[murderspice]

Full disclosure, I own an LCI f87; and being that this is the OG M2 forum, I am going to be incredibly biased.

That said, comparing the specs vs my LCI alone, I find it hard to justify the nearly $70k price (w carbon and manual) for a car that is: nearly a foot longer (loss of "fun" factor); barely wider (like 2 cm); nearly 500 lbs heavier; has the same size gas tank; is uglier; has a worse interior; and worse colors -- for a mere .1 sec increase in 0-60 time.

Granted it gets the s58 and we have yet to see any lap times, but am I missing something here? Is the adaptive suspension worth what is effectively a barely marginal increase in performance?

Is the OG/LCI the best M2 on the market for the money?

Biased answers only please.

[///393]

Max bias engaged…

Initially I thought I’d never own it because of looks. Seeing the actual car in Black Saphire Metalic that’s no longer the case. I really like it from most angles, and don’t hate it from the less pleasant ones.

The S58, carbon buckets, and carbon roof are all very appealing and I had a moment last night where I considered turning my 2017 F87 into a 2023 G87 but one thing stopped me.

The weight:

My manual, slicktop N55 M2 weighs roughly 3390 and a manual, carbon roof, carbon bucket G87 weighs 3790+

I use these cars as a dual duty daily and weekend track tool and just can’t live with 3790+ on track, lap times be damned. There is more to track driving than lap time.

The power/weight of this G87 is worse than a FBO BM3 N55 F87 so it’s impossible for me to justify. I’ll be putting my sheckles towards Recaros, more power via HPFP/TTE460, and my track tire budget.

[swampfox94]

The f87c has been a keeper for me. My initial plan was the pick up a g87 at LCI as a second car but I don't think I will. I'll probably move to a 911 or g80 depending on life. F87 will stay forever though. Reality is that I'll never be able to squeeze all the performance out of the s55 let alone the s58. I only track maybe 2-4 times a year so at this performance level give me the looks over that extra 10-20% performance

[Godfather2112]

I’m going to assume the ECU will also be locked with BMW hoping those that by the M2, later dump it for the M2C in 2024.

It’s not awful looking but I’d personally take an M2C over G87 M2. Maybe sell the factory seats and order the new seats through BMW

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by Godfather2112

I’m going to assume the ECU will also be locked with BMW hoping those that by the M2, later dump it for the M2C in 2024.

This is a good point. This means there will be no easy way to tune the new m2, correct? Isnt that usually the first thing ppl do for performance gains?

[Fabb]

S58 cf roof, and that interior you think it's worse?? Literally it's light years better than the crappy f87 interior. Imo 200 lbs more than M2c is more or less reasonable given the structural rigidity and interior upgrade.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by Fabb

S58 cf roof, and that interior you think it's worse?? Literally it's light years better than the crappy f87 interior. Imo 200 lbs more than M2c is more or less reasonable given the structural rigidity and interior upgrade.

Isnt it 200 kg? That like 450 lbs.

[Altra]

I really really wanted to like the g87 but man. BMW has lost the plot this generation exterior design wise. I am not falling in love like I did when I first saw the F87 on Topgear back in 2016.
I'm happy with my FBO OG M2 till the end of its days. Can slap a tune on it down the line if I get hungry for more power.
I prefer analog gauges over the digital one, I don't mind the giant screen as long as HVAC has their own dedicated controls but that doesn't appear to be the case here, so that sucks.
Yea, the F87 interior is dated, but it's technically modern enough for my needs, especially for a car where the driving experience is first and foremost.

[murderspice]

I just feel like you should be able to visually draw a direct line between the base car and the m version of every series; the idea being the m version is the beefed up version of the base car. The g87? Other than the hood, there is too much difference between them; almost like the g87 is a new car unto itself. Kinda goes against the whole idea of an m car.

[Fabb]

Originally Posted by murderspice

Isnt it 200 kg? That like 450 lbs.

3600 lbs for M2c, 3800lbs for g87 m2. It's about 200lbs diff

[DanG]

I am not a fan of the exterior of the G87. With a smaller back seat headroom and almost no performance gain I just cant see getting rid of my M2.

The decision is close to why trade an OG M2 for an M2C as a daily driver. Neither the M2C or the G87 will out perform an OG M2 on the street in stock form. Both are probably a better track car but that is not what I buy a car for.

It will be very interesting to see how the F87 values hold up.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by DanG

I am not a fan of the exterior of the G87. With a smaller back seat headroom and almost no performance gain I just cant see getting rid of my M2.

The decision is close to why trade an OG M2 for an M2C as a daily driver. Neither the M2C or the G87 will out perform an OG M2 on the street in stock form. Both are probably a better track car but that is not what I buy a car for.

It will be very interesting to see how the F87 values hold up.

I didnt mention why I still think the og is better than the comp, but you about summed it up. Even worse that a brand new car barely outperforms both.

[Beenz]

OP you have done a good job of summing up the issues with the G87 vs F87.
And an F87 CS solves the suspension and performance difference. Just sayin 😆

[akkando]

Originally Posted by murderspice

This is a good point. This means there will be no easy way to tune the new m2, correct? Isnt that usually the first thing ppl do for performance gains?

Probably a jb4 or similar piggyback will work to add boost but you're still at the mercy of the bmw power curve. If it's anything like the m2c s55 it will make peak power at 5000 rpm and then go flat to 6500 or 7000. Some people like that kind of curve but not me. Hopefully the curve is better on the g87 but I doubt it, the last m2c sold with the engine detune so why change?

[David.m]

Thing is the OG M2 only needs comparatively simple mods/improvements to fix the performance 'shortcomings'. I track but am not looking for those last few 10ths in lap times (or wouldn't have ordered 6MT), I more enjoy tight/twisty mountain roads.

My BM3 custom stage 2 gives me M2C stock power, any more really isn't useable on street. Ohlins R&T improved handling/compliance & most importantly fixed the rear bottoming out/violent rebound, F80 alloy/carbon brace (incl strut top re-enforcement rings) did improve steering/turn-in, Auto-Solutions SSK/CDV delete/Turner trans mounts is almost Porsche GT good and the sound of the N55 (catted DP) going hard in forests/mountains is seriously addictive

Most of the changes/'upgrades' the G87 brings don't get over the huge negative which is the added 200kg and where would you start trying to fix that anchor on performance

[TargaM2]

Nice that we even have a new ICE M2 to discuss in a world of EV garbage.
Whilst i likely won't be purchasing one as it doesn't appeal to me for several reasons ie; no dct, size/weight, dash, floating calipers, door handles, however I do think it looks quite good & with the right mods I'm sure it will look fantastic.

[///393]

At 200kg lighter it’s no longer the OG M2 and should instead be known colloquially as the LW M2.

[///MPhatic]

Performance, it seems, isn't everything.

I, for one, want to thank BMW for the bungle that is the G87, as it has turned the brilliant F87 into an instant classic.

[MooMooM2]

I don't even mind the new car, its different. I just watched a video by a designer and I think he said it right. BMW new car is more of product design vs car design, you look at it and it does not give any emotion like some cars do.

There are some things I really like about it, some I hate.

Like, wide in the front and back. Specially the front wheel arches, they look great. Engine is a beast, it will be fast, sounds better than current m2c. Red color is cool, will look best in black, rest of colors are not great. Should fit wider tires too. I actually think with some aftermarket choice parts it will look ok.

Dislike. Number 1 is the screen, that thing looks like an afterthought. It has a freaking kickstand, come on BMW. The bezel on it is also too big making it look outdated already. To me that is the biggest dislike by far.
Back brake is horrible on a car like this, tiny. Where is my proper handbrake? Back tailights hideous and the whole back is interesting, ok from some angles but REALLY bad from others. Front looks like its misisng something, will look fine with a nice lip.

And as far as weight, its not that much heavier than the comp, couple hundred pounds. Basically different btw comp and OG. I never driven an OG but people that have driven both have never said you can really feel the weight much. I think it being longer will have a bigger driving difference than the weight, it will probably be more like an M3/4 G which is a weapon but lacks the fun of the f87.

[ChiTownM]

Originally Posted by Beenz

OP you have done a good job of summing up the issues with the G87 vs F87.
And an F87 CS solves the suspension and performance difference. Just sayin 😆

Actually I have exactly the same bias, the CS addressed many "perceived" shortcomings that made me hold back on buying a M2. I do not dislike the new design, I bet it will look better in person than pics. Carbon roof is a win, Carbon seats are a big draw, the car has the latest technology which is also a positive. Manual, hell yeah! The car will sell like hot cakes. The size is debatable, some will prefer it, I bet it will be more stable than the F series, which can be a plus for most folks.

I kept my e92 and am pretty sure that the CS will also need to stay in the M car fleet after seeing the new one.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by wilson kop

At 200kg lighter it’s no longer the OG M2 and should instead be known colloquially as the LW M2.

I think people need to realize that the choices were always to either have F80 weight or a 4 cylinder FWD/AWD platform. For example, Audi and MB use their FWD chassis in this segment. The 2 series coupe is the only true RWD platform here and it’s brought down from the 3 series. So, your choices are a chopped 3 series with similar weight to keep S58 and RWD, or a 4 cyl 1 series UKL based car.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Beenz

OP you have done a good job of summing up the issues with the G87 vs F87.
And an F87 CS solves the suspension and performance difference. Just sayin ��

The CS won’t perform anywhere near the G87. Just look at how G82 performs compared to F82 CS. On paper the numbers might look similar but in reality the G destroys it. The traction control systems are completely new and higher sampling rate. The engine even more underrated. The Sachs EDC in F87 CS is old tech ca. 2014 carried from F80; the new dampers and controller are much better.

The ring time might look similar but once you put Cup 2 on the G87 vs PS4S it’s going to beat it by at least 10 if not 20 seconds.

I’m not going to say it’s a better car in all facets, but even the base G87 is going to be another level of performance than all F87s.