[marcva]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I am not defining luxury, I am simply opting to use what has been established by leading trusted sources for vehicle segmentation, just as the automakers do (you may even have heard this specifically referred to in some car commercials and the like). For example:

https://www.edmunds.com/luxury/



Speaking of $50k, do you know what BMW does offer at that asking price? They actually have two hatchbacks - both the sexy 440i Gran Coupe and the not-so-stunning 340i GT. So that’s two 300hp+ BMW hatchbacks that you can buy today if you desire. Audi offers a similar product - the S5 Sportback. These types of vehicles demonstrate clearly where buyer trends are for $50k luxury hatchback in the US. These aren't very compact, unfortunately, and they also aren't necessarily as practical as the traditional two-box hatchback. But people want them anyway. We may not like it, but that's the nature of the beast.

The 4 GC is hardly a hatch in the traditional 2 box sense. It's a sleek sedan with a practical oversized trunklid.

Americans may like the 4 series and A5, but they also buy a lot of Golfs, Civics, jettas, corollas, and the numbers for the A3 and CLA have been posted before. BMW is just not interested in chasing the small car, "lower" end of the market in the US. It's too easy to make money selling trucks.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by afwares

If you don't work in manual labor and you shower more than 3x per week, you're engaging in marketing BS (excepting unfortunate victims of Trimethylaminuria). And if while in that shower you shampoo, rinse, and then you actually do repeat...they got you again.

Good luck in convincing your significant other.

[bobert]

Originally Posted by afwares

If you're wearing a t-shirt that costs more than $5, you've been victimized by marketing BS.

By no coincidence, the worst t-shirt victimization I've ever encountered occurred at the BMW Welt gift shop where, even after the 10 EURO discount was applied, I paid far more for that damn M t-shirt than any other t-shirt that came before it.

Then I got home and discovered that it can't go in the dryer.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

BMW should take note of this.
Most of us want a pure fun driving car in an M, not some bloated, over-sized boat like the M3/4 have become. (I did an Autocross day in an M4 and came away thinking "it's nice and all, but it's way too big and bloated-feeling").

M5/6 is its own niche for luxury sport sedan and GT car, but for daily fun, M2 is the best car BMW makes right now.

But keep the 4 door for the bigger cars- M2 doesn't need them.

+1 the 4 door BMW's were on the showroom. Appears a few missed that or did not realize they bought a 2 door driving sports coupe. Next time get 4 doors or a cross-over.

Porsche has it right. Need 2 more doors - do not buy a 911 or Cayman.

You bought a sportscar/coupe - dont like it sell or trade. Simple all this is.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by marcva

Americans may like the 4 series and A5, but they also buy a lot of Golfs, Civics, jettas, corollas, and the numbers for the A3 and CLA have been posted before. BMW is just not interested in chasing the small car, "lower" end of the market in the US. It's too easy to make money selling trucks.

As I mentioned in earlier posts in this thread, BMW actually is finally getting into this market with the upcoming 2 Series Gran Coupe. Like the Audi A3 Sedan and Mercedes CLA that came before it, and the new Mercedes A Class sedan coming next year, this vehicle has been designed with the US market in mind.

The downside is that it will not borrow the RWD platform used for the 2 Series Coupe and Convertible (including the next generation G4x which should move to CLAR). Instead just like the competitors’ products listed above, it will be built on a FWD platform (with available Haldex AWD, standard on the M Performance model) and use transverse four cylinder (and three cylinder) engines. This is the UKL platform that is shared with MINI, the X1, X2, 2 Series AT/GT, 1 Series Sedan, and the upcoming third generation 1 Series hatchbacks (the latter three not sold in the US).

Better late than never? We shall see.

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Good luck in convincing your significant other.

We just treat shower day like a national holiday. We have 6 or 7 of those days per year, we throw confetti at each other, have some Chinese food delivered, they are very exciting!

Originally Posted by bobert

By no coincidence, the worst t-shirt victimization I've ever encountered occurred at the BMW Welt gift shop where, even after the 10 EURO discount was applied, I paid far more for that damn M t-shirt than any other t-shirt that came before it.

Then I got home and discovered that it can't go in the dryer.

Hey bobert, if you didn't purchase a real M division clothes dryer, with proper M division high-performance turbo-centripetal drum, intercooled heating elements and blue-stitched leather-wrapped lint trap, that's your fault. If you bought the less-expensive M-Sport clothes dryer, with M label on the front and M striping on the door but without the high-performance exhaust duct, you're just a wannabe who got suckered by some marketing BS and now all you can do is hang your clothes in the back yard. Looser! (Extra 'o' inserted because it seems somewhere along the way it was announced that "loser" now has two 'o's and now if you're not a winner you're a looser and...well...Idiocracy).

[N & M]

Originally Posted by akkando

Hmmm includes M performance models. I wonder how much of M sales is M Performance models? Slapping a badge, a tune, and a steering wheel on a BMW seems to move units!

I am all for counting the genuine article but who’s to say that M performance cars shouldn’t be counted as M?

I have driven them and there is enough R & D and performance to justify that they be regarded as M products. As long as they go faster, stop and handle better; why can’t they be welcomed to the fold?

If anything, thier success may well be the factor that allows BMW to indulge the purists more and give us things like the M2.

[Aronis]

Originally Posted by afwares

If your wife asks you how she looks in that new dress and you tell her anything but the blatant truth, it's marketing BS. If you're wearing a t-shirt that costs more than $5, you've been victimized by marketing BS. If you don't work in manual labor and you shower more than 3x per week, you're engaging in marketing BS (excepting unfortunate victims of Trimethylaminuria). And if while in that shower you shampoo, rinse, and then you actually do repeat...they got you again.

Point is, all any of us are doing is giving ourselves and everyone else what we think is desired. One man's "marketing BS" is another man's market acuity.

ya, sure.......I know the "marketing BS" works very well, that is why they do it, D'ooh. But it is BS......

Mike

[akkando]

Originally Posted by N & M

I am all for counting the genuine article but who’s to say that M performance cars shouldn’t be counted as M?

I have driven them and there is enough R & D and performance to justify that they be regarded as M products. As long as they go faster, stop and handle better; why can’t they be welcomed to the fold?

If anything, thier success may well be the factor that allows BMW to indulge the purists more and give us things like the M2.

I don't know but the numbers would be more interesting if we had separate numbers for M Performance and M. I wasn't really making a judgement exactly, but I would want to know how many people are willing to pay the extra money and put up with the harsher ride of an M product over an M Perf product.

[mtoosexy]

Originally Posted by zkeeper

You want a "daddy's soccer car" with four doors, then there is the 3 series and if you have extra cash for proper speed, then there is the fine M3. It's just very nice, at least now, that there is a fine 2 door coupe in our M2.

Believe me, it's not about the cash! I have a line on a new Pcar GT3(manual of course). I have driven the M3, I've had my kid's car seats in the back...it does the "soccer dad" thing very well. My kids are barely old enough for soccer btw... IF that's what i wanted, i would already have it :
it's too big of a car for me, i already have a 4door "soccer dad-sport sedan" that is too big.
I have an allocation/reserved spot for an M2,this model or the next, and I'm quite excited about it. But i think the perfect car for MEwould be the M2 in its current size but with 4 doors. I don't need to worry about large people in the back seats for another 8-10 years, but man would the 4 doors be nice. I would have bought the RS3 if it were RWD & Manual but that's asking way too much of the guys at Quattro.
is not having a GC M2 a deal breaker? No, i love the 2door as well!

[mtoosexy]

Originally Posted by Game

Uhhhh nope.

uhhhh...? I would have the blue in manual, the wife would have the silver in DCT.
I like this rendering the most.

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by Aronis

ya, sure.......I know the "marketing BS" works very well, that is why they do it, D'ooh. But it is BS......

Mike

And I don't dismiss your frustration either. While we may not get invited into the boardrooms or product planning sessions at these companies, to tell them what we want, we do still get a vote with our wallets. It may not be much of a vote, but it counts and it all adds up. It's like we told the Ford rep at the auto show, we love the style of the new GT but until Ford can figure out how to properly align body panels and make the Mustang fit together like it wasn't built by blind mice, we were buying something else. I guess at least with BMW and Audi and their M-sport and S-line trims, it's "innocent" in that nobody gets hurt.

Unlike the damage caused by the "Part of a complete and balanced breakfast!" marketing bullshit fed to families by the breakfast cereal producers, along with some help from the USDA and their deadly food pyramid. It may take generations to overcome the obesity epidemic we now see in the USA. Now THAT is some damaging marketing BS.

[kablammo]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Would have been even stronger with an M2 sedan. Morons.

Absolutely 100% agree with you.

[Powaup]

Yea so if these things could now start depreciating that would be great.

Wats numbers on M3/4 for total sales like?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Powaup

Yea so if these things could now start depreciating that would be great.

Wats numbers on M3/4 for total sales like?

There was an article here on bimmerpost indicating 68,000 or so about a half a year ago so I'm sure they are headed for well over 6 figures.

M3/M4 to Get Steel Driveshafts Beginning Nov. 2017. Sales top 68,000 to date. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1411862

[marcva]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

As I mentioned in earlier posts in this thread, BMW actually is finally getting into this market with the upcoming 2 Series Gran Coupe. Like the Audi A3 Sedan and Mercedes CLA that came before it, and the new Mercedes A Class sedan coming next year, this vehicle has been designed with the US market in mind.

... Instead just like the competitors’ products listed above, it will be built on a FWD platform (with available Haldex AWD, standard on the M Performance model) and use transverse four cylinder (and three cylinder) engines.

Better late than never? We shall see.

So repairs will be as straightforward as they are on the Coopers I've heard legends about clutch changes....Will the AWD drive have the same rear bias potential as the current M5? How much will this end up weighing? Power to weight should be interesting.

Yes, we shall see...In the meantime, I'm going to Zaino my E36 4-door again since the weather here is warm.

[marcva]

Originally Posted by mtoosexy

uhhhh...? I would have the blue in manual, the wife would have the silver in DCT.
I like this rendering the most.
[PICTURE]

Fashion Grey Manual please (Yes, I'll pay Ind or wrap it).

[rainfall]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Would have been even stronger with an M2 sedan. Morons.

I once advocated for the 2 series having 4 doors, but I think having the 2 extra doors is a slippery slope. Customers will eventually want more legroom and headroom on the back and will become another fat ass F30/80 style. Nah, not excited about having big ass cars.

Maybe they could release the M140i in the US, or even the 1M hatchback.

[18EM2]

Originally Posted by rainfall

I once advocated for the 2 series having 4 doors, but I think having the 2 extra doors is a slippery slope. Customers will eventually want more legroom and headroom on the back and will become another fat ass F30/80 style. Nah, not excited about having big ass cars.

Maybe they could release the M140i in the US, or even the 1M hatchback.

Yes. The M140i would be great to have here.

Could the absence of these cars be a result of BMW owning Mini and avoiding too much overlap per the marketing guys at Mini?

[kablammo]

Originally Posted by Powaup

Yea so if these things could now start depreciating that would be great.

Wats numbers on M3/4 for total sales like?

F8x m3/4s are flooding the market. No less than 50 for sale across wholesale channels. Buyers market for sure.

[mtoosexy]

Originally Posted by kablammo

F8x m3/4s are flooding the market. No less than 50 for sale across wholesale channels. Buyers market for sure.

agree, my salesman has called me once a week offering the newest and greatest M3...

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by mtoosexy

agree, my salesman has called me once a week offering the newest and greatest M3...

Hahaha hey the new headlights are pretty sick lol even with crazy lease numbers I don't think I would go back to an f8x though