[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by Chris The Manx

Thanks op but that argument on the mirrors falls down completely as the M3/4 also have vastly different (more so) bodies than their 3/4 series counterparts.

It's not worded correctly, I had read in a previous interview that the reason they aren't on the M2 is because they do not fit on the 2 series platform.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by ApexResistance

The M2 isn't going to be special

When were you able to drive it?

Originally Posted by ApexResistance

when the M235i is able to keep up with it in 99% of driving situations.

Statistically, mechanically, and undeniably false.

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

When were you able to drive it?



Statistically, mechanically, and undeniably false.

I understand you need to stand by your money....

Given most people who buy the M2, will never drive it on the track, yes the M235i will match it in 99% of driving conditions.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by ApexResistance

I understand you need to stand by your money....

And I understand you need to stand by your 135i JB4 N55.

It has absolutely nothing to do with that, your logic is just incoherent. I understand people don't like the car, and I don't care, but if you're going to make statements that the car simply 'isn't special' and that's why it's a failure, back it up and tell me why you didn't like your experience behind the wheel.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

When were you able to drive it?
Statistically, mechanically, and undeniably false.

Completely agreed. I wonder if he's driven an M235i at the track back-to-back with true M cars. The M235i has trouble keeping up with the X6 M, and bear in mind I'm talking about more than laptimes but also talking about how stable and agile a car is on track, how easy it is for a driver to adjust its attitude mid-corner, how hard you can stand on the brakes without upsetting the rear end, things like this.

I always laugh when anyone tries to compare an M model to a standard series-production BMW. There really is no comparison and no chance of capturing the overall driving experience with some simple mods or tweaks. This is coming from someone who is replacing an E92 M3 with a standard F30, I know what I'm giving up and it's the right choice for me at this time but the driving experience is on a completely different level. Even if the M2 was really "just the M3 suspension and brakes" that alone would make it worth its price, IMO.

[BGR]

Originally Posted by DVC

Good info - thanks for sharing this! I'd actually be interested in all the details if you don't mind sharing more.

A couple questions for you that maybe you can help with...

• Have they shared whether the M Performance coil over kit will come with progressive or linear springs?
• Will there be the capability to adjust the settings for each of drive modes (Normal, Sport, etc.) in the iDrive settings menus?
• Is there confirmation that the stock suspension is indeed passive (not adaptive as some have seen in marketing literature)?

Regarding your #5, as another poster noted already, I imagine you meant the M2 M Performance exhaust, right?

Thanks again!

I highly, HIGHLY doubt they will offer linear spring with their M Performance coilver kit. Because then they are tasked with offering different spring rates or have people complain about how stiff the ride is.

I love my 600# on my TCK in my M Coupe at the track, but driving on the street isn't exactly what I would call comfortable.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by ApexResistance

I understand you need to stand by your money....

Given most people who buy the M2, will never drive it on the track, yes the M235i will match it in 99% of driving conditions.

Ah, you've edited your statement, adding that bottom sentence. Should have made a new comment about it. So the evolution of the discussion makes sense and isn't anachronistic.

And hmm.

Well I guess a 435i M sport will match the M4 in 99% of driving conditions.

I guess a 335i M sport will match the M3 in 99% of driving conditions.

Again, that GOES WITH SAYING that I am referring to street driving, which you did not state.

Ya know, a vast majority of every BMW model don't track their cars.

That statement doesn't take anything away from the M2, M3, M4, M5, or M6.

The logical fallacies continue.

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by Remonster

Completely agreed. I wonder if he's driven an M235i at the track back-to-back with true M cars. The M235i has trouble keeping up with the X6 M, and bear in mind I'm talking about more than laptimes but also talking about how stable and agile a car is on track, how easy it is for a driver to adjust its attitude mid-corner, how hard you can stand on the brakes without upsetting the rear end, things like this.

I always laugh when anyone tries to compare an M model to a standard series-production BMW. There really is no comparison and no chance of capturing the overall driving experience with some simple mods or tweaks. This is coming from someone who is replacing an E92 M3 with a standard F30, I know what I'm giving up and it's the right choice for me at this time but the driving experience is on a completely different level. Even if the M2 was really "just the M3 suspension and brakes" that alone would make it worth its price, IMO.

Im not looking to compare the M2 with a standard bmw model, directly.

I have driven the E90/92 M3, F80 M3 and a 1M on the track. There really is no comparison to how they drive vs. a standard BMW. That's not my point.
my point is for 10K more than the base price of the M2, you can get a base Model F82 M4. Which will have a nicer interior, better seats, and better aesthetics. The M2 should have been priced the same as the loaded M235i, for a base price (+/- 1k) and should have the basic ///M stuff. Like ///M mirrors, MDM button, and different seats than the basic car. AT A MINIMUM. Your wonderful friends in the accounting department ruined the M2.

[MDIVISION]

What a BS answer for the mirrors

[bdaddylo]

Agree 100% - including the part about the S55! I'm happy that BMW spent the time and money enhancing the N55 to make it better for the M2 (something which they did not bother to do with the N54 for the 1M). I for one am not complaining about no "M mirrors" - or "M motor" for the M2.

MEH

The N54 internals are more stout than the N55's hence the need for BMW to use the S55's. The only change in the engine tweaking recipe is the upgraded intercooler. Hopefully, it's good enough to not need an aftermarket one.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by MR.

Or get a tuner to fix it for you... In the end it is just a setting in the code

MR

Coding ( AKA the digital screwdriver) for the win..

[SaMaster14]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

There is no such thing as an ///M mirror. Do all of the ///M vehicles share a design element that is consistent for all of them? I sure don't think so.

What the guys with their torches and pitchforks are mad about is that the M2 doesn't have bespoke mirrors, that are different than the "regular" 2 series. If we take a look at the way M cars are developed (aka, off the "regular" model), then you can see how many aspects of an M car are going to be the same as the base model. The mirrors of the M2 fall into this category.

Even the M3/4's engine is 75% the same as a "regular" N55 - and you don't hear anyone bitching about that. It's not a big deal, and is something that will provide the aftermarket community (BMW performance included I am sure) with many different options.

And since the overall formula was to emulate the development process of the 1M (max performance and ///M experience at the entry price level), then you have to understand why a shit-ton of time wasn't spent on the mirrors. BMW (thankfully) put time and effort (and $$$$) into the fucking suspension, brakes, handling, exhaust (better than the M3/4 by most accounts), etc, etc...

I actually went into my garage the other day and looked at the mirrors on my Cayman - I am not sure I had ever noticed them before...

I think once this car comes out, and people actually start driving it everyone is going to forget about the mirror and the roof and the 'hood bulge.'

Not to poop on the party, but I must say that I do find myself looking at my bespoke mirrors all the time while driving, especially with the windows down.

Also, the M3 engine is based off the N54, true twin turbo, no single turbo twin scroll. I think that makes a HUGE difference. I had a 335is before with the N54, and the LCI 335 with the N55 was a let down imo vs the true twin turbo...

[3M TAPE]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

It has an ECO mode? haha

Well.. my E90ZCP6MT has a start/stop function..

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by BigMacMeal

Well.. my E90ZCP6MT has a start/stop function..

Start/stop doesn't require you to put the car in Eco mode, which in the M235i, reduces the accelerator response. In the auto it also shifts early, holds the highest gear possible, and engages coasting- as well as activating start/stop.

[DS_BMW]

The body is so different they decided to give it no M mirrors? Lol That's a cop out!

[tc328]

All bullshit to me

[BGR]

I learned something fairly quickly... BMWs (and pretty much ANY car) are not meant to be track cars. They are street cars that are capable on the track (BMWs typically more so than other non-supercars). Even "sports cars" aren't great track cars because they have to be designed to be driven easily and comfortably on the street (at least nowadays).

To illustrate my point, here are lap times at my local track, different cars, different days, but the weather was all roughly equal. I took the average of my 5 fastest laps for the day and rounded it to the nearest full second. You can quickly see that just by adding suspension, braking, and seating components, the car became considerably quicker than the difference between the street version (3.0si) and "track" version (M Coupe).

The tradeoff is that the M Coupe is a little more uncomfortable to drive on the street.

[Janerz]

I don't understand why the M2 couldn't have its own BISPOKE mirrors? Why dues it have to have anything to do with the rest of the 2 series line up? Would it REALLY cost that much more to develop a mirror?!

[Spook410]

Mirrors - Yea. It was a lame response from BMW. They cheaped out.

Performance et al - Even if it were possible to take a M235 and apply the same mods to the suspension, diff, steering, and engine and then to have a crew of engineering professionals tune and test it to a higher performance standard, the price would be absolutely insane. How much fun a 235 or 240 will be compared to the M2 is certainly subjective with variables from driver to location, but that doesn't speak to how different the vehicles are going to be. Seems like in an M2 I'll be looking for opportunities to enjoy the car out in the hills rather than expecting a car to make crowded city streets something they aren't.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by Janerz

I don't understand why the M2 couldn't have its own BISPOKE mirrors? Why dues it have to have anything to do with the rest of the 2 series line up? Would it REALLY cost that much more to develop a mirror?!

short answer? Yes. Probably would have upped the base price a bit without having substantial returns on the specific model itself.

Not to mention the negative product in opportunity cost that may arise from the additional set of new mirrors causing slower production times for other cars that are produced in the same plant.

Yup, bespoke mirrors for the M2 could essentially raise the base price of the X1. It's really not that hard to understand if you take a look at manufacturing processes, legality issues, and logistical optimization.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by Janerz

I don't understand why the M2 couldn't have its own BISPOKE mirrors? Why dues it have to have anything to do with the rest of the 2 series line up? Would it REALLY cost that much more to develop a mirror?!

It's all about the dollars. Probably a million bucks to make and design bespoke mirrors, I'm not kidding.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

short answer? Yes. Probably would have upped the base price a bit without having substantial returns on the specific model itself.

Wrong answer. It's no, because the basic design already exists on other current M cars. That means 90 percent of development is done, son. It's cost-cutting, pure and simple.

Originally Posted by Adem1534

Not to mention the negative product in opportunity cost that may arise from the additional set of new mirrors causing slower production times for other cars that are produced in the same plant.

This made me laugh out loud -- at work, no less. So what do you think the S-derived engine components do? And the new bumpers and bodywork? Do you have any idea how manufacturing lines work in a large factory? Retool tweaks happen all the time. That's all that really had to happen to begin producing the M2 at Leipzig -- a task that, logistically, likely happened during the July model-year work break.

Originally Posted by Adem1534

Yup, bespoke mirrors for the M2 could essentially raise the base price of the X1. It's really not that hard to understand if you take a look at manufacturing processes, legality issues, and logistical optimization.

Wow. Your BS capability is immense. Props, sir. I'm sure the embossed M on the what are essentially stock 2-series seats lifted base prices, then. That had to have been the tradeoff: an embossing machine!