[kiysersosae]

So il be down on the Dyno on Wednesday. Last time I was there the car pulled 398bhp at It of 60deg C but heat soaked up to 75degC on the subsequent runs with the stock intercooler. It was also in 4th on DCT. So, this time I will do 1 run with the tuning box off and 2 runs with it on, all in 5th gear.

The car has:
Steinbauer tuning box (claimed 430bhp)
Forge intercooler (new)
ITG panel filter
Fabspeed 200cell DP
M-performancs Exhaust
Air freshener.

Let's see what it does.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Sub'd

[430409M2]

Originally Posted by kiysersosae

Air freshener.

+75hp

[NO_USER_]

Definitely interested in the air freshener gains.

[No Boost]

These European dynos that measure at the crank, are they really that dependable?

[MRufo]

Can't wait!

[kiysersosae]

Here is the graph.

2 runs, one with tune box on one with it off. Intercooler on first run was steady 40deg C second run was also same until the last 1000rpm and temp went to 60deg c, timing pulled and drop in power. So, across the range the power was about 35hp and torque was massive. On the road I think it would be different at the top end, probably gaining 15hp. Anyways I'm happy with stock and tune.

[SeanWRT]

I don't know where to start. But from your dyno result, it's the stock tune I'd pick if I have to. I'm shocked by the way your piggy box curve fall on its face from just 5000, heat soaked from just second run, and ambient temp cool as 18C.

Your car will be no faster, most likely slower, than on stock tune on WOT pull, that I guarantee you. And I am speaking from extensive experience in testing M2s on various setups in 100-200kph and 1/4 mile, using flash tune, JB4, Dinan box and stock tune. I can tell your car will do 10s flat in 100-200kph on a cool day (<80F), either on stock tune or piggybox you have. No question asked.

This is what's really holding you back in my opinion:
Forge intercooler cools fine, but flows poorly, compared to its competitions, which requires your turbo working harder, revving higher (where all the heats of intake air come from) to make same boost. There are far better intercoolers in the market to make a noticeable improvement from where you are. Do a search please. Some direct comparison you will find. They (ER, ATM, WT) kill Forge.

Also, consider using a proper flash tune, or a more sophisticated piggyback.

Originally Posted by kiysersosae

Here is the graph.

2 runs, one with tune box on one with it off. Intercooler on first run was steady 40deg C second run was also same until the last 1000rpm and temp went to 60deg c, timing pulled and drop in power. So, across the range the power was about 35hp and torque was massive. On the road I think it would be different at the top end, probably gaining 15hp. Anyways I'm happy with stock and tune.

[hoyasaxa]

Is that 390 lb/ft of stock TQ? Up from a claimed 369? Not bad, IMO.

[kiysersosae]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

I don't know where to start. But from your dyno result, it's the stock tune I'd pick if I have to. I'm shocked by the way your piggy box curve fall on its face from just 50, heat soaked from just second run, and ambient temp cool as 18C.

Your car will be no faster, most likely slower, than on stock tune on WOT pull, that I guarantee you. And I am speaking from extensive experience in testing M2s on various setups in 100-200kph and 1/4 mile, using flash tune, JB4, Dinan box and stock tune. I can tell your car will do 10s flat in 100-200kph on a cool day (<80F), either on stock tune or piggybox you have. No question asked.

This is what's really holding you back in my opinion:
Forge intercooler cools fine, but flows poorly, compared to its competitions, which requires your turbo working harder, revving higher (where all the heats of intake air come from) to make same boost. There are far better intercoolers in the market to make a noticeable improvement from where you are. Do a search please. Some direct comparison you will find. They (ER, ATM, WT) kill Forge.

Also, consider using a proper flash tune, or a more sophisticated piggyback.

Il fire the graph to Steinbauer and get their opinion on what is going on, I do recall the steinbauer units having a safety function built in that backdrop of the available power to stop you damaging the motor, maybe this is what happened. However, prior to 5700rpm (not 5000 as you said) the curve is great and torque fantastic, it's just the last bit. The stock run had the intercooler at 50 degrees C. The bonnet was closed for both runs.

A drop like that on the road I would feel? I haven't felt anything other than strong pulls to red line with the box and ie never seen Temps like that on the road, the highest being 35deg c. I have logged the runs and I will upload the short video showing AFR/timing./boost/iat/revs

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by kiysersosae

Il fire the graph to Steinbauer and get their opinion on what is going on, I do recall the steinbauer units having a safety function built in that backdrop of the available power to stop you damaging the motor, maybe this is what happened. However, prior to 5700rpm (not 5000 as you said) the curve is great and torque fantastic, it's just the last bit. The stock run had the intercooler at 50 degrees C. The bonnet was closed for both runs.

A drop like that on the road I would feel? I haven't felt anything other than strong pulls to red line with the box and ie never seen Temps like that on the road, the highest being 35deg c. I have logged the runs and I will upload the short video showing AFR/timing./boost/iat/revs

OBD based logging tool can read wrong with piggyback in place.

There is only JB4 you can use to log correctly, based on your setup.

[kiysersosae]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

OBD based logging tool can read wrong with piggyback in place.

There is only JB4 you can use to log correctly, based on your setup.

OK then I guess there is no point in uploading them.

Whatever the case, up until 5700 there is around 35-40 hp increase across the whole rev range bar the last isable 800rpm so I don't think the tuning box and intercooler can be as bad as you are making out.

I've not seen Dinian piggy back or jb and ecu flash wise evolve make that.

[DoZZa]

Interesting to see your results.

What does the fabspeed sound like with the MPE? And would you say there is a noticeable performance gain with the fabspeed too?

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by DoZZa

Interesting to see your results.

What does the fabspeed sound like with the MPE? And would you say there is a noticeable performance gain with the fabspeed too?

There is a noticeable gain with the 200 cell Fabspeed dp alone.

[DoZZa]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

There is a noticeable gain with the 200 cell Fabspeed dp alone.

How about the sound?

[Archie Bunker]

Originally Posted by DoZZa

Interesting to see your results.

What does the fabspeed sound like with the MPE? And would you say there is a noticeable performance gain with the fabspeed too?

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

Is that 390 lb/ft of stock TQ? Up from a claimed 369? Not bad, IMO.

These are directly related.

[hoyasaxa]

Originally Posted by Archie Bunker

These are directly related.

Doh!

[Ambrotos]

Originally Posted by DoZZa

Interesting to see your results.

What does the fabspeed sound like with the MPE? And would you say there is a noticeable performance gain with the fabspeed too?

Curious about this as well

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by kiysersosae

I've not seen Dinian piggy back or jb and ecu flash wise evolve make that.

See below a flash tune's before and after. Similar setup than yours. Cant say it's the prettiest plot but torque (600NM in peak = 444lb*ft) is stronger and holds better, which is normal for a flash tune, though I don't think torque surge early on is necessary.

TBH, feeling quicker doesn't mean you really are. Low end torque is kind of meaningless and is only the indication of turbo spool up time, which hasn't changed as it's the same turbo and same downpipe, power is only useable at upper rev range where you'll be at most of time on WOT.

Try do some 100-200 pulls. You'll see what I mean and 10s is what you'll get, either piggyback on or off. I've done these pulls countless times on multiple M2 on this setup.

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by DoZZa

How about the sound?

It creates a louder, throatier sound. The less restrictive cat allows the turbo to spool more freely which, in turn, creates more accessible power, especially down in the RPM range which lessens turbo lag.

A high-flow DP is a must for the M2. Ask anyone on this board with one and they'll agree.

[kiysersosae]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

See below a flash tune's before and after. Similar setup than yours. Cant say it's the prettiest plot but torque (600NM in peak = 444lb*ft) is stronger and holds better, which is normal for a flash tune, though I don't think torque surge early on is necessary.

TBH, feeling quicker doesn't mean you really are. Low end torque is kind of meaningless and is only the indication of turbo spool up time, which hasn't changed as it's the same turbo and same downpipe, power is only useable at upper rev range where you'll be at most of time on WOT.

Try do some 100-200 pulls. You'll see what I mean and 10s is what you'll get, either piggyback on or off. I've done these pulls countless times on multiple M2 on this setup.

What gear?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

I don't know where to start. But from your dyno result, it's the stock tune I'd pick if I have to. I'm shocked by the way your piggy box curve fall on its face from just 5000, heat soaked from just second run, and ambient temp cool as 18C.

Your car will be no faster, most likely slower, than on stock tune on WOT pull, that I guarantee you. And I am speaking from extensive experience in testing M2s on various setups in 100-200kph and 1/4 mile, using flash tune, JB4, Dinan box and stock tune. I can tell your car will do 10s flat in 100-200kph on a cool day (<80F), either on stock tune or piggybox you have. No question asked......

Power under the curve is key. His car is making significantly more power between 4000rpms and 6000rpms and in the range where the car would be spending a majority of it's time accelerating during a WOT run. Yes, power nose-dived after 6,000rpms, but as he noted, the car was quite heat soaked on that run. When the N55 gets hot, timing and boost are pulled and what's presented here is showing what many of us have already seen with other heat soaked N55's, especially the M2 N55 which does heat soak rather easily.

When you tune an N54, N55, S55, or any other sort of late model turbo BMW, the stock linear power curve changes and the motor's gain a substantial amount of power in the low and midrange, usually to the effect of peak power shifting from the lower 6,000s to the lower to mid 5,000s. It's quite common and is the result of pushing the turbo harder.

BMW goes to great lengths to make the turbo power delivery more like a naturally aspirated motor. When you tune it, you take away some of that intended linear design. It certainly does not mean the car is slower though. Gaining a substantial amount of power across the powerband makes for a much faster and quicker car.

I would bet if this car were redynoed and was not heat soaked, it would show more than stock from 6,000rpms to fuel cut.