[eau_rouge]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

I studied German literature and German back in the days. Are you questioning me and my intentions? Probably not but just saying... I could be really questioning your English translation abilities then, fair enough.



And the fact you ordered a 6MT makes it a bit biased? . 6MT rules anytime or what? No problem, whatever floats your boat man.



Cheers
Robin

I am talking about the Sport Auto quote from the Supertest. The snippet you posted is a) from Auto Motor Sport (a more "family oriented" magazine focusing on "normal" cars) and b) not from a real test where they drove the car on the Nordschleife or Hockenheim.

I am not biased because of ordering the 6MT. I already said that the DCT is great and that I love it sometimes. But still, there are a few things that I don't like. I don't want to argue about what is better for everybody - I just wanted to give you my opinion. I can't stand people who say that the DCT is faster - yes, maybe in the straight line, but then you can buy an Audi and its even faster than a BMW. In every other situation, it depends on who is sitting behind the wheel. Everybody has their preferred way of driving - if I would be in the market for an M5, I wouldn't even consider the 6MT, same as for the 911 with PDK. But the M2 and the Cayman for example are cars, that I would always prefer with a 6MT.

I don't want to start a discussion about the better transmission - I just wanted to point out that Christian Gebhardt (Sport Auto Journalist, 24h racing driver) said that the 6MT would be the icing on the cake for the test car, but instead BMW delivered the car with DCT, like they always do (for other models where an automated tranny is avaialable), but this is fine for him as well.

[Robin_NL]

Well, fair enough, each to their own . I tracked/drifted my marvelous old 1M and this M2 car is someting else(also in a good way) My former M's (E46 and E90 M3) were 6MT, so I get what you're saying. 100%. But the new 6MT in the M2 has autoblip....

Originally Posted by eau_rouge

I I can't stand people who say that the DCT is faster - yes, maybe in the straight line, but then you can buy an Audi and its even faster than a BMW. In every other situation, it depends on who is sitting behind the wheel.

Well, I don't want to start a discussion either, but on track, 'a DCT' in any manner is 'faster', not depending on who is sitting behind the wheel. RS3 is faster in a straight line than M2 in many circumstances but that was not the point: DCT vs MT was(imho?)

Ask F1 teams about manual trannies or at least Ferrari/McLaren with their roadcars, or Porsche with GT3RS.

But I'm done arguing. Opinions and facts. 6MT feel and stuff is subjective and I love powerful cars with MTs in general don't get me wrong!
Enjoy your car. Sorry for the wait...

Cheers
Robin

[eau_rouge]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Well, fair enough, each to their own . I tracked/drifted my marvelous old 1M and this M2 car is someting else(also in a good way) My former M's (E46 and E90 M3) were 6MT, so I get what you're saying. 100%. But the new 6MT in the M2 has autoblip....



Well, I don't want to start a discussion either, but on track, 'a DCT' in any manner is 'faster', not depending on who is sitting behind the wheel. RS3 is faster in a straight line than M2 in many circumstances but that was not the point: DCT vs MT was(imho?)

Ask F1 teams about manual trannys or at least Ferrari/McLaren with their roadcars, or Porsche with GT3RS.

But I'm done arguing. Opinions and facts. 6MT feel and stuff is subjective(I love powerful cars with MTs in general don't get me wrong!)
Enjoy your car. Sorry for the wait...

Cheers
Robin

Of course they are faster, I know that. I am working for one of the biggest automotive/engine component suppliers in the world, so we do a lot of testing here. We are focusing on DCTs, PDKs and DSGs more and more in our development process. The MT is almost dead (specially after the new EU regulations...)

What I meant was the driver who is sitting behind the wheel - someone who has never tracked a car, will be not faster with the DCT, than someone with knowledge and a 6MT. That was all I wanted to say there. In regards to all the great racing drivers here (not you, but I already spotted them here and there)

The wait is not so painful. The M346 is still fun and the M135i as my daily is a great car for that purpose - so I think the time will fly!

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by eau_rouge

What I meant was the driver who is sitting behind the wheel - someone who has never tracked a car, will be not faster with the DCT, than someone with knowledge and a 6MT. That was all I wanted to say there. In regards to all the great racing drivers here (not you, but I already spotted them here and there)

Agreed...but Put the not so fast average Joe in the DCT car and he will be faster than himself in the manual car. And put the pro in the DCT car and he also will be faster than himself in the manual car...

Originally Posted by eau_rouge

The wait is not so painful. The M346 is still fun and the M135i as my daily is a great car for that purpose - so I think the time will fly!

I understand totally.

I had a nice 1M at my disposal so also an icon(but witrh more flaws than I wanted to mention when I had it, vs the M2, I seriously don't want to go back to 1M, yeah, for investment reasons, but as a sportscar it's been overrated a bit, also by me, hate to say it lol)

Cheers
Robin

[Romo]

Well, I have never tracked a car

I have little knowledge

I have a 6MT

So I must be the slowest M2 driver arround the uiniverse


But at least I`m driving one...............

[ilovewagons]

Can I just say, how fantastic it is we live in a world where a German and a Dutchman can argue over the semantic meaning of German text, in English, while confusing an Australian drinking Belgian beer and eating gnocci with Italian Gorgonzola. We are some lucky people right here. Now kiss and make up. Macht schnell!

[eau_rouge]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

Can I just say, how fantastic it is we live in a world where a German and a Dutchman can argue over the semantic meaning of German text, in English, while confusing an Australian drinking Belgian beer and eating gnocci with Italian Gorgonzola. We are some lucky people right here. Now kiss and make up. Macht schnell!

That is arguably the best post I've ever seen. I am still laughing my ass off

[Robin_NL]

EUROvision Songcontest a few weeks ago: Australia For The Win!




Cheers
Robin

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

Can I just say, how fantastic it is we live in a world where a German and a Dutchman can argue over the semantic meaning of German text, in English, while confusing an Australian drinking Belgian beer and eating gnocci with Italian Gorgonzola. We are some lucky people right here. Now kiss and make up. Macht schnell!

You're forgetting to add "The Slovenian Mistress" of some.

[Artemis]

Robin_NL versus eau_rouge discussing whether the M-DCT or 6MT suits best the M2.

IMHO, 6MT is the one who still has balls.

[Artemis]

Stats after 375 votes:

• 231 out of 375 = 61.60%: manual transmission;
• 144 out of 375 = 38.40%: M-DCT Drivelogic.

The breakdown keeps on hovering around 3/5 manual and 2/5 M-DCT.

[Verdi]

Mine is DCT (didn't spec it myself, was a "special" deal I got and couldn't choose) but I'm considering to order one with the 6MT instead. I just get more connected to the car and the driving if I'm on a manual. Who care's if I'm a bit slower if I have more fun? There are loads of faster cars around anyway so why don't get the car you will enjoy the most instead?

[ajvdh]

I didn't have much choice. Mine was an HEA car which was already specced with the DCT. It was a change for me. Until my brief dalliance with a 228i last year, every car I've owned since 1979 has been a manual. I still race a manual E36 M3. After owning the M2 for 6 weeks, if you offered to swap mine for a 6-speed, I'd turn you down, even if you kicked in the cash difference.

The DCT is fantastic. I'm almost never in auto-mode, except maybe when I'm trundling around a parking lot. 98% of the time, I'm the one choosing the gears, and I can always be in the right one. Yeah, so I'm not working a clutch pedal. Big whoop.

I took it to High Plains Raceway a couple of weeks ago. It's a delight. Coming into a corner, roll onto the brake, pull the left paddle a time or three, and you're ready to rocket out of the corner like your hair is on fire. Run out of revs as you're approaching the track-out point? No problem.

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Well, fair enough, each to their own . I tracked/drifted my marvelous old 1M and this M2 car is someting else(also in a good way) My former M's (E46 and E90 M3) were 6MT, so I get what you're saying. 100%. But the new 6MT in the M2 has autoblip....



Well, I don't want to start a discussion either, but on track, 'a DCT' in any manner is 'faster', not depending on who is sitting behind the wheel. RS3 is faster in a straight line than M2 in many circumstances but that was not the point: DCT vs MT was(imho?)

Ask F1 teams about manual trannies or at least Ferrari/McLaren with their roadcars, or Porsche with GT3RS.

But I'm done arguing. Opinions and facts. 6MT feel and stuff is subjective and I love powerful cars with MTs in general don't get me wrong!
Enjoy your car. Sorry for the wait...

Cheers
Robin

DCT is always faster on track and it is an awesome gearbox! Even so most M2 owners will never come on a track. I drive around 10 times a year on the Nurburgring and I know I will be slower with my manual M2 then with a DCT one. But I don't care....there will always be someone faster and I do it for the joy of driving there without restrictions. There are no prizes to win for being the fastest...my prize is the joy I feel when driving there!

There is a reason why Porsche will bring out a 991.2 GT3 with a manual gearbox...even if this means it is slower then the PDK GT3. Manual or DCT....get the gearbox that gives you the most joy and forget that one is faster then the other. The upcoming CS will also be faster then the current M2 DCT....so there will always be something faster

[jdarwin]

DCT for me. When I want to feel "old school", I'll take my 4-speed 2002 or 5-speed E30 out for a spin. For this car, I wanted all the advantages modern technology could provide. And, with DCT, you still can be "engaged" in the process. There just isn't a third pedal to push.

[MZWIE]

In my case DCT vs Manual had more to do with where I drive. The M2 is my DD, I live in Atlanta and travel the interstates every day. One day on any Atlanta interstate is enough to convince anyone to go for DCT.

Frankly, other than some fun factor I could not see any downside to the DCT. I've had my fill of manuals after 45 years with them.

[MGWally]

DCT all the way.. much faster. If you want a pure car, then get something NA w/ manual gearbox.

[Mint]

Originally Posted by michaeldorian

Just test drove a DCT M2. Had a 6MT E92 before. As far as doing what DCT is suppose to it it was pretty spot on. Banging through gears in manual mode up an on-ramp is pretty sweet. And the rev-match downshifts is music. I did feel a bit bored at times though. I wonder if that was just me being a MT guy and need time to live in this new world.

The thing with DCT was rad and super fun when you're driving like an agro-maniac. I'm just afraid when you're not it's boring.

Next up is looking for a 6MT M3/M4 to really compare boxes.

Those with 6MT - How are you liking the auto rev matching feature? Does it take away anything? Makes it better?

I love the rev-matching on my 6MT - as for others complain about the lack of engine braking. I race motorcycles, and most of us always tune to remove engine braking as much as possible. Brake with the brake pedal, not the motor - you don't want to loose momentum on downshifts at the track.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Franzino

DCT is always faster on track and it is an awesome gearbox! Even so most M2 owners will never come on a track. I drive around 10 times a year on the Nurburgring and I know I will be slower with my manual M2 then with a DCT one. But I don't care....there will always be someone faster and I do it for the joy of driving there without restrictions. There are no prizes to win for being the fastest...my prize is the joy I feel when driving there!

There is a reason why Porsche will bring out a 991.2 GT3 with a manual gearbox...even if this means it is slower then the PDK GT3. Manual or DCT....get the gearbox that gives you the most joy and forget that one is faster then the other. The upcoming CS will also be faster then the current M2 DCT....so there will always be something faster

DCT is always faster when comparing apples to apples. However that's not the case in the M2.

The M2 - DCT Has 5 gears and two overdrives.

The M2 -6MT Has 5 gears and one overdrive.

There's a one tenth advantage 0 to 60 for the DCT. If you look at the gear ratios you can see why the Dct is quicker at the low end of the range .. however ..Could there be parts of the powerband where the 6MT is quicker ? Especially with the additional 100 pounds or so of as tested weight (see Car and Driver weights of 3414 and 35xx for the manual and DCT respectively.,

as an example... the lack of M2 aero... and addl weight and different gearing.. means the M240 quicker in certain parts of the powerband..

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/a-b...ed-comparison/

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by Verdi

Mine is DCT (didn't spec it myself, was a "special" deal I got and couldn't choose) but I'm considering to order one with the 6MT instead. I just get more connected to the car and the driving if I'm on a manual. Who care's if I'm a bit slower if I have more fun? There are loads of faster cars around anyway so why don't get the car you will enjoy the most instead?

I still agree with myself. I fail to see how this can even be a debate. It's personal taste. I can't get a feeling for the DCT to save my life. I'm constantly looking at the revs to know when to upshift. And when downshifting I don't really know which gear I'm in and to which gear I need to go. Do I downshift 2 times? 3 times? Who knows, I don't get a feeling for it. I really did try. For weeks I drove it in manual mode ALL the time. I got so exhausted by it. Took my full concentration to do it.

When driving a manual I know instinctively what to do. What gear to choose when and where.

I do understand that most guys do get a feeling for the DCT in manual mode and can enjoy it just like the 6MT. Or even more.

But it isn't a debate. Each to his own taste.

ps. I will finally get my 6MT M2 in a couple of weeks.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Verdi

I still agree with myself. I fail to see how this can even be a debate. It's personal taste. I can't get a feeling for the DCT to save my life. I'm constantly looking at the revs to know when to upshift. And when downshifting I don't really know which gear I'm in and to which gear I need to go. Do I downshift 2 times? 3 times? Who knows, I don't get a feeling for it. I really did try. For weeks I drove it in manual mode ALL the time. I got so exhausted by it. Took my full concentration to do it.
When driving a manual I know instinctively what to do. What gear to choose when and where.
I do understand that most guys do get a feeling for the DCT in manual mode and can enjoy it just like the 6MT. Or even more.
But it isn't a debate. Each to his own taste.
ps. I will finally get my 6MT M2 in a couple of weeks.

Let us say that it's a joy for the senses, including both hands and feet dancing around. The driver's seat as a workplace, rather than as your couch behind a switchboard. Push and pull, twist and shove, rather than 'click'. That visceral experience of more mechanics than electronics at play + you're in control.

Feel free to call me 'old fashioned' or 'oldskool': that diagonal movement to shift from 2nd to 3rd and back all the time through the twisties, physically using force to push the stick at arms' length away from you, and pulling it back towards you bending your arm (triggering the rev-match howl - yeah, I learned to accept it - when driving in any other mode than DSC OFF), both feet at work, climb a little further in those revs or not, that feeling of your right hand on the stick allowing you to instinctively (or more accurate: on the basis of your experience with the car) know exactly what gear you're in, etc. Priceless.

[RAM_F30_F87]

Stats after 375 votes:
231 out of 375 = 61.60%: manual transmission;
144 out of 375 = 38.40%: M-DCT Drivelogic.

How about adding a sub-survey asking how many of the people who chose the DCT did so because they don't know how to drive a manual? I know the DCT is slightly faster, but if you're not tracking the car, as a daily driver it comes down to who do you want in control, the DCT transmission logic or the driver? My personal choice has been a manual on every car I've owned since 1981 (I don't track).