[CosmosMpower]

Hrmm...the guy wasn't a good driver but still it shouldn't have been this close at all. His car looked stock and mine is mostly stock with just track pads and NT01 tires and camber plates.

[flyaway]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Hrmm...the guy wasn't a good driver but still it shouldn't have been this close at all. His car looked stock and mine is mostly stock with just track pads and NT01 tires and camber plates.

Really nice effort but frankly it isn't all about lap times, I can't help my self notice how much ''lighter'' and composed the GT4 looks, even with a probably less skillfull driver... Different cars, really.

Originally Posted by Benef1cient

Well I just set up a meeting with local Porsche SA to talk about the new 911 Carrera T - seems like a great package and shows that P is listening to people (weight loss is marginal, but the rest is awesome).
- It has less sound deadening
- Short shifter and 7sp manual with shorter ratios
- thinner rear glass
- pse standard
- sport chrono mode selector standard
- optional lwbs
- optional rws
- rear seat delete
- pcm delete
- sport pasm
- special trim
- ptv with mech diff standard

Even in communication they say it's not for collectors but for drivers, not for garages but for back roads. I know it's marketing but it ticks all my boxes as no other car right now.
https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-carrera-t/

I wanted to post this the moment I saw the Carrera T happening... I'm not in the market for various reasons and especially price tag, but this doesn't matter, Porsche is really listening to all their core customers and I take my hat off for that Not really the case (anymore) at BMW right now, a ''tremendous" effort for a single exception,a correct but rather bland M2 and all this drama for a more potent predictable soulless Competition...

Congratulations for even considering this, I have 100% understanding in what you're saying...

P.S. love this presentation image:

[Benef1cient]

Originally Posted by flyaway

Porsche is really listening to all their core customers and I take my hat off for that Not really the case (anymore) at BMW right now, a ''tremendous" effort for a single exception,a correct but rather bland M2 and all this drama for a more potent predictable soulless Competition...

Congratulations for even considering this, I have 100% understanding in what you're saying...

P.S. love this presentation image:

I very much agree about what you wrote in regard to the M2, it is great value for the money but it lacks that 'specialness', that sense of occasion and the competition is not gonna change that. The CSL maybe but I also doubt that.

This is brilliant move by Porsche and brilliant on point communication:
"The new 911 Carrera T is a thoroughbred 911. Made
for drivers, not collectors. Made for the next corner,
not the garage. Made for the journey, not the
destination."

Here is my current build: http://www.porsche-code.com/PJLHYVQ8
It's first 911 where you can just tick few options and you're done. I even have a feeling that the less options you take the better for the whole experience.

Financially it's going to be a big stretch but on the other hand it won't loose as much in depreciation as an M2, so in the long run it my just be similar in terms of cost.

I'm going to local PC on Thursday to talk with the SA. Nothing made me this much excited yet
Hope it somehow all works out and in June I'm gonna be driving the most driver focused 991 911 Carrera out there

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by flyaway

Really nice effort but frankly it isn't all about lap times, I can't help my self notice how much ''lighter'' and composed the GT4 looks, even with a probably less skillfull driver... Different cars, really.

Of course it looks more composed it's going slow in the corners

I agree they are different cars but an M2 should not keep up with a GT4. If I brought my GT3 I would have run him right over.

[termigni]

Originally Posted by Benef1cient

I very much agree about what you wrote in regard to the M2, it is great value for the money but it lacks that 'specialness', that sense of occasion and the competition is not gonna change that. The CSL maybe but I also doubt that.

Not sure what you mean by m2 lacking that 'specialness'. It's special ever time I drive this car. It's an attention getter, fast, quick, fun to drive, looks brilliant, comfortable, etc.. What else am I missing? I have access to my customer's cars from all the M's, AMGs, Porsches, and McLarens to add to my experience in cars. and my customers all agree how special an M2 is.

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by Gatte

Not sure about the GT4 RS. Will definitely be a GT4.

The whole GT4 RS rumor started based on an Australian Porsche employee's post which has already been proven wrong based on the timeline.

Then magazines like even motortrend started posting old spy shots of the 981 GT4 being tested and called it the 718 GT4 RS. I believe this is what led to everyone thinking that the next GT4 version will be an RS.

There could still be an RS but it will not be due to all the rumors we've seen so far.

Trust me; GT4 and GT4 RS are coming....the first one will be the GT4RS and will launch at Geneva Motorshow. Where we are probably also are going to see the M2 CS/CSL/GTS or whatever his name may be.

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by Benef1cient

I very much agree about what you wrote in regard to the M2, it is great value for the money but it lacks that 'specialness', that sense of occasion and the competition is not gonna change that. The CSL maybe but I also doubt that.

This is brilliant move by Porsche and brilliant on point communication:
"The new 911 Carrera T is a thoroughbred 911. Made
for drivers, not collectors. Made for the next corner,
not the garage. Made for the journey, not the
destination."

Here is my current build: http://www.porsche-code.com/PJLHYVQ8
It's first 911 where you can just tick few options and you're done. I even have a feeling that the less options you take the better for the whole experience.

Financially it's going to be a big stretch but on the other hand it won't loose as much in depreciation as an M2, so in the long run it my just be similar in terms of cost.

I'm going to local PC on Thursday to talk with the SA. Nothing made me this much excited yet
Hope it somehow all works out and in June I'm gonna be driving the most driver focused 991 911 Carrera out there

Congrats on ordering the Carrera T. I think it's a really cool car...even with the 3.0L turbo engine (like the M2). I love the idea behind it (even if it is 75% marketing). But the Carrera T I specced is double the price of an M2 (and a lot less practical)... So not really a good comparison in my opinion. The M2 is indeed great value for the money. No it does not lacks that 'specialness' and that sense of occasion. You have to compare a M2 with a normal sporty road car in the same price range and not to a double price tag Carerra T. In comparison with a more expensive GT3, your Carrera T will also be less special and less of an occasion... A 991.2 GT3 has a NA high revving engine...something the Carrera T and M2 can only dream about

In comparison with a normal car in the same price range; the M2 is way more special and every drive is much more of an occasion. I drive my M2 everyday (I have driven sporty cars all my live) and the M2 is a joy to drive on the streets and absolutely different, more fun then most cars. Yes the M2 CSL/CS will be more intoxicating, more involving....but also more expensive (which also loses a bit the attraction of the M2...the great fun package for that price).

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Of course it looks more composed it's going slow in the corners

I agree they are different cars but an M2 should not keep up with a GT4. If I brought my GT3 I would have run him right over.

It's all about the driver and which track! On the Nurburgring I can not follow my friend in his GT4 with my M2....after 1minute he was gone (see video). On Spa I could easily follow an even faster (op paper) full race GT4 clubsport. Normally with the same driver; a GT4 will be faster in the corners and maybe a bit faster in the straight line (when comparing manual M2 vs GT4...both on standard tyres and suspension).

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by Franzino

It's all about the driver and which track! On the Nurburgring I can not follow my friend in his GT4 with my M2....after 1minute he was gone (see video). On Spa I could easily follow an even faster (op paper) full race GT4 clubsport. Normally with the same driver; a GT4 will be faster in the corners and maybe a bit faster in the straight line (when comparing manual M2 vs GT4...both on standard tyres and suspension).

The M2 should be well under the 8 min mark I would think, no? Otherwise I understand most won't push the car to its limit, either, just to obtain a special lap time.

[Benef1cient]

Originally Posted by Franzino

Congrats on ordering the Carrera T. I think it's a really cool car...even with the 3.0L turbo engine (like the M2). I love the idea behind it (even if it is 75% marketing). But the Carrera T I specced is double the price of an M2 (and a lot less practical)... So not really a good comparison in my opinion. The M2 is indeed great value for the money. No it does not lacks that 'specialness' and that sense of occasion. You have to compare a M2 with a normal sporty road car in the same price range and not to a double price tag Carerra T. In comparison with a more expensive GT3, your Carrera T will also be less special and less of an occasion... A 991.2 GT3 has a NA high revving engine...something the Carrera T and M2 can only dream about

In comparison with a normal car in the same price range; the M2 is way more special and every drive is much more of an occasion. I drive my M2 everyday (I have driven sporty cars all my live) and the M2 is a joy to drive on the streets and absolutely different, more fun then most cars. Yes the M2 CSL/CS will be more intoxicating, more involving....but also more expensive (which also loses a bit the attraction of the M2...the great fun package for that price).

Well maybe the lack of specialness is just me having too high expectations after all of this hype. Please don't take it personally, the M2 is a great car and I still might end up buying one. The T also lacks in brakes (which I need for track driving), the weight loss is marginal and turbo engine is not as great sounding as the NA, I agree. It's mostly marketing gimmick.

As for now I'm looking into every option, especially cars with lower depreciation values (as this is the real cost of the car) and here in Poland BMW's aren't good in this regard, even M2s. Porsche despite the high entry cost do it brilliantly, maybe apart from 911 Turbo S.

Don't congratulate me as I didn't order it yet. Main reason being that the SA I talked with today has offered me a spot for the 2018 991.2 GT3
I told him it would be a huge stretch financially but he told me there is a way to do it and I agreed to send him my spec and get quotes for both CT and GT3. Well it turns out that I can prolong the lease financing the residual value for another three years. The question is if I'll manage to handle being for so long with the same car. I think that the new 4.0L GT3 is worth it... Have to think about it... Eh I hate having this kind of dilemma and the SAs who know our weak spots
What I also love about Porsche is the warranty you can prolong from standard 2 up to 10 years, which gives you peace of mind in scenarios like that above.

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

The M2 should be well under the 8 min mark I would think, no? Otherwise I understand most won't push the car to its limit, either, just to obtain a special lap time.

The standard M2 can hit well under the 8min mark...it depends on the driver, the traffic, the track conditions, etc... But a GT4 in the same hands will ofcourse be faster (both in standard form of course). Still; a M2 is a amazing package and for a street car and it preforms amazing also on track.... For a GT4 it's normal to be great on track (it's also more developed for this purpose). Look at this guy who's driving 7.49min with a completely standard M2 DCT (ignore the passenger talking )

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by Benef1cient

Well maybe the lack of specialness is just me having too high expectations after all of this hype. Please don't take it personally, the M2 is a great car and I still might end up buying one. The T also lacks in brakes (which I need for track driving), the weight loss is marginal and turbo engine is not as great sounding as the NA, I agree. It's mostly marketing gimmick.

Indeed; I think that you had to big of expectations. I also think you should compare the M2 with a normal Cayman S and not the GT4. When comparing it with a GT4, you can only be disappointed in the M2. GT4 vs M2 CS/GTS/CSL that would be a nice comparison. If my daily car did not need to be a practical car with a nice trunk and rear seats then I would have bought a GT4 and drove this everyday (yes indeed; you have read it correct; everyday ).

Originally Posted by Benef1cient

As for now I'm looking into every option, especially cars with lower depreciation values (as this is the real cost of the car) and here in Poland BMW's aren't good in this regard, even M2s. Porsche despite the high entry cost do it brilliantly, maybe apart from 911 Turbo S.

I mostly keep my cars for a very long time; so depreciation is not something I think about...or care about to much. I buy them for me and for me to enjoy at this time...the future resale value has zero impact on my choice of which car to buy. I think very long and hard before buying a car...because I always think; this car needs to entertain me for many years to come...so it has to be a good one. Normally I always buy used (2-3 years old car) and the M2 was the first and probably only new car I have ever bought. Nobody's knows what the future will bring considering resale value...but indeed a Porsche GT car (GT4/ GT3 / GT3RS / GT2) will loose less value in years to come then a mass produced BMW M2 or a normal 911.2 Carrera S.

Originally Posted by Benef1cient

Don't congratulate me as I didn't order it yet. Main reason being that the SA I talked with today has offered me a spot for the 2018 991.2 GT3
I told him it would be a huge stretch financially but he told me there is a way to do it and I agreed to send him my spec and get quotes for both CT and GT3. Well it turns out that I can prolong the lease financing the residual value for another three years. The question is if I'll manage to handle being for so long with the same car. I think that the new 4.0L GT3 is worth it... Have to think about it... Eh I hate having this kind of dilemma and the SAs who know our weak spots

The New 4.0L GT3 is definitely worth it....if you are also going to drive on track...if not then I would skip a GT3; safe the money and get the T.

Originally Posted by Benef1cient

What I also love about Porsche is the warranty you can prolong from standard 2 up to 10 years, which gives you peace of mind in scenarios like that above.

BMW does this also...you can prolong the warranty (in my country) of your new BMW... I would love to know if Porsche would to this om a used GT4? Considering the 3the gear gearbox issue.

[stylinexpat]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Hrmm...the guy wasn't a good driver but still it shouldn't have been this close at all. His car looked stock and mine is mostly stock with just track pads and NT01 tires and camber plates.

Porsche is so planted while M2 is jumping around all over the track. Bumpy and bouncy in M2 which is not the case in the GT4. Even the regular Cayman S is not bouncy

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

My response was tongue in cheek for the same reason - do we know the M2 CSL isn’t a figment of the inter webs too?

Originally Posted by Gatte

Absolutely. The M2 CSL rumor is so far all figment of the inter webs as well, caused mainly by M3 Adjuster.

Sometimes BMW needs a helping hand with their marketing..

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Hrmm...the guy wasn't a good driver but still it shouldn't have been this close at all. His car looked stock and mine is mostly stock with just track pads and NT01 tires and camber plates.

I kind of disagree. We all know the driver makes the biggest difference and how much faster is a GT4 vs a M2 on any given track? Probably a few seconds, that is it! A good versus bad driver can make a bigger difference than that for sure.
AND to say that you "JUST" had track pads, NT-01 tires and camber plates, is not really fair. Those tire alone will make 3-4 seconds a lap difference, putting you in theory on a level playing field with the GT4.

Of course a lot of it is subjective, but I am not surprised you were able to keep up with the GT4.

[Datka]

Originally Posted by norMcal

I kind of disagree. We all know the driver makes the biggest difference and how much faster is a GT4 vs a M2 on any given track? Probably a few seconds, that is it! A good versus bad driver can make a bigger difference than that for sure.
AND to say that you "JUST" had track pads, NT-01 tires and camber plates, is not really fair. Those tire alone will make 3-4 seconds a lap difference, putting you in theory on a level playing field with the GT4.

Of course a lot of it is subjective, but I am not surprised you were able to keep up with the GT4.

I agree with this. Modded m2 with NT-01, track pads and camber plates vs stock gt4 should be just as fast or maybe even faster with equal drivers.
So its not fair to say that driver was not good.
After driving slightly modded m2 on the track I think that its a very capable car and now seriously thinking to upgrade my 135i to M2.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by stylinexpat

Porsche is so planted while M2 is jumping around all over the track. Bumpy and bouncy in M2 which is not the case in the GT4. Even the regular Cayman S is not bouncy

That's cause he's not pushing the car at all hence why I was running him over in the corners. I'm also on pretty old/dead tires.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by Datka

I agree with this. Modded m2 with NT-01, track pads and camber plates vs stock gt4 should be just as fast or maybe even faster with equal drivers.
So its not fair to say that driver was not good.
After driving slightly modded m2 on the track I think that its a very capable car and now seriously thinking to upgrade my 135i to M2.

My M2 should not be able to keep up with a stock GT4. A stock GT4 is around the same performance as my 997.1 GT3 which runs under 2 mins at that same track on non R comp street tires. I ran a best of 2:01 that day in the M2.

GT3/GT4 should corner a lot faster than the M2 even on NT01 with camber plates and as you saw walks away in all the straights. That track has 2-3 pretty long straights.

At COTA my 997.1 GT3 and most stockish GT4's (well driven) are 2:27ish, my M2 on NT01, pads, camber plates was 2:34. That's 7 seconds a lap. It takes way more than wheels/tires/camber plates to allow a M2 to hang with a GT3/GT4.

[goj]

Congrats! But in no world is a front engine sport coupe going to be the same as a mid engine pure bred sports car!

[Overstand]

Yes it certainly doo! It’s 2 months in for me with my first M (lifetime dream come true) and She’s Amazing.
The Engine Sound reminds me of a reed vibrating in a wind instrument...

[stefan]

I considered a Cayman GTS but they are just so damn expensive even 1-2 years used. It isn't worth that much more to me than the M2 factoring in the zero usability. Porsches are amazing but you trade off so much.

[WAY]

My GT4. I don’t even know why we are comparing the M2 to GT4s and 911T. My M2 is not even half the cost of my GT4 which is cheaper than the 911T again.