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      05-19-2018, 05:54 PM   #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k View Post
I drove my friend's M240 on the way to test drive an M2 recently.
Loved the M2, wouldn't buy an M240 if it cost $30k.
It was very fast, no doubt, but felt sterile and numb.
Driving the M240 is like sex with a condom. It'll get the job done, but there is no feel.
This couldn't be more "bang" on.
Most sterile experience I've had in such a fast car. Merging on an onramp with the 8AT was an incredible exercise in efficiency and sterility. No fanfare whatsoever. Almost like driving a Tesla sensation wise.

Its a masterpiece of NVH and steering noise reduction in its own way, especially those crisp accurate computer controlled shifts. But a sports car with lots of excitement it is not.

Almost jizzed myself though coming off the offramp and experiencing the 8AT downshift perfectly through every single gear on the way down to 1st. What a transmission. Like to see a human driver do that in a 6MT (not that you need to but still).
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      05-19-2018, 06:19 PM   #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k View Post
I drove my friend's M240 on the way to test drive an M2 recently.
Loved the M2, wouldn't buy an M240 if it cost $30k.
It was very fast, no doubt, but felt sterile and numb.
Driving the M240 is like sex with a condom. It'll get the job done, but there is no feel.
This couldn't be more "bang" on.
Most sterile experience I've had in such a fast car. Merging on an onramp with the 8AT was an incredible exercise in efficiency and sterility. No fanfare whatsoever. Almost like driving a Tesla sensation wise.

Its a masterpiece of NVH and steering noise reduction in its own way, especially those crisp accurate computer controlled shifts. But a sports car with lots of excitement it is not.

Almost jizzed myself though coming off the offramp and experiencing the 8AT downshift perfectly through every single gear on the way down to 1st. What a transmission. Like to see a human driver do that in a 6MT (not that you need to but still).
Yeah, the ZF8AT's are spectacular transmissions.

But I'll still row my own any day.
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      05-24-2018, 10:11 PM   #443
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Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k View Post
Yeah, the ZF8AT's are spectacular transmissions.

But I'll still row my own any day.
I’ll take my DCT over the ZFBAT any day. And I had an M235i so I know what I am talking about.
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      05-25-2018, 11:52 AM   #444
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k View Post
Yeah, the ZF8AT's are spectacular transmissions.

But I'll still row my own any day.
I’ll take my DCT over the ZFBAT any day. And I had an M235i so I know what I am talking about.
Really? that ZF is something special. If you're going to buy the wrong transmission I think ZF beats out DCT in most situations. Can't tell the difference in upshifting and at low speeds the ZF is better.
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      05-25-2018, 01:25 PM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
If you're going to buy the wrong transmission . . . .


There's an article on MT cars in the Wall Street Journal; there is passing reference to the M2 in the article. I'd give the link but it won't work since it is a paid site. Do a google search for "Wall Street Journal" and "Yes, Cars Still Come With Stick—Here Are a Few New Favorites" and you can probably view it that way.
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Last edited by champignon; 05-25-2018 at 01:33 PM..
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      05-25-2018, 06:13 PM   #446
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Really? that ZF is something special. If you're going to buy the wrong transmission I think ZF beats out DCT in most situations. Can't tell the difference in upshifting and at low speeds the ZF is better.
I strongly disagree. And if it were true, our M2s would come with either a ZF or 6 speed.
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      06-01-2018, 11:49 AM   #447
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I strongly disagree. And if it were true, our M2s would come with either a ZF or 6 speed.
If the DCT was so great, why did they use the ZF in their race car? Why does the new M5 have the ZF? DCT is old tech, this comes from a BMW exec. They probably threw in the DCT into the M2 to make it closer to its M3/M4 siblings. The next generation of M car will probably be ZF.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/9582/bm...-their-way-out
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      06-01-2018, 05:19 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by capt_and View Post
If the DCT was so great, why did they use the ZF in their race car? Why does the new M5 have the ZF? DCT is old tech, this comes from a BMW exec. They probably threw in the DCT into the M2 to make it closer to its M3/M4 siblings. The next generation of M car will probably be ZF.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/9582/bm...-their-way-out
Even the article you quoted stated that DCTs shift faster. It just seems with M5s 600 hp the clutch plates can’t take the power. It is also why there is no 6 speed on the M5.
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      06-01-2018, 05:43 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by DanG View Post
Even the article you quoted stated that DCTs shift faster. It just seems with M5s 600 hp the clutch plates can’t take the power. It is also why there is no 6 speed on the M5.
Can't speak of the MT tq capabilities but, ZF8 is known to be more robust than DCT, hence why aftermarket clutch plates are required when running ~600 HP F80x.
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      06-02-2018, 06:34 PM   #450
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Harman Kardon

I think you also get the Harmon Kardon sound standard in the M2, no?

2011 528i lease returned. Debating M2 or M240i
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      06-02-2018, 06:57 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by ohioplayrs View Post
I think you also get the Harmon Kardon sound standard in the M2, no?

2011 528i lease returned. Debating M2 or M240i
Yes
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      06-03-2018, 02:39 PM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
Even the article you quoted stated that DCTs shift faster. It just seems with M5s 600 hp the clutch plates can’t take the power. It is also why there is no 6 speed on the M5.
I don’t think you actually read the article... The article says:

“The company's steady development of dual clutch transmissions has led to speedier shifts and faster lap times, but according to BMW M’s vice president of sales and marketing, Peter Quintus, they just can't handle the power put out by the highly-tuned engines.”

In regards to the single clutch/torque converter style transmission, “Quintus believes that these transmissions are not only as fast as dual clutch units, but also much more reliable under high power.”
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      06-06-2018, 09:37 AM   #453
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Would I be insane trading a '17 M240i for a '19 M2C?

Love the S55 (though not the sound) and maybe I'm in the minority, but I really like the larger M2C grilles and styling cues. I'm just about ready to pull the trigger but I feel a little foolish trading an M240i that is barely two years old for an M2C and shelling out a pretty good chunk of cash to do so.
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      06-06-2018, 01:18 PM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnell B58 View Post
Would I be insane trading a '17 M240i for a '19 M2C?

Love the S55 (though not the sound) and maybe I'm in the minority, but I really like the larger M2C grilles and styling cues. I'm just about ready to pull the trigger but I feel a little foolish trading an M240i that is barely two years old for an M2C and shelling out a pretty good chunk of cash to do so.
Personally speaking, I would not dump a whole bunch of cash to buy a slightly newer 2-Series/M2 car, if my major reason for doing so was the appearance of the car.

On the other hand, I didn't like the M240i that I test drove; the steering was completely without driver feedback, and the car was not especially sporty, even if powerful. None of us have driven an M2C, so we can only speak from the experience of driving the M2 in its iterations. I'd definitely consider trading in an M240i on an M2, if the cost wasn't too ridiculous, but only if it was because I was seeing a car that drove differently, not because of the looks.
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      06-06-2018, 03:39 PM   #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champignon View Post
Personally speaking, I would not dump a whole bunch of cash to buy a slightly newer 2-Series/M2 car, if my major reason for doing so was the appearance of the car.

On the other hand, I didn't like the M240i that I test drove; the steering was completely without driver feedback, and the car was not especially sporty, even if powerful. None of us have driven an M2C, so we can only speak from the experience of driving the M2 in its iterations. I'd definitely consider trading in an M240i on an M2, if the cost wasn't too ridiculous, but only if it was because I was seeing a car that drove differently, not because of the looks.
I really do enjoy my M240i but I'd like more of a sports car. The additional 70 horsepower, bigger brakes, and stiffer suspension are all big factors for me. I need small backseats for kids, though. In my price range, I think that makes the M2 the best fit. The only other car that fits the bill is a 911 and it's way out of my price range. I'm just wondering whether the better driving dynamics will be noticeably different enough from the M240i to justify the purchase... but based on your experience, it sounds like it's night and day.
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      06-07-2018, 02:15 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnell B58 View Post
I really do enjoy my M240i but I'd like more of a sports car. The additional 70 horsepower, bigger brakes, and stiffer suspension are all big factors for me. I need small backseats for kids, though. In my price range, I think that makes the M2 the best fit. The only other car that fits the bill is a 911 and it's way out of my price range. I'm just wondering whether the better driving dynamics will be noticeably different enough from the M240i to justify the purchase... but based on your experience, it sounds like it's night and day.
i debated the m2 and m240i...i was coming from a 2016 cayman s
i drove both
the m240i FEELS faster as a road car..the b58 has better low end torque and less turbo lag
the m2 looks Much better
the m240i rides better
the m2 handkes much better
the m240i has awd

in the end i was choosing an everyday car which would be my only car in 4 seasons so i went with m240i

if i was choosing a pure drivers car for pure enjoyment..m2 all the way
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      06-07-2018, 06:48 PM   #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnell B58 View Post
I really do enjoy my M240i but I'd like more of a sports car. The additional 70 horsepower, bigger brakes, and stiffer suspension are all big factors for me. I need small backseats for kids, though. In my price range, I think that makes the M2 the best fit. The only other car that fits the bill is a 911 and it's way out of my price range. I'm just wondering whether the better driving dynamics will be noticeably different enough from the M240i to justify the purchase... but based on your experience, it sounds like it's night and day.
I came from an M235i. My advisor let me take my M2 for an extended test drive (over an hour). There was such a better feeling driving the M2 that I traded in my M235i even though it only had 29,000 miles on it and zero problems.

If you don’t need all wheel drive, the M2 is a much better handling and sounding car.
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      06-07-2018, 07:59 PM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capt_and View Post
I don’t think you actually read the article... The article says:

“The company's steady development of dual clutch transmissions has led to speedier shifts and faster lap times, but according to BMW M’s vice president of sales and marketing, Peter Quintus, they just can't handle the power put out by the highly-tuned engines.”

In regards to the single clutch/torque converter style transmission, “Quintus believes that these transmissions are not only as fast as dual clutch units, but also much more reliable under high power.”
They can upshift almost as fast but DCT’s still have superior downshift speeds. Torque converter automatics have advanced greatly like the 8 and 10 speed Ford/GM co-developed transmissions but they still aren’t as optimal for performance driving as a DCT. The fact that Porsche exclusively uses DCT’s in their cars is telling of their superiority. I got a 6-speed manual by the way so I have no horse in this race.
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      06-07-2018, 11:07 PM   #459
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They can upshift almost as fast but DCT’s still have superior downshift speeds. Torque converter automatics have advanced greatly like the 8 and 10 speed Ford/GM co-developed transmissions but they still aren’t as optimal for performance driving as a DCT. The fact that Porsche exclusively uses DCT’s in their cars is telling of their superiority. I got a 6-speed manual by the way so I have no horse in this race.
This whole conversation is a bit like a bunch of guys in a bar discussing which tampon they prefer :-)
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      06-08-2018, 07:46 AM   #460
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This whole conversation is a bit like a bunch of guys in a bar discussing which tampon they prefer :-)
I prefer the ribbed ones.
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      06-11-2018, 06:08 PM   #461
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      06-12-2018, 12:22 AM   #462
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
Even the article you quoted stated that DCTs shift faster. It just seems with M5s 600 hp the clutch plates can't take the power. It is also why there is no 6 speed on the M5.
Can't speak of the MT tq capabilities but, ZF8 is known to be more robust than DCT, hence why aftermarket clutch plates are required when running ~600 HP F80x.
Absolutely. It's max torque rating is 768lbft. And I believe the 6mt is somewhere around 650.

It's better than dct in all scenarios except maybe the most aggressive situations. But even that is improving DCT is dead. Kinda funny to see auto drivers defending one auto box vs another though.
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