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      12-26-2016, 03:06 PM   #23
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Really wish BMW offered the M140 in the states. Literally no other RWD hot hatches with a turbo 6. I think they would sell quite well, but apparently BMW's market research suggests otherwise...
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      12-26-2016, 03:07 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusfva View Post
So even the supposed 400HP for the M2 CS won't be enough to create a real performance gap between these cars.

And about the performance difference between the actual M2 and the Mx40i..we should probably not get into that.
"Performance" is a function of far more than horsepower and torque.
This times 1000.

There's a reason Mazda has performance in its DNA despite having engines with less horsepower than the Budweiser Clydesdales wagon.
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      12-26-2016, 04:56 PM   #25
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I would kill to have this 1 series hatch here in the USA!!!

Damn you BMW
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      12-26-2016, 05:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuz5150 View Post
I would kill to have this 1 series hatch here in the USA!!!

Damn you BMW
I agree I have a m235 but would probably have went for a m135 had the option been there , plus wtf BMW why can't we get the hex cloth seats with blue stitching like the ROW, F choosing between fake leather or leather
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      12-26-2016, 08:06 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Exactly @ Sean...

BMW/M limited the M2 in any possible way putting in the 'low end' N55. Good old N54 is way more sophisticated/tunable and 'high end'. Only the sound is nice but for the rest it lacks grunt and power like S55(and high tech engineering)

I'm going to buy a bigger turbo for my N55 next year....

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The "tuneability" might be disappointing compared to the n54. I would take the m2's n55 variant over the n54 anyday. The power delivery and sound of the M2 is something I prefer over my n54 cars. The n54 isn't stronger, it's just older and easier to get bigger deltas out of the twins. If anything is stronger it's the m2's n55 out of all of them.

The cooling, free revving nature, oil setup, sound, vanos and simplicity of a single turbo setup sold me. It's great to see the n55 catching up with the n54 in the aftermarket. If we had a decent HPFP that could handle e85 flows we would see tons of 550whp n55's running around for only $2,500. Wish we didn't have to mess with PI or meth to supplement fueling
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      12-26-2016, 08:13 PM   #28
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One question would be for BMW: why does the M2 need to resort to such hardware changes from a tuning house for horsepower increase whereas the M240i 's B58 almost has the same horsepower and superior torque as the M2's N55, and has more tuning potential without the hardware upgrade...
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      12-26-2016, 11:50 PM   #29
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Yes the stock N55 turbo is limited in topend flow. But since almost 2 years there is pure stage2 available.

It will make the N55 engine beastly again. With proper fuelling (hpfp limit) you can easily get over 500hp.

People spend a lot of money on carbon fibre parts and exhaust that dont bring power. Even on the stock fuel system you get a much more broad power band with a pure stage2 upgrade. Give it some more octane and fuel and you have a killer N55!
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      12-26-2016, 11:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuz5150
I would kill to have this 1 series hatch here in the USA!!!

Damn you BMW
Due to having an I6 and RWD the 1 series doesn't compare well to the FWD competitors with regards to interior space. Perhaps BMW will bring them over when converted to FWD.
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      12-27-2016, 12:22 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
One question would be for BMW: why does the M2 need to resort to such hardware changes from a tuning house for horsepower increase whereas the M240i 's B58 almost has the same horsepower and superior torque as the M2's N55, and has more tuning potential without the hardware upgrade...
All this info has been published.
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      12-27-2016, 01:07 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
Of course there will be a gap with the S55 M2 CS vs the B58 models.

You think the S55 M2 CS will just have 400hp? Think along the lines that how much the M3/M4 S55s had been underrated and you will have a more realistic figure with the CS.
I think I'd rather just have an S58..
On H2o
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      12-27-2016, 05:19 AM   #33
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Day to day vs the track thing

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Originally Posted by CommitConfirm View Post
Very true!


Having seen the dyno results it kinda stings a bit. I would have liked the M2 to have had a bigger performance gap. I wonder if I would have been just as happy in a well spec'd Mx40i?

On a daily driver I'd trade the better performance at the lower and mid ranges over a higher top end. Maybe they should build a B58 'LCI' M2?
On the track is where you feel the M2 edge but I suspect day to day on the roads and the lights the 40 would be better.
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      12-27-2016, 07:45 AM   #34
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Becauze for the 500th time, the N55 simply sucks.
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      12-27-2016, 09:07 AM   #35
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I don't understand what is surprising about this...
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      12-27-2016, 09:42 AM   #36
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The M2 is all about track handling. It's got M4 suspension and chassis tuning. The M140/240 is soft and comfy and even in sport+ it is not an M2. Everyone who tracks their M235/240 puts in camber plates and control arms from the M4. Or even add a whole set of coilovers. I love my M235i as a daily driver and it's fun on the weekends, but it's not an M2. If money were no object I would have one of each. Or an additional Caymen, with the flat six thank you very much! If I needed a new everyday car, I would still go for the M240. I do wish we could get the M140 in the US. five doors would be great. And what a sleeper, blowing away older mustangs and even vettes! I'm also disappointed that we will no longer get the 3 series station wagon. But at least we get 25 different versions of X SUV/CUVs. :-(
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      12-27-2016, 10:08 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusfva View Post
So even the supposed 400HP for the M2 CS won't be enough to create a real performance gap between these cars.

And about the performance difference between the actual M2 and the Mx40i..we should probably not get into that.
"Performance" is a function of far more than horsepower and torque.
HEY, this is the internet, keep your intelligence to yourself at home!!
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      12-27-2016, 10:15 AM   #38
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Let's take both cars to the track for couple hundred laps, I'd be interested to see how they hold up.
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      12-27-2016, 10:38 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Downeaster1 View Post
I don't understand what is surprising about this...
Good point. Are they surprised because they expected to dyno BMW's marketing figures, even after the B58 has been dyno'd and tuned by others for over a year now? Isn't it more surprising that a tuner, whose business it is to know such things, was unaware of this platform's characteristics until just now? What is going on?
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      12-27-2016, 10:46 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
"Performance" is a function of far more than horsepower and torque.
As others have said, this sums it up very well.

Car vs car on a dyno is pretty much the most useless head to head I can think of. Dynos are good for assessing (some aspects of) a car's drive train on its own - not in a competition.

But think of the safety gains if they put all Formula 1, Indy and Nascar cars on dynos instead of on the pavement!!
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      12-27-2016, 01:35 PM   #41
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Damn, interesting results. Maybe the LCI M2 will also get a M-tuned B58... ?
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      12-27-2016, 01:40 PM   #42
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But the n55 in the m2 isn't just any normal n55 correct. Doesn't it have some s55 internals???

Also I agree with everyone else on m140i in the states! See so many hot hatches on the road I'm surprised BMW thinks theyre not marketable.
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      12-27-2016, 02:31 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono2112 View Post
The M2 is all about track handling. It's got M4 suspension and chassis tuning. The M140/240 is soft and comfy and even in sport+ it is not an M2. Everyone who tracks their M235/240 puts in camber plates and control arms from the M4. Or even add a whole set of coilovers. I love my M235i as a daily driver and it's fun on the weekends, but it's not an M2. If money were no object I would have one of each. Or an additional Caymen, with the flat six thank you very much! If I needed a new everyday car, I would still go for the M240. I do wish we could get the M140 in the US. five doors would be great. And what a sleeper, blowing away older mustangs and even vettes! I'm also disappointed that we will no longer get the 3 series station wagon. But at least we get 25 different versions of X SUV/CUVs. :-(
Imagine what would happen if they put the B58 form the Mx40I in the F87, we'd have the best of both world Maybe call it a Life Cycle Impulse?
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      12-27-2016, 03:36 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuz5150 View Post
I would kill to have this 1 series hatch here in the USA!!!

Damn you BMW
Same What a beast
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