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      10-03-2017, 12:31 PM   #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer4life24 View Post
Why won't they release the 2018 residual amounts?
sorry I was driving when I got it and have not added it yet. Ill add it now stand by
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      10-03-2017, 12:32 PM   #376
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here you go
October programing
2017 models
MF .00152
M2
36mo
15k 42%
12k 44%
10k 45%

finance 3.31%

2018 models
MF .00152
m2
36mo
15k 49%
12k 51%
10k 52%
APR 3.31%
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      10-04-2017, 01:03 AM   #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFFRR View Post
here you go
October programing
2017 models
MF .00152
M2
36mo
15k 42%
12k 44%
10k 45%

finance 3.31%

2018 models
MF .00152
m2
36mo
15k 49%
12k 51%
10k 52%
APR 3.31%
anyone think it's a good idea to lease the 2018? Or still smarter to buy?
I like to lease then buy incase someone hits my car and screw up my car fax and lose value on the car. And if I were to not like the car I can just lease return it. Thoughts?
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      10-04-2017, 01:37 AM   #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PokGuy View Post
anyone think it's a good idea to lease the 2018? Or still smarter to buy?
I like to lease then buy incase someone hits my car and screw up my car fax and lose value on the car. And if I were to not like the car I can just lease return it. Thoughts?
I was wondering this myself, and decided to run the numbers...

I'm not 100% sure I'm doing the lease calculations correctly, but this is what I get:

Finance - 2.49% over 72 months with a local CU, $18,000 down works out as $44,600 financed, and a monthly payment of $668

Lease - using the figures above, makes it that I'd need to put down (capitalised cost reduction) ~$10,000 at the start to get me to a monthly lease payment of $670

If we look at where we'd be after the 36 month lease term, you'd still owe the residual, of ~$29,600 (assuming 52% residual), and sales tax on top of this if you wanted to buying the car, making a total of ~$32,250 at the CA sales tax rate of 9%.

After 36 months in the finance case, I'd still owe ~$23,150, but don't forget that I put down an additional $8,000 at that start for finance. Add this on and we get to ~$31,150, so only a difference of $1,100...

With these new figures, it's pretty close to costing the same. Of course, it would work out differently if you're in a state where the full sales tax is charge at lease inception.

The other thing to keep in mind is that I'm aiming for a monthly cost of less than $700 - actually I aimed for less than $600 and failed, but isn't that always the case when you make a new big purchase! In doing so, I find that I need a longer finance term that also brings in a slightly higher rate. If I financed over 36 months, the monthly payments would be much higher, but I'd certainly pay less interest.

In summary, in my case, if I'm going to definitely keep the car longer than 36 months, it makes sense to do a finance... but barely. If I want the ease of being able to just check it back in to the dealer, it would only cost me $1,100 extra, which spread 3 years is only $35 / month... something to consider for sure.
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      10-04-2017, 02:43 AM   #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
I was wondering this myself, and decided to run the numbers...

I'm not 100% sure I'm doing the lease calculations correctly, but this is what I get:

Finance - 2.49% over 72 months with a local CU, $18,000 down works out as $44,600 financed, and a monthly payment of $668

Lease - using the figures above, makes it that I'd need to put down (capitalised cost reduction) ~$10,000 at the start to get me to a monthly lease payment of $670

If we look at where we'd be after the 36 month lease term, you'd still owe the residual, of ~$29,600 (assuming 52% residual), and sales tax on top of this if you wanted to buying the car, making a total of ~$32,250 at the CA sales tax rate of 9%.

After 36 months in the finance case, I'd still owe ~$23,150, but don't forget that I put down an additional $8,000 at that start for finance. Add this on and we get to ~$31,150, so only a difference of $1,100...

With these new figures, it's pretty close to costing the same. Of course, it would work out differently if you're in a state where the full sales tax is charge at lease inception.

The other thing to keep in mind is that I'm aiming for a monthly cost of less than $700 - actually I aimed for less than $600 and failed, but isn't that always the case when you make a new big purchase! In doing so, I find that I need a longer finance term that also brings in a slightly higher rate. If I financed over 36 months, the monthly payments would be much higher, but I'd certainly pay less interest.

In summary, in my case, if I'm going to definitely keep the car longer than 36 months, it makes sense to do a finance... but barely. If I want the ease of being able to just check it back in to the dealer, it would only cost me $1,100 extra, which spread 3 years is only $35 / month... something to consider for sure.
I'm also in California! Southern California! I on the other hand don't have any money to put down so I'll have to just pay a big monthly which is fine. And my math is close to yours, if I lease then I will be paying a big monthly payment first but buying out the car will be very cheap (at $29k) and it gives me a safety net in case the car doesn't hold its value or if someone runs into my car 2-3 times of ownership and decreases the value of my car. I think I'll be leasing and pay $988 tax included and I'll just finance the rest if I do decide to keep it. Thinking about picking it up tmrw, there's one perfectly spec'd the way I like it. 2018 white manual with executive @$56,045
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      10-04-2017, 04:47 AM   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
I was wondering this myself, and decided to run the numbers...

I'm not 100% sure I'm doing the lease calculations correctly, but this is what I get:

Finance - 2.49% over 72 months with a local CU, $18,000 down works out as $44,600 financed, and a monthly payment of $668

Lease - using the figures above, makes it that I'd need to put down (capitalised cost reduction) ~$10,000 at the start to get me to a monthly lease payment of $670

If we look at where we'd be after the 36 month lease term, you'd still owe the residual, of ~$29,600 (assuming 52% residual), and sales tax on top of this if you wanted to buying the car, making a total of ~$32,250 at the CA sales tax rate of 9%.

After 36 months in the finance case, I'd still owe ~$23,150, but don't forget that I put down an additional $8,000 at that start for finance. Add this on and we get to ~$31,150, so only a difference of $1,100...

With these new figures, it's pretty close to costing the same. Of course, it would work out differently if you're in a state where the full sales tax is charge at lease inception.

The other thing to keep in mind is that I'm aiming for a monthly cost of less than $700 - actually I aimed for less than $600 and failed, but isn't that always the case when you make a new big purchase! In doing so, I find that I need a longer finance term that also brings in a slightly higher rate. If I financed over 36 months, the monthly payments would be much higher, but I'd certainly pay less interest.

In summary, in my case, if I'm going to definitely keep the car longer than 36 months, it makes sense to do a finance... but barely. If I want the ease of being able to just check it back in to the dealer, it would only cost me $1,100 extra, which spread 3 years is only $35 / month... something to consider for sure.
I ran all these numbers today too in anticipation of taking delivery in a couple of days .

I do an analysis that I've refined over the years that takes into consideration the lost earning power of money invested in the car. I assume that I can make at least 5% tax free on cash (easy to do - with BFZ or NAC), so paying cash for a car always has the nasty side effect of losing the earning power of all that cash. This usually makes leasing-to-buy better. And it usually has more to do with the money factor (interest rate) than it does the residual. if you intend to buy at the end of the lease, residual doesn't matter - but money factor does. I don't get concerned with monthly payment - but rather total financing cost - and I work to minimize that.

Anyway - I did the analysis of 1) lease at 52%, MF = 00152 (3.65%), 2) 3.31% BMW FS financing rate or 3) cash.

Financing was better (but just barely) than leasing with zero cap cost reduction and zero downpayment on loan.

If I took downpayment to about $7K, leasing became better (because it made the payment smaller, thus leaving more cash to earn 5% tax free ... and this delta eventually overcame the difference in interest rate of loan vs lease).

Paying cash was the worst - losing that 5% tax free can never overcome a finance rate that is less than 5%.

I've decided to lease because 1) I'll put $7K down to make it financially the most efficient and 2) for those reasons that have been mentioned in previous posts (gives me a clean, predictable exit if something happens to the car that make me not want it anymore - like somebody rear-ends me - or like if there's a new Z4M that is irresistible. )

BTW Nezil - our tax rate in OC (SoCal) is 7.75% What jacks your rate to 9% in NorCal? City load or something? Also - I see you're doing an analysis with a better financing rate than BMW FS's - but given that your lease scenario allows you to keep 8K more in the bank if you lease rather than finance, I wonder if the earnings power of that 8K might make the lease more attractive. It will be only a modest difference (5% on that 8K over 3 years earns $1200 - which I believe makes your lease buyout $100 cheaper than your loan balance at 3 years), but it might make you more comfortable to do lease - just a thought.
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      10-04-2017, 09:14 AM   #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjclyde View Post
I ran all these numbers today too in anticipation of taking delivery in a couple of days .

I do an analysis that I've refined over the years that takes into consideration the lost earning power of money invested in the car. I assume that I can make at least 5% tax free on cash (easy to do - with BFZ or NAC), so paying cash for a car always has the nasty side effect of losing the earning power of all that cash. This usually makes leasing-to-buy better. And it usually has more to do with the money factor (interest rate) than it does the residual. if you intend to buy at the end of the lease, residual doesn't matter - but money factor does. I don't get concerned with monthly payment - but rather total financing cost - and I work to minimize that.

Anyway - I did the analysis of 1) lease at 52%, MF = 00152 (3.65%), 2) 3.31% BMW FS financing rate or 3) cash.

Financing was better (but just barely) than leasing with zero cap cost reduction and zero downpayment on loan.

If I took downpayment to about $7K, leasing became better (because it made the payment smaller, thus leaving more cash to earn 5% tax free ... and this delta eventually overcame the difference in interest rate of loan vs lease).

Paying cash was the worst - losing that 5% tax free can never overcome a finance rate that is less than 5%.

I've decided to lease because 1) I'll put $7K down to make it financially the most efficient and 2) for those reasons that have been mentioned in previous posts (gives me a clean, predictable exit if something happens to the car that make me not want it anymore - like somebody rear-ends me - or like if there's a new Z4M that is irresistible. )

BTW Nezil - our tax rate in OC (SoCal) is 7.75% What jacks your rate to 9% in NorCal? City load or something? Also - I see you're doing an analysis with a better financing rate than BMW FS's - but given that your lease scenario allows you to keep 8K more in the bank if you lease rather than finance, I wonder if the earnings power of that 8K might make the lease more attractive. It will be only a modest difference (5% on that 8K over 3 years earns $1200 - which I believe makes your lease buyout $100 cheaper than your loan balance at 3 years), but it might make you more comfortable to do lease - just a thought.
Thanks for your feedback and explaination! I'll prob follow you and do the lease route. It's manual and I'm afraid I might get tired of shifting all the time later on lol. I live in Walnut so my tax is 9.25% but maybe I can rent a place for a day in OC or something and get a better tax rate...
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      10-04-2017, 12:33 PM   #382
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Thanks for your feedback and explaination! I'll prob follow you and do the lease route. It's manual and I'm afraid I might get tired of shifting all the time later on lol. I live in Walnut so my tax is 9.25% but maybe I can rent a place for a day in OC or something and get a better tax rate...
Wow - I had no idea sales tax rates were so high in LA County. Out of curiousity, I browsed rates here: http://www.boe.ca.gov/app/rates.aspx. Long Beach, Santa Monica and others are at 10.25% Unbelievable. I guess I should stop complaining about our rate.

Well - with sales tax rates that high, it makes leasing even more attractive - cuz you don't have to pay all the sales tax. You eventually do if you buy the car at lease end - but if you don't buy it a lease end, you'll never have to pay sales tax on the residual (in CA).
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      10-04-2017, 08:00 PM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjclyde View Post
I ran all these numbers today too in anticipation of taking delivery in a couple of days .

I do an analysis that I've refined over the years that takes into consideration the lost earning power of money invested in the car. I assume that I can make at least 5% tax free on cash (easy to do - with BFZ or NAC), so paying cash for a car always has the nasty side effect of losing the earning power of all that cash.
Wow, wish I could make 5%+ tax-free with investments. The Ohio versions of this concept don't do anywhere near that well.
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      10-04-2017, 08:49 PM   #384
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Wow, wish I could make 5%+ tax-free with investments. The Ohio versions of this concept don't do anywhere near that well.
Both BFZ and NAC are federal tax free as well as CA state tax free. That's still pretty easy return even if you have to pay Ohio state tax on it. No? I bet you would still net more than you would have to pay on today's low-interest auto financing options. But YMMV.

BTW - I am not promoting any investment strategy here, nor am I a representative of BFZ or NAC - just pointing them out as simple examples of fed and CA-state tax free investment vehicles that yield a bit more than 5%. I am sure there are other similar vehicles available.
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      10-29-2017, 09:44 AM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFFRR View Post
here you go
October programing
2017 models
MF .00152
M2
36mo
15k 42%
12k 44%
10k 45%

finance 3.31%

2018 models
MF .00152
m2
36mo
15k 49%
12k 51%
10k 52%
APR 3.31%
I know fleet rebate doesnt apply to M2, does the $2k rebate financing with bmwfs count? Dont see anything mentioning rebates so assume nothing applies to M2.
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      10-29-2017, 09:46 AM   #386
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Quote:
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I know fleet rebate doesnt apply to M2, does the $2k rebate financing with bmwfs count? Dont see anything mentioning rebates so assume nothing applies to M2.
I don't believe there is anything for M2 still this month. Maybe Novembers programing will have something
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      11-01-2017, 12:04 PM   #387
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November programing
2017 models
MF .00152
M2
36mo
15k 42%
12k 44%
10k 45%

finance 3.31%

2018 models
MF .00152
m2
36mo
15k 48%
12k 50%
10k 51%
APR 3.31%
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      11-01-2017, 08:35 PM   #388
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Does leasing makes any sense now? Hopefully it will be good when time to receive my M2 is up in February 2018.
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      11-02-2017, 08:05 AM   #389
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Does leasing makes any sense now? Hopefully it will be good when time to receive my M2 is up in February 2018.
I believe my M2 is coming in January, since itís week 47 production. I donít think BMW FS needs to make the lease deal more attractive, as the cars arenít just sitting on lots. Iím planning on just buying the M2 at this point. I do like the M2 over the M3, but the M3 lease special right now is really attractive.
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      11-03-2017, 12:34 AM   #390
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My dealer insists that the m2 qualifies for my fleet discount. This would be a BTO m2. Is there anyway to make sure this is included in the price prior to arrival with just a deposit?
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      11-03-2017, 12:43 AM   #391
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My dealer insists that the m2 qualifies for my fleet discount. This would be a BTO m2. Is there anyway to make sure this is included in the price prior to arrival with just a deposit?
I would love to hear this is true. The fleet website doesn't list anything right now for the M2. I got the fleet deal on the wife's 428GC way back when. It was a good part of the reason I leased the car in the first place.
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      11-03-2017, 01:12 AM   #392
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I would love to hear this is true. The fleet website doesn't list anything right now for the M2. I got the fleet deal on the wife's 428GC way back when. It was a good part of the reason I leased the car in the first place.
I had him verify with his manager, and he said it qualifies. Not sure how. I also had two other dealerships tell me it doesnít. I am worried that Iím going to place the order and when I try to pick up they will try to switch things up. Havenít bought a new car before, So Iím not sure how to get this discount locked in.

Last edited by JPizzz; 11-03-2017 at 01:21 AM.
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      11-03-2017, 06:52 AM   #393
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OK everyone I want to shoot a quick post in here since this thread is not as active mostly due to not a lot of M2s out there still.

This thread is for posting quotes, deals, and questions about programing. So please try and keep it on topic.

when you post your quotes please make sure you post the full breakdown of the quote. Posting just the sale price is not going to help you get a correct assessment of your quote.

example. If you are leasing, what is the money factor, the residual, fees, incentives, do you have a allocation, etc..

again sale price is just part of the deal.

happy Friday!
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      11-03-2017, 06:55 AM   #394
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s
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPizzz View Post
My dealer insists that the m2 qualifies for my fleet discount. This would be a BTO m2. Is there anyway to make sure this is included in the price prior to arrival with just a deposit?
I don't have the info on me but I can ask David later today when I call into the store. but the answer to your question is simple. Get it in writing from your dealer that you will get it and that way you are covered either way.

What I would suggest you do prior to doing anything is get a full breakdown of the quote and post it in here. The more detail you can get the better. Remember the sale price is just part of the overall deal. Also make sure you have a for sure allocation, if you don't have a production number you don't have a allocation. No allocation means who knows when you will get one.

also I would highly recommend if you have not already, locking in November programing with your dealer as well your negotiated deal with your dealer. that way you know exactly what your paying etc.. before the car arrives. You can lock in programing for 60 or 90 days depending on the location of your dealer. East region is 60 and west region is 90. DO NOT wait for the car to come to go over pricing etc.. if you do this you are at the mercy of the dealer
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      11-03-2017, 08:56 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by GOLFFRR View Post
s

I don't have the info on me but I can ask David later today when I call into the store. but the answer to your question is simple. Get it in writing from your dealer that you will get it and that way you are covered either way.

What I would suggest you do prior to doing anything is get a full breakdown of the quote and post it in here. The more detail you can get the better. Remember the sale price is just part of the overall deal. Also make sure you have a for sure allocation, if you don't have a production number you don't have a allocation. No allocation means who knows when you will get one.

also I would highly recommend if you have not already, locking in November programing with your dealer as well your negotiated deal with your dealer. that way you know exactly what your paying etc.. before the car arrives. You can lock in programing for 60 or 90 days depending on the location of your dealer. East region is 60 and west region is 90. DO NOT wait for the car to come to go over pricing etc.. if you do this you are at the mercy of the dealer
Thanks for the advice! What do you mean by lock in November programming? Would this be signing a contract with the order? Also, do I ask production number before or after itís placed. All i know is that he has an allocation for end of Nov and said that it would arrive about 3 weeks after that, not sure exactly what he means but will obviously get more details.
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      11-03-2017, 09:16 AM   #396
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Thanks for the advice! What do you mean by lock in November programming? Would this be signing a contract with the order? Also, do I ask production number before or after itís placed. All i know is that he has an allocation for end of Nov and said that it would arrive about 3 weeks after that, not sure exactly what he means but will obviously get more details.
a couple things. I don't want to get this thread off topic so ill make it brief since this info is all over the forums and can be found with a little search

1. locking in requires your dealer to run your credit so you will need to submit a credit app. Once you do so your dealer will lock you in with BMWFS for 60/90 days depending on your dealers region. What that does is enables you to pick the best programing within that locked time period as long as you take delivery within that locked period. example: you lock in November rates, your dealer is east region so you have locked in time frame of 60 days. You take delivery in December, December programing is not as good as Novembers so since you are locked in you can pick to use November rates. once the locked in time expires you will need to re lock again which would require you to run credit again.

2. if your dealer has a allocation and you get the production number know that once the car starts production you are looking at 7-9 weeks till the car arrives at your dealer, not 3. So you may want to clarify that. If your dealer is telling you 3 weeks then it could be the case where its a car they already have ordered and specd you and is on its way here already

ok sorry everyone lets get back on topic.
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