BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > Dinantronics Sport, Fabspeed Catted DP

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-18-2017, 02:33 PM   #155
bi0hazard
Second Lieutenant
bi0hazard's Avatar
132
Rep
229
Posts

Drives: '17 m2
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM2-85 View Post
My car pulls absolutely nothing up top. Goes to redline. Like I said it took a good while for things to adapt and for it to really pull hard to redline. The torque was instant.


I guess I will have to dyno my car soon....
YES PLEASE.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2017, 12:10 AM   #156
SeanWRT
Colonel
SeanWRT's Avatar
3179
Rep
2,577
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 & F87 M2
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Shanghai

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
I don't know how many people still like putting +4psi throughout the band to an already close to maxed out n55 tune from factory. The sport tuner is very much designed for low factory boost n20 n55 applications. Using it on m2 will set boost target to 19psi, which is even harder than the jb4 race gas map (17psi) would do to m235 (think what kind of gas are you using?) It's f*kin suicidal running it long term. In addition, it tricks only MAP and TMAP and leave fuel mixture and timing behind, a very premature way of making power.

If you really have to use TMAP based piggyback, I would suggest dialing it back to +2 (still 17psi additive target for you to run on), if you don't want your n55 detonate at mid and die on top end.
Sean, in your opinion, is IAT, fueling, or timing the primary concern with running the Dinan Sport tuner in the Race setting? Would a setup that includes the Dinan Sport tuner, the Fabspeed catted DP, and a Dinan intercooler be reletively "safe" for long term use or is it still falling short by not addressing fuel and timing adequately?
IAT is the primary concern in this case, it instantly pulls the timing and lose you a lot of power. Therefore a bigger IC is a must with boosted up m2 in my opinion.

That being said, it's still very wrong to set +4 additive target at higher RPM whatever bolt-ons you have, unless a bigger turbo is put in place.

Stock turbo runs +4psi up top inefficiently. Bigger IC, richer mixture and retarded timing are working together to clean up the mess it makes, while a better idea is to avoid having the mess in the first place and instead find a boost target that balances well with stock turbo & cooling system to make efficient power, which seems not necessarily less (I thought it was, but it turned out not). Whatever that optimal target is, one thing for sure sport tuner or jb+ with +4 up top isn't it.
__________________
Lemania 2320
Appreciate 2
DrKevM52262.00
FSociety3810.00
      02-19-2017, 08:22 AM   #157
Dav3
Major
Dav3's Avatar
947
Rep
1,027
Posts

Drives: G87 M2/E89 35is/F21 M140i/GT4
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
IAT is the primary concern in this case, it instantly pulls the timing and lose you a lot of power. Therefore a bigger IC is a must with boosted up m2 in my opinion.

That being said, it's still very wrong to set +4 additive target at higher RPM whatever bolt-ons you have, unless a bigger turbo is put in place.

Stock turbo runs +4psi up top inefficiently. Bigger IC, richer mixture and retarded timing are working together to clean up the mess it makes, while a better idea is to avoid having the mess in the first place and instead find a boost target that balances well with stock turbo & cooling system to make efficient power, which seems not necessarily less (I thought it was, but it turned out not). Whatever that optimal target is, one thing for sure sport tuner or jb+ with +4 up top isn't it.
So long story short, according to you either Dinan Sport Tuner/JB+/Any 2 Sensor piggyback will provide inefficient power gains to the car that in the long-run will also have negative implications on the engine's lifespan?
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2017, 11:05 AM   #158
SeanWRT
Colonel
SeanWRT's Avatar
3179
Rep
2,577
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 & F87 M2
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Shanghai

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lop00 View Post
So long story short, according to you either Dinan Sport Tuner/JB+/Any 2 Sensor piggyback will provide inefficient power gains to the car that in the long-run will also have negative implications on the engine's lifespan?
Long answer short, yes.

1) In this case, IAT alone disqualify them.
2) Assuming IAT problem is solved with IC/Meth, you'll be then looking at a leaner AFR because there is no adjusting fueling to the increased boost. Pre cat o2 sensor will be constantly reporting lean and DME will be busy reacting by adjusting to STFT (short term fuel trim). Though I doubt a couple hard pulls is beyond DME's adjusting capability, a constantly adapting DME will make a less smooth power delivery. More importantly, DME is actually adjusting to a less optimal target (because it sees less boost than real), a richer mixture should've applied under higher boost to ensure less chance of detonation and lower EGT (Exhaust gas temperature).
3) Put leaner AFR aside for a while, you get to the messed up timing table, the very final stage where power output is dictated. With increased boost and leaner AFR, ignition timing should be retarded accordingly. That's a difficult mission for even a more sophisticated piggyback like jb4 and Dinantronics, let alone TMAP based ones which is incapable of touching it up at all. Granted, factory tune always leaves something on the table (which is why so many people get away with it with low factory boost N20/N55 application) and N55B30T0's factory tune has a richer AFR already thanks to higher boost target, you still are left with much less on the table with N55B30T0, something proven to be sensitive to or desperate for octane as a clear indication that ignition is close to its edge and engine is very much prone to detonation. Higher IAT and leaner fuel mixture just add to it. I believe that's what sometimes happen in mid-to-high rpm range and DME is reacting to it by pulling timing.

Ask any seasoned JB4 N55 guys who plays with TMAP based piggyback at 17psi or above. I bet he'd be laughing his ass off.

I've attach a data log with my friend's stock m2 running on jb4 map1 (sport tuner equivalence), who barely know what he is doing. It happened just today on highway where intercooler has plenty of flow at its disposal. Only it turns out, from a single run, IAT is rocketing and timing is falling to ground. You can't even tell if it's because of the IAT or detonation. And that's when most of time it doesn't even hit boost target, which is 19psi or so.
Attached Images
  
__________________
Lemania 2320
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2017, 10:33 PM   #159
joseyu
Private First Class
66
Rep
115
Posts

Drives: 20 M2C, 17 488GTB, 16 Cayman S
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Has anyone considered the fact that the winter blend gasoline with butane mixed in could also be causing the timing to be pulled? We are in the middle of winter, although it doesn't feel like it and the owner lives in Philly, so the car is probably running on winter blend. Butane has been known to cause issue and pull timing and I am wondering if the dynos showing high stock power were done during the summer or in a warmer climate area where they don't use winter blend. Just some food for thought.
Appreciate 1
DrKevM52262.00
      02-22-2017, 07:35 AM   #160
Chaslieb
Enlisted Member
14
Rep
36
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NY USA

iTrader: (0)

For the sake of completeness-

Since you are going stage 4 Dinan, if you install the piggyback nwhile waiting for the turbo to arrive and set it to stage 1 setting. A Dyno run at fab speed would tell whether the stage 1 actually makes more power than the sport tuner,
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2017, 08:07 AM   #161
switlikbob
Chuggin' Along
switlikbob's Avatar
United_States
333
Rep
584
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB ///M2
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Southern NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaslieb View Post
Since you are going stage 4 Dinan, if you install the piggyback nwhile waiting for the turbo to arrive and set it to stage 1 setting. A Dyno run at fab speed would tell whether the stage 1 actually makes more power than the sport tuner,
It certainly would be nice to have this settled, but those dyno runs aren't free.

Go fund me?
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2017, 09:13 AM   #162
Fabspeed Motorsport
Fabspeed Motorsport's Avatar
United_States
1004
Rep
1,653
Posts

Drives: BMW M235i
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Fort Washington, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaslieb View Post
Since you are going stage 4 Dinan, if you install the piggyback nwhile waiting for the turbo to arrive and set it to stage 1 setting. A Dyno run at fab speed would tell whether the stage 1 actually makes more power than the sport tuner,
Quote:
Originally Posted by switlikbob View Post
It certainly would be nice to have this settled, but those dyno runs aren't free.

Go fund me?
The dyno is always available here! Let me know and I would be happy to schedule anyone to come in and do some benchmark testing.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2017, 11:27 PM   #163
kevlee23
Private First Class
kevlee23's Avatar
72
Rep
150
Posts

Drives: 2008 e92 335xi, F87 M2 AW EXEC
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM2-85 View Post
After debating, searching, and researching this is the simple combo I went with.

Anyone who says the is engine is non responsive to tuning obviously has not driven a tuned M2.

Now the car needs more rubber without a doubt. In the cold, at 80mph, in 5th she side steps on full throttle. A freaking hoot!

$300 for the dinansport (always in race mode) and $1200 for the DP. There is a serious difference in power with this combo, and its very very smooth to boot.
What do you mean always in race mode? When I buy this tune will it elminate comfort and sport? Because I like dailiing the car in comfort mode
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2017, 06:49 AM   #164
RPM2-85
Second Lieutenant
271
Rep
208
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2 AW
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevlee23 View Post
What do you mean always in race mode? When I buy this tune will it elminate comfort and sport? Because I like dailiing the car in comfort mode
Everything works the same from comfort to sport +. Each mode in the tuner changes how high your targeted boost gets on full throttle.
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2017, 06:37 PM   #165
bi0hazard
Second Lieutenant
bi0hazard's Avatar
132
Rep
229
Posts

Drives: '17 m2
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Long answer short, yes.

1) In this case, IAT alone disqualify them.
2) Assuming IAT problem is solved with IC/Meth, you'll be then looking at a leaner AFR because there is no adjusting fueling to the increased boost. Pre cat o2 sensor will be constantly reporting lean and DME will be busy reacting by adjusting to STFT (short term fuel trim). Though I doubt a couple hard pulls is beyond DME's adjusting capability, a constantly adapting DME will make a less smooth power delivery. More importantly, DME is actually adjusting to a less optimal target (because it sees less boost than real), a richer mixture should've applied under higher boost to ensure less chance of detonation and lower EGT (Exhaust gas temperature).
3) Put leaner AFR aside for a while, you get to the messed up timing table, the very final stage where power output is dictated. With increased boost and leaner AFR, ignition timing should be retarded accordingly. That's a difficult mission for even a more sophisticated piggyback like jb4 and Dinantronics, let alone TMAP based ones which is incapable of touching it up at all. Granted, factory tune always leaves something on the table (which is why so many people get away with it with low factory boost N20/N55 application) and N55B30T0's factory tune has a richer AFR already thanks to higher boost target, you still are left with much less on the table with N55B30T0, something proven to be sensitive to or desperate for octane as a clear indication that ignition is close to its edge and engine is very much prone to detonation. Higher IAT and leaner fuel mixture just add to it. I believe that's what sometimes happen in mid-to-high rpm range and DME is reacting to it by pulling timing.

Ask any seasoned JB4 N55 guys who plays with TMAP based piggyback at 17psi or above. I bet he'd be laughing his ass off.

I've attach a data log with my friend's stock m2 running on jb4 map1 (sport tuner equivalence), who barely know what he is doing. It happened just today on highway where intercooler has plenty of flow at its disposal. Only it turns out, from a single run, IAT is rocketing and timing is falling to ground. You can't even tell if it's because of the IAT or detonation. And that's when most of time it doesn't even hit boost target, which is 19psi or so.

From Dinan website:


Unlike most of Dinan’s product offerings the DINANTRONICS Sport does not offer a factory matching warranty and instead possesses a limited 1 year product only warranty that protects the user against defects and workmanship. This is the case in order to retain a very attractive price point. Even though it may not hold the warranty Dinan is known for, the device has still been rigorously tested and has met all of Dinan’s lofty standards in safety. For example, since the DINANTRONICS Sport module installs on the boost sensor and not the manifold pressure sensor, ignition timing and air-fuel mixtures remain safe for worry free driving.
Appreciate 0
      02-24-2017, 04:21 PM   #166
Fabspeed Motorsport
Fabspeed Motorsport's Avatar
United_States
1004
Rep
1,653
Posts

Drives: BMW M235i
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Fort Washington, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bi0hazard View Post
From Dinan website:


Unlike most of Dinan’s product offerings the DINANTRONICS Sport does not offer a factory matching warranty and instead possesses a limited 1 year product only warranty that protects the user against defects and workmanship. This is the case in order to retain a very attractive price point. Even though it may not hold the warranty Dinan is known for, the device has still been rigorously tested and has met all of Dinan’s lofty standards in safety. For example, since the DINANTRONICS Sport module installs on the boost sensor and not the manifold pressure sensor, ignition timing and air-fuel mixtures remain safe for worry free driving.
That's good information!
Appreciate 0
      02-24-2017, 04:25 PM   #167
LBBDrew
Lieutenant
336
Rep
522
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

Fabspeed Motorsport Curious to know what your objective thoughts are here on the safety of the Sport tuner since you guys ran the dyno
Appreciate 1
      02-24-2017, 04:39 PM   #168
Fabspeed Motorsport
Fabspeed Motorsport's Avatar
United_States
1004
Rep
1,653
Posts

Drives: BMW M235i
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Fort Washington, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBBDrew View Post
Fabspeed Motorsport Curious to know what your objective thoughts are here on the safety of the Sport tuner since you guys ran the dyno
Dinan makes a great product. It has been tested and proven to work for years and time after time again. They have a ton of extensive research done with these cars to ensure safety and reliability. That being said, I will not argue that there are alternative products out there that are of high quality as well as competitively priced.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:13 PM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST