just an idea...

It's more practical then the M2 because it has two rear doors... But as stated above, I have no kids or dogs. Maybe 5 times a year there are passengers sitting on the back seats of my current daily car. The biggest downside on the RS3 is probably the way it drives, because of the Quattro system. I have not driving the new RS3, because I have zero interest in the car and the fact that it has more power then the M2 does not change this. If I would live in a country with 75% snow, rain or other slippery situations then indeed a RS3 or RS4 would make sense and I would probably buy a RS4 instead of an M2 for my daily transport.

When I wanted to have a new daily car I also tested the Audi RS4 B8 Avant. The car looks great (in and out) but I was let down in the way drive and this was because of the quattro system and the horrible steering feel.

Normally I don't like auto gearboxes; but the S-tronic box was feeling rather good...it was nice in auto mode and nice when shifting the gears myself. The shifts are fast enough and felt really good on public road for a car of this size. There is no other choice with the RS4 B8. If they had a manual version I would look for that one.

Suspension and dynamic steering?
The RS4 suspension felt ok in comfort mode (the other settings are to hard for the street). The dynamic steering was the biggest disappointment of the complete car. In comfort it was to soft and slow, automatic was not great and in dynamic it was to artificial heavy. I don't know if it's something you need to get used to...but the steering feel was the baddest thing of the RS4. Also almost every used RS4 I have found on the market has the dynamic steering option...and even so...I doubt the standard RS4 steering has a better steering feel?

Handling?
The quattro handling was like the car was on rails and grip levels were awesome on a typical autumn day. This also means the car feels boring and does not give you that many driver thrills or involvement when driving at normal speeds... My 325i is more fun and lively when driving at the same speeds and they are slower cars then the RS4. The M2 is night and day difference with the RS4 B8 and I presume the new RS3 is more of the same story as the RS4

[gtr]

Originally Posted by Franzino

I can not say the M2 drives better... Both drive different and both are massively fun!

My brother in law is in the UK and he tracks extensively. He purchased a Z4M because he loved the styling and told me he sold his after a few months because it drives terrible on the track. Steering weight, balance, and constantly wrestling with it around the course. My assumption was based on his comments and experience since I had never tracked one. He very much prefers his stripped out M3CSL. He mentioned the M3 is much easier and more enjoyable to drive on the track. That car seen more track mile than his GT3RS which tells me how good the CSL is to drive. That is one of the reason I'd deposit up for the M2CSL since if the M2 is like the E46M3 I'd bet the M2CSL will be like the beloved M3CSL.

His Z4M was stock but I'd assume you modified Z4M probably drive much better and fix some of the handling flaws he had mentioned.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Franzino

I test drove a e92 M3 V8 (with DKG) for a week and decided this was not the daily car for my needs…. A lovely car and a great engine but you have to drive it really fast to really enjoy it…the car begs to be driven fast and on public roads that's not possible. I also drove a BMW M4 (with DKG). I really did not like this car; It felt to big, I did not like the noise, the steering feel, the traction and the power delivery.

Now there is the M2…it is about the same size as the e46M3 and for me that is the perfect size of a daily car. I don’t like big cars… I also don’t get it why every generation of 3-series has to be bigger then the last one

The M2 (with manual transmission) sounds great on paper and every review is really positive about the car. Most car journalist love it…mmmm that caught me thinking and maybe I will love it to? Who knows! So I have arranged a test drive with a M2...sadly it is one with M-DKG transmission, but most people will order this one. So I can understand that they have this M2 for a test car. I will know in 2 weeks how it drives.

On picture I was not fully convinced about the M2 look (I also don’t like that blue color)…but last week I saw one in real life, in the right color (black)… The front bumper is not so nice (the one on the M3/M4 is way more subtle), but in black it looks rather nice and the overall look is good. The wheels are in 2-color and that is something I also don’t like, but I think a respray in ferric grey can solve this for me and maybe fit different wheels one day (like the ones on the 1M).

But what if I like the BMW M2…what then? Should I buy/order one for 2017 delivery? I already have a BMW-M…do I need a BMW-M as my daily car and what will this do with my feeling about my Z4M?

I’m a little afraid that driving everyday with a BMW-M will make my beloved Z4M feel less special and less intoxicating then now. My daily car is now a 12 year old e46 325i estate with full M-tech + Bilstein suspension and every option (manual transmission). I drive my Z4M on my free days when the weather is good or when I go on a track day… The Z4M does 15.000km a year….my 325i touring (daily) does 18.000km a year..

Also when going to my monthly trackday (Nurburgring) will I be tempted to take the M2 instead of my modified Z4M (Bilstein PSS-10 suspension + AP brakes all round + CSL wheels, etc)…. My Z4M is the one I also intended/bought for the occasional track use.

Other alternative cars on the list of replacing my daily 325i are; a used Alpina B3 Bi-Turbo estate (2014 / non X-drive) / used C63 AMG estate (2012/2013). I'm thinking that maybe the Alpina B3 estate is the best daily choice for me and makes the most sense. It is also more of a different car then my Z4M… A BMW M2 is maybe a little bit more in the same region as my Z4M…..? But it could be that I really love how the M2 drives….

You will not get bored wth your z4M. If anything you will appreciate it even more. I have an old NA 330i ZHP and while it does not pull as hard as my 1M. It is classic BMW. You will notice how much better the old school steering is compared to the new ones. You will appreciate the instantaneous throttle response of an NA motor and the sound can't be compared. So don't fret about that. I drive my ZHP daily and I don't feel I miss much when the 1M is in the garage. A more realistic concern is only testing a DCT version. If you like gadgets then not a problem but the M2 is a modern BMW with more emphasis to satisfy less diehards so it has fake sound, idrive, screen, power seats, smokey burnout feature, launch control and all sorts of fluff thst dilute the connection to the machine that DCT on top might be too much. So I would try to find a manual to drive. Good luck and best wishes!

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by gtr

My brother in law is in the UK and he tracks extensively. He purchased a Z4M because he loved the styling and told me he sold his after a few months because it drives terrible on the track. Steering weight, balance, and constantly wrestling with it around the course. My assumption was based on his comments and experience since I had never tracked one. He very much prefers his stripped out M3CSL. He mentioned the M3 is much easier and more enjoyable to drive on the track. That car seen more track mile than his GT3RS which tells me how good the CSL is to drive. That is one of the reason I'd deposit up for the M2CSL since if the M2 is like the E46M3 I'd bet the M2CSL will be like the beloved M3CSL.

His Z4M was stock but I'd assume you modified Z4M probably drive much better and fix some of the handling flaws he had mentioned.

The OEM brakes are the worst thing on the Z4M (same brakes as the M3 CSL), the OEM suspension is ok, but to soft on track and the Bilstein PSS-10 is a nice addition. Some video's of my Z4M on track (mostly Nurburgring): https://www.youtube.com/user/MisterZ...view=0&sort=dd

When talking e46 M3 CSL vs Z4M... the CSL is the obvious choice between the two on track. I would trade in my Z4M for that a CSL and would be my preferred choice between the two to hit the tracks with. Let's hope the M2 CSL is more like the set-up of a e46 M3 CSL then a M4 GTS.

The Z4M is a car that you need to learn how to drive fast. Because of the short wheel base, the car can be very lively...the Z4M can be very challenging to drive fast and that was something that also attracted me in buying one. For example; a Porsche Boxster from that era is way easier to drive fast then a Z4M, but a Z4M is more thrilling to drive fast. Once you know how it's a joy and it's a very capable car with a unique character. In comparison; the M2 is way easier to drive fast then a Z4M and gives the driver instant feel with the car...the Z4M takes some time to fully understand. One thing I hope is that the M2 is not to easy to drive and does not becomes boring after some time (I tend to keep my own cars for a very long time).

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by nachob

A more realistic concern is only testing a DCT version. If you like gadgets then not a problem but the M2 is a modern BMW with more emphasis to satisfy less diehards so it has fake sound, idrive, screen, power seats, smokey burnout feature, launch control and all sorts of fluff thst dilute the connection to the machine that DCT on top might be too much. So I would try to find a manual to drive. Good luck and best wishes!

In the end I ordered a manual M2 in Mineral Grey that is going to be delivered at the end of 2016....

I had a testdrive M2 DCT for 3 hours, a M2 manual for 1 hour and a M4 DCT for 1 hour. The first testdrive was with the M2 DCT. When I picked up the M2 it already won me over after 15min and I was tempted to buy a M2 DCT. Then I needed to decide the color and gearbox...so I also did a test with a manual M2.

In the past I borrowed an e90 M3 DCT from a friend for one week and lived with it on a daily basis. I did not like the gearbox in city and slow stop and go traffic. On normal roads it made me want to drive the car realy fast to enjoy the fast shifts. For me the DCT gearbox is at his best when driving realy fast or on a track...then it is an extra value and awesome piece (personal opinion). After two days in city traffic I stopped using the manual gearshifts of the DKG and just put it in D... It made me feel like a leazy driver in the e90 M3.

IMO the M2 is a car that is more about involvement and a little back to basic driving pleasure (in a modern package). I felt the manual gearbox suited the M2 personality better. The manual gearbox of the M2 is not perfect. Changing gears feels great, but the clutch is not the greatest. The clutch is very light with little feel and the movement of the clutch pedal is to long for my taste (I will need to get used to this). With the manual gearbox you can feel the effect of M2 turbo lag a little more then with the DCT. THe DCT shifts faster so there is less drop in rev's. The DCT has 7 instead of 6 gears, so the gearing is also shorter and it feels that you keep the engine more in the powerband with feeling less turbo lag.
With the f80 M3/M4 I would probably also choose DCT. It's a great gearbox and I understand why people would like to have it….

I have read almost every review of the M2
Most reviewers say both gearboxes are equally good and it's down to personal preference of the buyer. If they do have a personal preference then in most cases it's the manual gearbox. This is coming from people who drive a lot of different cars and who love driving.

BMW M2 reviews
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/bmw-m2-r...

http://mashable.com/2016/02/16/2017-bmw-m2-coupe-r...

In favor of manual gearbox
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2016/03/14/the-bmw-m2-dc...

http://www.caradvice.com.au/434143/2016-bmw-m2-rev...

http://jalopnik.com/the-2016-bmw-m2-is-bmws-middle...

http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/m2/page/0/2

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/bmw/bmw-m...

[BruceM]

[QUOTE=Franzino;20668397]In the end I ordered a manual M2 in Mineral Grey that is going to be delivered at the end of 2016....

The manual gearbox of the M2 is not perfect. Changing gears feels great, but the clutch is not the greatest. The clutch is very light with little feel and the movement of the clutch pedal is to long for my taste (I will need to get used to this).



Take a look at the Ultimate Clutch Pedal :

http://www.hpashop.com/Ultimate-Clutch-Pedal-UCP.htm

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1211871


My evaluation of the manual tranny in the F 80/82/87 series is similar to yours. Not only is the travel too long, the clutch effort is too light. The UCP is said to address both these concerns. My M2 is about to enter production (week 43), and should be in my hands in December. I've ordered the UCP. I've also ordered the UUC SSK for the box, but that's because the lever action in this tranny is a bit too smooth and easy for me. I like a notchier, shorter, more positive feel.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Franzino

With the manual gearbox you can feel the effect of M2 turbo lag a little more then with the DCT. THe DCT shifts faster so there is less drop in rev's. The DCT has 7 instead of 6 gears, so the gearing is also shorter and it feels that you keep the engine more in the powerband with feeling less turbo lag.

This is exactly why my mate Advevo(AW M2 6MT) , you know him from our Dutch forum, likes the DCT 'better' mated to the N55 in the M2.....

He says there is too much lag... the M2 is better suited with a DCT if you like craziness like trackdays/drifting etc.

FWIW

I'm not a purist myself: fun, craziness, driftability, trackdays, sensation, adrenalin etc is what I'm looking for in a sporty car.


Cheers
Robin

[Pyrat 2]

If you didn't like the e90/e92 because it begs to be driven hard and you can't do it on the street, then you shouldn't get the M2. Same problem with the M2. I regularly drive my e36 M3 instead of my M2 exactly for this reason.

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by Pyrat 2

If you didn't like the e90/e92 because it begs to be driven hard and you can't do it on the street, then you shouldn't get the M2. Same problem with the M2. I regularly drive my e36 M3 instead of my M2 exactly for this reason.

I didn't like the DCT gearbox on the street in the e92 M3....I did not say I did't like the car. That V8 is awesome

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

This is exactly why my mate Advevo(AW M2 6MT) , you know him from our Dutch forum, likes the DCT 'better' mated to the N55 in the M2.....

He says there is too much lag... the M2 is better suited with a DCT if you like craziness like trackdays/drifting etc.

FWIW

I'm not a purist myself: fun, craziness, driftability, trackdays, sensation, adrenalin etc is what I'm looking for in a sporty car.


Cheers
Robin

The M2 will be my daily driver...so I'm limited in the speed and acceleration on normal public roads... For me a manual gearbox in the M2 gives me more sensation, involvement when driving as a daily car. I will also do around 8 track days a year with the M2, that 10% track...90% road. If I would buy a M2 CSL with the main goal to use on trackdays then I would probably buy a DCT version.