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      03-20-2018, 07:32 PM   #1
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Need courtesy delivery help...

Hey guys, we've got an M2 scheduled for ED in May, and as some of you might recall we had a heck of a time getting an ED at all. We're in Phoenix, AZ and there are 4 BMW dealer groups in our area, including BMW Palm Springs and BMW of Tucson. Of those 4, only 1 would do an ED, and they weren't as knowledgeable about the process as we needed them to be. We ultimately got a referral from someone on this forum - who knows how much we appreciate it - and connected with a fantastic dealer out of Texas who is setting up the ED perfectly.

We've now run into our next obstacle...they've requested courtesy delivery with a dealer near us here in Phoenix, a dealer that we called first but who declined to take our order unless we did local delivery, and that dealer is requesting $1000 for a courtesy delivery fee.

Our Texas dealer says they've never paid a fee this large. What do you guys know about this? I have spoken to our sales rep contact at the dealer - again, we offered them first go at the sale, but they declined an ED outright - and he says there's absolutely no hard feelings about our buying elsewhere since they declined the ED request. I'm guessing the $1000 charge demand is coming from management, above his level.

Is this fee normal in anyone else's experience?

Edit - have done some Googling, which I should have done up front admittedly, and it seems this is not uncommon. Dealers can decline outright and refuse courtesy delivery, they can charge whatever they want. We will try and negotiate with them, as they have an excellent service rep and they would be our service/warranty dealer going forward. If Mod wants to delete, no problem, my apology for not Googling this first.

Last edited by Fear-Mongrel; 03-20-2018 at 09:29 PM..
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      03-20-2018, 08:54 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afwares View Post
Hey guys, we've got an M2 scheduled for ED in May, and as some of you might recall we had a heck of a time getting an ED at all. We're in Phoenix, AZ and there are 4 BMW dealer groups in our area, including BMW Palm Springs and BMW of Tucson. Of those 4, only 1 would do an ED, and they were borderline-clueless about the process. We ultimately got a referral from someone on this forum - who knows how much we appreciate it - and connected with a fantastic dealer out of Texas who is setting up the ED perfectly.

We've now run into our next obstacle...they've requested courtesy delivery with a dealer here near us here in Phoenix, BMW of North Scottsdale, a dealer that we called first but who declined to take our order unless we did local delivery, and that dealer is demanding $1000 for a courtesy delivery fee.

Our Texas dealer says they've never heard of this, never had to pay any fee. What do you guys know about this? I have spoken to our sales rep contact at BMW North Scottsdale - again, we offered them first go at the sale, but they declined an ED outright - and he says there's absolutely no hard feelings about our buying elsewhere since they declined the ED request. I'm guessing the $1000 charge demand is coming from management, above his level.

Is this fee normal in anyone else's experience?
Can you pick the car up in Texas? I'd do that before I'd give those creeps the money.
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      03-20-2018, 09:10 PM   #3
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Yes, can always go to Texas and get it. Flight will be under $300. About 700 miles / 11 hours drive back to Phoenix.

Last edited by Fear-Mongrel; 03-20-2018 at 09:21 PM..
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      03-20-2018, 10:23 PM   #4
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You can also see what the Texas dealer would charge you to deliver to your house. The local dealer must service your car regardless of where it came from.
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      03-20-2018, 10:57 PM   #5
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Are the other 3 dealers in the area not too far away for you to consider using any or all of them for service? If so, I'd walk into the dealer you requested courtesy delivery with and ask for the manager, tell them you had to go elsewhere since they would not do ED for you, and that you'd like to give them the service business for your new M2 if they would be willing to accept your courtesy delivery request with no fee.

If that doesn't do it, I'd tell them they'll never get any business from you, and you'll be sharing your negative experience with everyone you know. Then I'd leave.

I would not negotiate on this - while it's true this is far from unheard of, that doesn't make it right. Dealers make most of their money from service, not sales, and the choice for them is this: they may not have made any income on the sale from you (their fault), but they have the opportunity to make service income [or nothing]. Don't give them a dime. I'd fly out and drive it back - even if they offered a lower fee - on principle.
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      03-20-2018, 11:04 PM   #6
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Out of curiosity I take it that both Chapman dealers didn't know about ED?
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      03-20-2018, 11:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
You can also see what the Texas dealer would charge you to deliver to your house. The local dealer must service your car regardless of where it came from.
We've considered this as well, not a bad suggestion, but I'd lean towards a quickie flight to Texas first I think.

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Originally Posted by bobert View Post
Are the other 3 dealers in the area not too far away for you to consider using any or all of them for service? If so, I'd walk into the dealer you requested courtesy delivery with and ask for the manager, tell them you had to go elsewhere since they would not do ED for you, and that you'd like to give them the service business for your new M2 if they would be willing to accept your courtesy delivery request with no fee.

If that doesn't do it, I'd tell them they'll never get any business from you, and you'll be sharing your negative experience with everyone you know. Then I'd leave.

I would not negotiate on this - while it's true this is far from unheard of, that doesn't make it right. Dealers make most of their money from service, not sales, and the choice for them is this: they may not have made any income on the sale from you (their fault), but they have the opportunity to make service income [or nothing]. Don't give them a dime. I'd fly out and drive it back - even if they offered a lower fee - on principle.
One is Tuscon, 2+ hours South. Another is Palm Springs, about 3+ hours West. And the 3rd is the dealer 16 miles from us that we bailed on (for all the reasons you already know about) - their inability to stop lying to us is only exceeded by the number of bad service reviews they get in town. We wouldn't have used them for service even if they had figured out the ED.

Incidentally, I feel EXACTLY how you describe. The only reason we had to go through all of this, and end up buying out of Texas, is this dealer refused the ED order even though they had allocations. The sales rep is a good dude - we'd have been glad to work with him, if only they'd taken our order. We're offering our service business - they're right down the street from our largest client, so it's not a hollow promise - and have even told them they can do a minimum-effort delivery. We don't need them to wash it, detail it, clean it, or even gas it up. They can leave the white transport protective sheeting on it too. No salesman presentation is requested, no BMW Genius delivery demonstration needed. Just the absolute minimum required for me to get the keys from them. I feel like if they can't do the delivery gratis, in exchange for years of service business, on principle I should find another way. I think the Texas dealer was even angrier than we were when we found out about the $1000 charge, given the circumstances behind the situation, and that we tried to give this local dealer the sale first.
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      03-20-2018, 11:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afwares View Post
One is Tuscon, 2+ hours South. Another is Palm Springs, about 3+ hours West. And the 3rd is the dealer 16 miles from us that we bailed on (for all the reasons you already know about) - their inability to stop lying to us is only exceeded by the number of bad service reviews they get in town. We wouldn't have used them for service even if they had figured out the ED.

Incidentally, I feel EXACTLY how you describe. The only reason we had to go through all of this, and end up buying out of Texas, is this dealer refused the ED order even though they had allocations. The sales rep is a good dude - we'd have been glad to work with him, if only they'd taken our order. We're offering our service business - they're right down the street from our largest client, so it's not a hollow promise - and have even told them they can do a minimum-effort delivery. We don't need them to wash it, detail it, clean it, or even gas it up. They can leave the white transport protective sheeting on it too. No salesman presentation is requested, no BMW Genius delivery demonstration needed. Just the absolute minimum required for me to get the keys from them. I feel like if they can't do the delivery gratis, in exchange for years of service business, on principle I should find another way. I think the Texas dealer was even angrier than we were when we found out about the $1000 charge, given the circumstances behind the situation, and that we tried to give this local dealer the sale first.
Ok, so one other dealer is within reasonable service range - you can tell the requested dealer you'll take your service business to that one (i.e., 'lie' ) if they won't do courtesy delivery for free - as you correctly point out, there is pretty much zero effort required on their part - they only have to allow the truck driver to unload & park it on their lot, accept a piece of paper, and secure your key fob. That's it - feel free to point that out. (It won't come with white sheeting on it since it's an ED car.) Asking for a fee for courtesy delivery is offensive.
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      03-20-2018, 11:46 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Kristalov View Post
Out of curiosity I take it that both Chapman dealers didn't know about ED?
After the dealer in question refused the deal, we actually connected with Chapman - they're the only dealer in the region that will do ED on an M2. But we had to move on from them. Actually, the reason we found this forum was to try and verify the things Chapman was telling us about the whole allocation and ED process, and the good people on this forum - including bobert - clued us in that what we were being told wasn't at all accurate. If Chapman knew half as much about the allocation and ED process as bobert, we wouldn't have had to find a dealer in Texas, that's the truth.
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      03-20-2018, 11:51 PM   #10
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Ok, so one other dealer is within reasonable service range - you can tell the requested dealer you'll take your service business to that one (i.e., 'lie' ) if they won't do courtesy delivery for free - as you correctly point out, there is pretty much zero effort required on their part - they only have to allow the truck driver to unload & park it on their lot, accept a piece of paper, and secure your key fob. That's it - feel free to point that out. (It won't come with white sheeting on it since it's an ED car.) Asking for a fee for courtesy delivery is offensive.
So when I assume that I'm requesting a minimum-effort delivery, I'm not being naive or underestimating the task. It really is that simple - they really aren't doing very much and I'm not being unreasonable thinking that years of maintenance/service in exchange for this small amount of work is win-win for both of us. Thanks bobert, this info sort of gives me peace of mind that I'm not out of line, and that I'm not making an unfair proposition to this dealer. I want to be fair, but it feels like paying for delivery in this particular situation isn't really fair.
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      03-20-2018, 11:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobert View Post
Ok, so one other dealer is within reasonable service range - you can tell the requested dealer you'll take your service business to that one (i.e., 'lie' ) if they won't do courtesy delivery for free - as you correctly point out, there is pretty much zero effort required on their part - they only have to allow the truck driver to unload & park it on their lot, accept a piece of paper, and secure your key fob. That's it - feel free to point that out. (It won't come with white sheeting on it since it's an ED car.) Asking for a fee for courtesy delivery is offensive.
Appreciate the sentiment, but really, life is too short. There is no reason to transfer your animosity with the sales dept. onto the service dept. My experience with dealers is that there is almost zero connection between their sales and service staffs. You want the service staff to go to bat for you if you have an issue, not to be remembering unpleasantness carrying over from your sales experience.

To the OP, the way to do this is to take a short flight to Texas and to drive the car back home. When you show up in the service department, with an appointment, they will have no opinion of you one way or the other, and the sales staff will have long forgotten that you exist. That's the way you want it.
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      03-21-2018, 12:34 AM   #12
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To the OP, the way to do this is to take a short flight to Texas and to drive the car back home. When you show up in the service department, with an appointment, they will have no opinion of you one way or the other, and the sales staff will have long forgotten that you exist. That's the way you want it.
I don't disagree with you at all - we really want this to be our servicing dealer going forward, so it's not a bridge we want to burn. We want to cultivate a friendly relationship with them. The bummer isn't the time to fly to Texas and drive back, it's that by the time you add flight cost, gas, and the value of the 700+ miles put on the car to get it home, the cost to get the car delivered to my driveway is at least $600 that really shouldn't have to be spent.

In the end, what I'll end up doing is whichever course of action produces the best combination of positive dealer sentiment + lowest out-of-pocket cost. On principle, bobert may be right that the delivery should be gratis as a courtesy, but if reality and principle don't align then I'll take emotion out of it and just aim for the best combination of happy dealers + full wallet.

Thanks guys, at first I thought this thread would be dead and/or deleted when I realized my answer was a Google search away, but now that we've thrown out ideas and opinions I see it more clearly and how I'd handle it with and without emotion in the equation.
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      03-21-2018, 02:32 AM   #13
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The general manager at BMW North Scottsdale hates euro deliveries and almost refuses to participate in the program. There are some great sales people at that store with a tremendous deal of enthusiasm for the BMW brand but the constraints of the work environment at that store make it a very difficult place to do business sometimes and very easy other times - I happen to have some inner knowledge of the situation there! The courtesy delivery charge a year or so ago was $500; $1000 seems like a lot.

I will say the service department is excellent Darrin Shadle is my preferred service advisor; but service at the Chapman store on Camelback with either Patrick or Timothy is great as well.
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      03-21-2018, 08:59 AM   #14
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The general manager at BMW North Scottsdale hates euro deliveries and almost refuses to participate in the program. There are some great sales people at that store with a tremendous deal of enthusiasm for the BMW brand but the constraints of the work environment at that store make it a very difficult place to do business sometimes and very easy other times - I happen to have some inner knowledge of the situation there! The courtesy delivery charge a year or so ago was $500; $1000 seems like a lot.

I will say the service department is excellent Darrin Shadle is my preferred service advisor; but service at the Chapman store on Camelback with either Patrick or Timothy is great as well.
That's good info, thanks Ty. Always good to have a name to ask for and to start an introduction with "I've heard great things about you..."
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      03-21-2018, 09:30 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afwares View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobert View Post
Ok, so one other dealer is within reasonable service range - you can tell the requested dealer you'll take your service business to that one (i.e., 'lie' ) if they won't do courtesy delivery for free - as you correctly point out, there is pretty much zero effort required on their part - they only have to allow the truck driver to unload & park it on their lot, accept a piece of paper, and secure your key fob. That's it - feel free to point that out. (It won't come with white sheeting on it since it's an ED car.) Asking for a fee for courtesy delivery is offensive.
So when I assume that I'm requesting a minimum-effort delivery, I'm not being naive or underestimating the task. It really is that simple - they really aren't doing very much and I'm not being unreasonable thinking that years of maintenance/service in exchange for this small amount of work is win-win for both of us. Thanks bobert, this info sort of gives me peace of mind that I'm not out of line, and that I'm not making an unfair proposition to this dealer. I want to be fair, but it feels like paying for delivery in this particular situation isn't really fair.
I purchased my M2 from a dealership in Florida and took delivery of it in NY. The dealership that provided the courtesy delivery did far more work than the selling dealership and they didn't charge me a dime. The order was placed over the phone and my car was shipped from Germany directly to NY. The FL dealership mailed the selling documents to the NY dealership, where I signed them and left with my car.

So basically the NY dealership had to prep the car for delivery, have a sales person (who wasn't getting the commission) sit down with me and sign the documents, go over the features of the car, fill the gas, and send me on my way. Honestly, I would've been okay paying a fee in this situation.

Since you're doing an ED, your local dealership probably doesn't have to do much as you already mentioned. In that case a $1000 is kinda ridiculous. It may cost less just to have it shipped from TX to your home.
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      03-21-2018, 10:14 AM   #16
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I’ve always found that starting at the top in a situation like this pays off. First, there’s the issue that the final dealer to deliver a vehicle faces some liability in a situation like this - e.g., if there’s a defect in the car and you get hurt when a wheel falls off because they didn’t inspect it. Second, once the dealer where you bought the car sends it, he has no control over what happens to it. And third, the PDI at the delivering dealer is more than a peel and wash - it also includes fluid and mechanical checks.

So, some sort of fee is due the final dealer for work performed - and, perhaps, your piece of mind. Go to the service manager and ask him how many hours it takes to do the non-cosmetic portion of the PDI on the car. Use their shop rate to come up with the value of the service - $200 for a couple of hours?

Then go to the general manager (not the sales manager) of the final dealer, explain the situation and tell him that even though they rejected the opportunity to work with you on the original deal that you’d still like to develop a working relationship with them. Offer him $500 or whatever you think is fair - but still less than your potential travel or shipping expenses. The general manager is the bottom-line guy at the dealership, and in my experience he’ll always go for the money - even if it’s only a profit of a few hundred bucks.

For the record, I don’t know anyone who’s gotten a free courtesy delivery - obviously it happens - but $1,000 is absurd. And adding another trucking company into the mix is just asking for trouble, unless it’s one of the premium (and pricey) car movers like Reliable. Three years ago, I refused delivery of a car that got so beat up in transit that more than half the car needed to be repaired and repainted. That wasn’t fun. So, IMHO, if the local dealer doesn’t want to play fair, picking up the car in Texas yourself keeps you in control and is the best option - even though a road trip is a lousy way to break in a car.
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      03-21-2018, 11:01 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champignon View Post
Appreciate the sentiment, but really, life is too short. There is no reason to transfer your animosity with the sales dept. onto the service dept. My experience with dealers is that there is almost zero connection between their sales and service staffs. You want the service staff to go to bat for you if you have an issue, not to be remembering unpleasantness carrying over from your sales experience.

To the OP, the way to do this is to take a short flight to Texas and to drive the car back home. When you show up in the service department, with an appointment, they will have no opinion of you one way or the other, and the sales staff will have long forgotten that you exist. That's the way you want it.
You're making incorrect assumptions & missing the point - I'm not saying I would actually hold it against the service dept nor that I wouldn't actually take my car there for service - I'm just suggesting that I'd use this as leverage in a conversation with the manager in order to get them to drop the courtesy delivery fee demand, which in my opinion is unreasonable.
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      03-21-2018, 11:21 AM   #18
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I don't disagree with you at all - we really want this to be our servicing dealer going forward, so it's not a bridge we want to burn. We want to cultivate a friendly relationship with them. The bummer isn't the time to fly to Texas and drive back, it's that by the time you add flight cost, gas, and the value of the 700+ miles put on the car to get it home, the cost to get the car delivered to my driveway is at least $600 that really shouldn't have to be spent.

In the end, what I'll end up doing is whichever course of action produces the best combination of positive dealer sentiment + lowest out-of-pocket cost. On principle, bobert may be right that the delivery should be gratis as a courtesy, but if reality and principle don't align then I'll take emotion out of it and just aim for the best combination of happy dealers + full wallet.

Thanks guys, at first I thought this thread would be dead and/or deleted when I realized my answer was a Google search away, but now that we've thrown out ideas and opinions I see it more clearly and how I'd handle it with and without emotion in the equation.
I have to agree with 'champ' in that there's almost no connection between the sales and service staffs; along those lines, I think the concept of "dealer relationship", "dealer sentiment", "happy dealer" & "burning bridges" with a dealer are all bunk - it's a company and you deal with individuals who don't have collective emotions or opinions.

Just suggesting you talk to the mgr and have a conversation and politely but firmly use my suggestion as leverage in order to get them to drop the unreasonable fee request.

If that doesn't work, I agree it'd be better to spend $600 or so (up to $1000 ) to fly over and drive it back - you may just end up enjoying the drive & I wouldn't give them a dime for merely accepting delivery of your car and putting a piece of paper and your key fob in a drawer. But if this is the place you want to go for service, then I would still take it there! The service folks have nothing to do with some tool asking for a grand for doing nothing.
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      03-21-2018, 01:04 PM   #19
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Ship the car from your dealer if you don’t want to fly/drive it home.

Making an offer to negotiate with the sales person on cost of courtesy delivery simply won’t work - they’re giving you the $1000 number that’s been dictated by their management already.

Dina Gifford at Angels Moving Autos is a great transport broker.
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      03-21-2018, 01:21 PM   #20
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Some people enjoy negotiating, in fact they would negotiate with the guy at the counter at McDonalds if the option was available.

Some people are really good at negotiating, and others are pushovers. I am personally good at it when the stakes are real/high, and horrid at it when it is for relatively small or trivial sums. I also personally do not like hassles, as I find that life provides enough hassles without my seeking out any additional ones.

If I was buying or selling or leasing a commercial property, something I actually do where the stakes can be high, I can be focused on negotiations, stick to my guns, and get what I want most of the time. I will walk away and /or tell the other party to go shove it if need be, something I have done in the past and will do in the future.

What I can't do well, or maybe choose not to do at all, is to negotiate over smallish sums of money with people whose good graces I might need a few months or a year or two later. In those situations I just try to avoid the conflict and take the path of least resistance.

Generally, this strategy works for me :-)
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      03-29-2018, 11:32 PM   #21
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Any luck w/this?
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2018 M2: BSM, Exec, 6MT (ED on 10/5/17, re-delivery on 11/30/17) My BSM M2 European Delivery Story
2013 335i M-Sport sedan: BSM, 403M wheels, walnut trim, 6MT (gone)
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      03-30-2018, 10:09 AM   #22
M2bean
KELLY
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Drives: 2018 LBB M2, MG Metallic 228i
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Cave Creek, Arizona

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobert View Post
Any luck w/this?
yes, also wondering?
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