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      01-21-2018, 11:50 AM   #1
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Question 2016 vs 2018

I'm currently looking at moving into an M2 and have my eyes on a 2016 CPO with 7800 miles. At the same time, I think it's prudent to also look at the 2018's as a comparison. There's approximately $8k difference between the 2016 CPO and the new 2018.

My OCD has me caught in this analysis/paralysis trap so I would appreciate any insight that could be provided. Is the 2018 worth the price difference in the 2016 CPO? Anything else to think about when doing this comparison?

Thanks
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      01-21-2018, 11:54 AM   #2
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8k more for brand new....what is to debate? I could see if it were 20k diff or even 15k, but sounds like the CPO is a bit pricy!

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      01-21-2018, 12:05 PM   #3
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So when does the warrantee expire? It’s only 3 years these days... I’d pay for the warantee
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      01-21-2018, 12:18 PM   #4
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I believe you're talking about the maintenance which is 3/36 on 2017 and newer, but the bumper-to-bumper remains 4/50.

For the 2016 CPO, the bumper-to-bumper warranty expires in 4/2020 while the CPO coverage expires in 4/2021. The maintenance on the 2016 runs until 4/2020 as well.

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Originally Posted by Bt12 View Post
So when does the warrantee expire? It’s only 3 years these days... I’d pay for the warantee
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      01-21-2018, 12:21 PM   #5
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Also keep in mind, more then likely when you're ready to sell it, having a 2 year newer M2 will recoup a portion of that $8,000... I don't know how much, but you'd certainly pay more for a 2016 car in similar condition, then for a 2014 car.

As Bt12 stated, warranty may be the biggest factor.

Good luck!
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      01-21-2018, 12:40 PM   #6
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Are the two equipped exactly the same? Or are there extras on either (that you may or may not want)? I'd guess there's more negotiating room on the CPO. Add in sales tax and my guess is the Delta will be closer to $10k. Depends how important the $10k is to you. If you're financing, that's like an extra couple hundred $$ per month.
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      01-21-2018, 12:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crqflier View Post
Are the two equipped exactly the same? Or are there extras on either (that you may or may not want)? I'd guess there's more negotiating room on the CPO. Add in sales tax and my guess is the Delta will be closer to $10k. Depends how important the $10k is to you. If you're financing, that's like an extra couple hundred $$ per month.
They're identically equipped. I'm in a state with a flat $500 sales tax so the $8k is the bottom line difference.

Getting the CPO would result in the same payment I have now, but I don't want to be shortsighted about this decision. My brain is broken. :
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      01-21-2018, 01:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelJW View Post
Also keep in mind, more then likely when you're ready to sell it, having a 2 year newer M2 will recoup a portion of that $8,000... I don't know how much, but you'd certainly pay more for a 2016 car in similar condition, then for a 2014 car.

As Bt12 stated, warranty may be the biggest factor.

Good luck!
Thanks for the response. Ultimately it would be a 2 year B-2-B warranty between the two (2020 vs 2022) or one year when you factor in the extra year if CPO coverage. The CPO is not B-2-B, I know, but it's something.
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      01-21-2018, 01:41 PM   #9
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how long you plan to keep it? the moment you drive off, likely 6k of that 8k will be gone - because guys will think "save 5k, I'd rather have new". you keep it 10 years the 8k will probably be 2-3k difference in resale vs the 2016 - the hit happens quick.
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      01-21-2018, 01:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crqflier View Post
how long you plan to keep it? the moment you drive off, likely 6k of that 8k will be gone - because guys will think "save 5k, I'd rather have new". you keep it 10 years the 8k will probably be 2-3k difference in resale vs the 2016 - the hit happens quick.
Good luck figuring out in advance how long you are going to own this car, or any car for that matter
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      01-21-2018, 02:03 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by champignon View Post
Good luck figuring out in advance how long you are going to own this car, or any car for that matter
I agree with you; it's impossible to predict. I was originally targeting the 2016 (preferably CPO) due to it being the last year of the 4/50 maintenance. The other reason to look at used first was to let someone else take the depreciation hit.
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      01-21-2018, 02:28 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by RBBuff View Post
The other reason to looked at used first was to let someone else take the depreciation hit.
...except in this case they're trying to take only half the initial depreciation hit. A two year old car and they think it's only depreciated $8k? The used one in this case is overpriced.
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      01-22-2018, 01:20 PM   #13
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I see a lot of people mentioning the costs here, rather than the pros and cons of the improvements with the newer model years, so I'm going to focus on that.

The best thing (in my opinion) about the 2018 is its improved headlights, not just from the perspective of how they look aesthetically, but how they perform. The Adaptive LEDs are simply incredible, especially if you code in the European variable light distribution.

The 2018 has iDrive 6, which is a little nicer than iDrive 5, and it also has wireless charging if you get the exec package. Both of these are minor, but worth pointing out.

Finally, 2018 gets you the newer interior, which although looks a bit more modern, still isn't particularly nice. The pre-LCI gauges look nicer to some people, but are nearly impossible to read in some conditions. The LCI gauges are back-lit rather than front-lit, and are therefore always easy to read, but are illuminated white rather than amber. Oh, and 2018 gets you a real oil temp gauge rather than combined oil and water in pre-LCI.

I think the MY2016 had issues with the ASD that resulted in hissing that isn't present in the newer vehicles, even though that's not an LCI thing.
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      01-22-2018, 05:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
I see a lot of people mentioning the costs here, rather than the pros and cons of the improvements with the newer model years, so I'm going to focus on that.

The best thing (in my opinion) about the 2018 is its improved headlights, not just from the perspective of how they look aesthetically, but how they perform. The Adaptive LEDs are simply incredible, especially if you code in the European variable light distribution.

The 2018 has iDrive 6, which is a little nicer than iDrive 5, and it also has wireless charging if you get the exec package. Both of these are minor, but worth pointing out.

Finally, 2018 gets you the newer interior, which although looks a bit more modern, still isn't particularly nice. The pre-LCI gauges look nicer to some people, but are nearly impossible to read in some conditions. The LCI gauges are back-lit rather than front-lit, and are therefore always easy to read, but are illuminated white rather than amber. Oh, and 2018 gets you a real oil temp gauge rather than combined oil and water in pre-LCI.

I think the MY2016 had issues with the ASD that resulted in hissing that isn't present in the newer vehicles, even though that's not an LCI thing.
European variable light distribution? What's that? Can you code with Bimmercode?
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      01-22-2018, 05:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scadagawd View Post
European variable light distribution? What's that? Can you code with Bimmercode?
I've made no secret of my concern about BimmerCode. It ended up costing me $60 to get my navigation working again, and the way it functions worries me for all users of that software... Despite being more complex, E-Sys is far safer, and that's what I've been using and would strongly recommend.

With that being said, you probably could code it by looking in the Expert Mode, assuming you have access to FEM_BODY, which I think you do, the things to change are:
3073 LaMaster1 -> LUT_FLC_FORWARDLIGHTING_Y from F020_ohne_AFS (9C 9C B0) to F020_mit_AFS (9C 9C 9C)
3073 LaMaster1 -> C_AFS_ENA from F020_disable (00) to F020_enable (01)
3073 LaMaster1 -> C_CLC_CURV_V2 from F020_US (41) to F020_ROW (23)
3073 LaMaster1 -> C_CLC_CURV_V3 from F020_US (46) to F020_ROW (28)
The first one sets the default position of dipped beam, the second turns variable light distribution on, and the bottom two set the speed at which cornering lights are active, which may not be necessary.

Please keep in mind that these were the settings I used for my car, which is an LCI car with adaptive LEDs (executive package).

E-Sys would allow you to determine the correct settings for pre-LCI cars, and LCI cars without the executive package (non-adaptive LED) as well as those who got the adaptive LEDs without the executive package. BimmerCode will not help you with that at all.
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      01-22-2018, 05:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
I've made no secret of my concern about BimmerCode. It ended up costing me $60 to get my navigation working again, and the way it functions worries me for all users of that software... Despite being more complex, E-Sys is far safer, and that's what I've been using and would strongly recommend.

With that being said, you probably could code it by looking in the Expert Mode, assuming you have access to FEM_BODY, which I think you do, the things to change are:
3073 LaMaster1 -> LUT_FLC_FORWARDLIGHTING_Y from F020_ohne_AFS (9C 9C B0) to F020_mit_AFS (9C 9C 9C)
3073 LaMaster1 -> C_AFS_ENA from F020_disable (00) to F020_enable (01)
3073 LaMaster1 -> C_CLC_CURV_V2 from F020_US (41) to F020_ROW (23)
3073 LaMaster1 -> C_CLC_CURV_V3 from F020_US (46) to F020_ROW (28)
The first one sets the default position of dipped beam, the second turns variable light distribution on, and the bottom two set the speed at which cornering lights are active, which may not be necessary.

Please keep in mind that these were the settings I used for my car, which is an LCI car with adaptive LEDs (executive package).

E-Sys would allow you to determine the correct settings for pre-LCI cars, and LCI cars without the executive package (non-adaptive LED) as well as those who got the adaptive LEDs without the executive package. BimmerCode will not help you with that at all.
Thanks Nezil. Just wondering how that differs from original adaptive lighting?
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      01-22-2018, 06:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scadagawd View Post
Thanks Nezil. Just wondering how that differs from original adaptive lighting?
Do you mean how it differs from the pre-LCI? I don't know that, but if you had E-Sys, you could get an FA from a pre-LCI car and compare the results to find out

If you mean how does it differ from the standard settings in an LCI car, that's what the 'from' parts indicate; 'from' is standard for US LCI executive package cars, 'to' is what you need to change it to, and is based on what changes by removing 8S4 (Variable Light Decoding) from the build in E-Sys.

My understanding is that DOT rules limit the amount the headlights can move around. This, as you probably already know, is the reason we cannot have the tunnelling feature for high beam that they get in the rest of the world.

Before enabling VLD, the dipped beams move, but not much, and mostly only to the right, away from on-coming traffic. After coding, they move A LOT more, both high beam and low.

At some point, I'll upload a video of how well they move from my drive last night captured on my dashcam, but this is going somewhat off topic for this thread - apologies OP!
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      01-22-2018, 06:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
Do you mean how it differs from the pre-LCI? I don't know that, but if you had E-Sys, you could get an FA from a pre-LCI car and compare the results to find out

If you mean how does it differ from the standard settings in an LCI car, that's what the 'from' parts indicate; 'from' is standard for US LCI executive package cars, 'to' is what you need to change it to, and is based on what changes by removing 8S4 (Variable Light Decoding) from the build in E-Sys.

My understanding is that DOT rules limit the amount the headlights can move around. This, as you probably already know, is the reason we cannot have the tunnelling feature for high beam that they get in the rest of the world.

Before enabling VLD, the dipped beams move, but not much, and mostly only to the right, away from on-coming traffic. After coding, they move A LOT more, both high beam and low.

At some point, I'll upload a video of how well they move from my drive last night captured on my dashcam, but this is going somewhat off topic for this thread - apologies OP!
This sounds Awesome. Thanks.
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      01-22-2018, 07:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
Do you mean how it differs from the pre-LCI? I don't know that, but if you had E-Sys, you could get an FA from a pre-LCI car and compare the results to find out

If you mean how does it differ from the standard settings in an LCI car, that's what the 'from' parts indicate; 'from' is standard for US LCI executive package cars, 'to' is what you need to change it to, and is based on what changes by removing 8S4 (Variable Light Decoding) from the build in E-Sys.

My understanding is that DOT rules limit the amount the headlights can move around. This, as you probably already know, is the reason we cannot have the tunnelling feature for high beam that they get in the rest of the world.

Before enabling VLD, the dipped beams move, but not much, and mostly only to the right, away from on-coming traffic. After coding, they move A LOT more, both high beam and low.

At some point, I'll upload a video of how well they move from my drive last night captured on my dashcam, but this is going somewhat off topic for this thread - apologies OP!
Sounds interesting. Can you explain how this improves the lighting? Or is it just different? Inquiring minds want to know.
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      01-22-2018, 08:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aronis View Post
8k more for brand new....what is to debate? I could see if it were 20k diff or even 15k, but sounds like the CPO is a bit pricy!

Mike
If budget is not an issue, and all options are equal I would lean towards the 18.

On one hand you get the 18 LCI goodies, including new i drive. I'm ok with a 17 or 18, but not a 16 due to 1st year production plus the smaller i drive screen. YMMV.

From a financial perspective: I would estimate these cars depreciate about 12% annual for the first 3 years. So while you pay more up front for the 18, you will get more money back when you sell. 2 model years old would be about an 8k difference. Keep in mind the longer you keep the car the smaller the gap becomes.

Plus who knows what has been done to the used one - break in, alignment needs, etc.

I'm in a similar position but a 17 vs. 18. I'm really torn. About a $4k difference plus a 6 week wait. Add the 17 has MPE on it, that could be a $6k spread. As I tend to flip cars frequently, I'm leaning towards the 17. But ask me tomorrow and I will want the 18. LOL. First world problem.
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      01-22-2018, 08:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
Do you mean how it differs from the pre-LCI? I don't know that, but if you had E-Sys, you could get an FA from a pre-LCI car and compare the results to find out

If you mean how does it differ from the standard settings in an LCI car, that's what the 'from' parts indicate; 'from' is standard for US LCI executive package cars, 'to' is what you need to change it to, and is based on what changes by removing 8S4 (Variable Light Decoding) from the build in E-Sys.

My understanding is that DOT rules limit the amount the headlights can move around. This, as you probably already know, is the reason we cannot have the tunnelling feature for high beam that they get in the rest of the world.

Before enabling VLD, the dipped beams move, but not much, and mostly only to the right, away from on-coming traffic. After coding, they move A LOT more, both high beam and low.

At some point, I'll upload a video of how well they move from my drive last night captured on my dashcam, but this is going somewhat off topic for this thread - apologies OP!

Does the pre LCI exec package have the hardware tech to do this or is it LCI only?
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      01-22-2018, 08:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post

The 2018 has iDrive 6, which is a little nicer than iDrive 5, and it also has wireless charging if you get the exec package. Both of these are minor, but worth pointing out.
Early and mid 2016 actually had ID4 which blows in comparison to 5/6.

6 actually isn't that big of an upgrade from 5. Just a new skin and a touch screen. You can code 5 to look just like 6. It's called ID6lite. I have it and it's great. You can only code it onto ID5 though. With ID4 you're SOL to upgrade it that easily. You'd have to retrofit an entire ID5/6 unit for a pretty penny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
I think the MY2016 had issues with the ASD that resulted in hissing that isn't present in the newer vehicles, even though that's not an LCI thing.
MY16 have different amp hardware then the 17/18s
You can easily just get a bypass harness instead of coding ASD out.
No big deal.

That being said, MY 17 & 18 are both miles better than a 16

The 16's had the differential soda can noise, the brake dust shields that had to be revised, the amp, the idrive...

If it were between a discounted 17 & a new 18 i'd say it's not a big deal If you want to save a little cash and get the 17, but between a 16 and 18 you have to get the 18. No question about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Does the pre LCI exec package have the hardware tech to do this or is it LCI only?
Yes, you can retrofit the LCI LED headlights on any pre lci US spec car since the adaptive xenons were a standard option.
I don't think exec package would affect if you can retro fit them or not. Should just be plug and play. Maybe some coding.

Problem is they're super expensive to buy new and they're too new to find on the second hand market.

The LCI tail lights are surprisingly affordable though. I bought mine for like $500.
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