[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

Not true. The factory ECU records the car’s power output and BMW will void powertrain warranties when they see power numbers that are out of factory spec. A tune doesn’t throw a CEL either but they know it’s there through a variety of methods.

This is incorrect. My SA has it on authority from BMW that the sport cat's don't void any kind of warranty if they don't put the car outside the factory allowable parameters (no CEL, no issue). I literally have it in writing.

[carchrism5]

On the topic of downpipes, Fabspeed's downpipe does have a CEL free guarantee but do a little research on here as numerous have thrown CELs with them and Fabspeed requires you to jump through numerous hoops to get any warranty (numerous logs, multiple CEL readouts, etc). Fabspeed's warranty is 2 years and the cat is not EPA certified.

Active Autowerke has a CEL free downpipe with a GESi cat that is EPA certified. It is less expensive than the Fabspeed also and the cat has a 5 year warranty.

If looking for a CEL free downpipe I encourage you to search and do your own research on here as there are many threads about them.

I went with the AA one based on what I found.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by AlpinaFS

+1

As someone else pointed out, Guaranteed no CEL so warranties are never in danger. Sport CATs are without a doubt one of best mods for any car in terms of power and exhaust note gains. Fabspeed is the industry leader for a reason.

Just because there is no CEL doesn't mean warranty can't be denied.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

This is incorrect. My SA has it on authority from BMW that the sport cat's don't void any kind of warranty if they don't put the car outside the factory allowable parameters (no CEL, no issue). I literally have it in writing.

That’s a big if- because they do put the car outside of factory parameters. CELs are not the only method BMW has for measuring this. Unless what you have in writing says “we won’t deny warranty on engine repairs due to this downpipe,” I’m skeptical. And even if you do, if the person who wrote it has no authority to make such a decision- e.g. BMW legal- it’s not worth anything anyhow.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

That’s a big if- because they do put the car outside of factory parameters. CELs are not the only method BMW has for measuring this. Unless what you have in writing says “we won’t deny warranty on engine repairs due to this downpipe,” I’m skeptical. And even if you do, if the person who wrote it has no authority to make such a decision- e.g. BMW legal- it’s not worth anything anyhow.

It's not an "if" for me, as I have it in writing from my SA, who is a representative of BMW, so if there is an issue I can use that for leverage. Beyond that, you, and others are acting like if the car has any sort of issue whatsoever that any part of the warranty will be denied. That's not the way it works. Even if the car threw a CEL and had some issues, if it can't be directly traced back to the DP causing the issue then the warranty would pay. I have this in writing as well.

The takeaway here is that there are indeed very few related issues that could put on the owner with a catted DP that didn't throw a CEL even in the worst circumstances.

We can argue this until the end of days, but it'll make no difference. My SA told me straight that it won't be an issue, and that's my leverage.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

It's not an "if" for me, as I have it in writing from my SA, who is a representative of BMW, so if there is an issue I can use that for leverage. Beyond that, you, and others are acting like if the car has any sort of issue whatsoever that any part of the warranty will be denied. That's not the way it works. Even if the car threw a CEL and had some issues, if it can't be directly traced back to the DP causing the issue then the warranty would pay. I have this in writing as well.

The takeaway here is that there are indeed very few related issues that could put on the owner with a catted DP that didn't throw a CEL even in the worst circumstances.

We can argue this until the end of days, but it'll make no difference. My SA told me straight that it won't be an issue, and that's my leverage.

A down-pipe is the last thing I'd be worrying about

It's mostly about the relationship w your dealer

People seriously trip about it for no reason

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

It's not an "if" for me, as I have it in writing from my SA, who is a representative of BMW, so if there is an issue I can use that for leverage. Beyond that, you, and others are acting like if the car has any sort of issue whatsoever that any part of the warranty will be denied. That's not the way it works. Even if the car threw a CEL and had some issues, if it can't be directly traced back to the DP causing the issue then the warranty would pay. I have this in writing as well.

The takeaway here is that there are indeed very few related issues that could put on the owner with a catted DP that didn't throw a CEL even in the worst circumstances.

We can argue this until the end of days, but it'll make no difference. My SA told me straight that it won't be an issue, and that's my leverage.

Listen man, you can do whatever you feel comfortable with. But other people need to know the facts on this and the truth is that BMW in the last year or two has implemented direct connect systems that completely circumvent the service advisors. They do not have the power to look the other way on it anymore. The ECU is going to flag itself if it sees HP/TQ output that is out of spec, and they will deny the warranty automatically. Your letter from your SA may help your case in court- but I can assure you you’re going to spend more in legal fees than you do on a new engine.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

Listen man, you can do whatever you feel comfortable with. But other people need to know the facts on this and the truth is that BMW in the last year or two has implemented direct connect systems that completely circumvent the service advisors. They do not have the power to look the other way on it anymore. The ECU is going to flag itself if it sees HP/TQ output that is out of spec, and they will deny the warranty automatically. Your letter from your SA may help your case in court- but I can assure you you’re going to spend more in legal fees than you do on a new engine.

You're speaking out of turn, as if you know things you can't possibly know.

The burden of proof is on you.

Show me an instance where a catted downipipe didn't cause a CEL, but caused some sort of issue, and BMW denied a claim because of it. In fact, show me several.

If you find this information (and you won't because it's not there) I'll compare it to the thousands upon thousands of guys running catted downpipes without issue and make your case(s) literally lottery-rare, just like getting fined or going to jail for tampering with the smog system.

I understand that you're just trying to help guys out with what should be the facts, but in practice it just doesn't work that way.

That's the last I'll say on it.

And honestly, I wouldn't be arguing about it except that the Fabspeed catted DP has been one of the very best mods I have done to the car, if not the best. The car sounds so much better that there literally isn't even a need for an aftermarket exhaust. Myself, I didn't notice any power increase, but I didn't buy it for that anyway.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

You're speaking out of turn, as if you know things you can't possibly know.

The burden of proof is on you.

Show me an instance where a catted downipipe didn't cause a CEL, but caused some sort of issue, and BMW denied a claim because of it. In fact, show me several.

If you find this information (and you won't because it's not there) I'll compare it to the thousands upon thousands of guys running catted downpipes without issue and make your case(s) literally lottery-rare, just like getting fined or going to jail for tampering with the smog system.

I understand that you're just trying to help guys out with what should be the facts, but in practice it just doesn't work that way.

That's the last I'll say on it.

And honestly, I wouldn't be arguing about it except that the Fabspeed catted DP has been one of the very best mods I have done to the car, if not the best. The car sounds so much better that there literally isn't even a need for an aftermarket exhaust. Myself, I didn't notice any power increase, but I didn't buy it for that anyway.

The burden of proof is most certainly not on me. My solution- to leave the car stock- is a zero risk, zero cost solution. Yours is the one with potential for a $10,000 engine replacement loss due to a voided warranty. I would actually love to see what BMW gave you... if it’s that beneficial, it would be nice to share it with everyone.

I’ve tuned plenty of cars in the past- a guaranteed warranty killer- and I’ll tune this one too. But I do it with the full understanding of the potential ramifications and I certainly don’t advise people to take uninformed risks based on a piece of paper from a service advisor that- to be frank- has absolutely no actual clout at BMW. Half of these guys don’t even know the issues that are common knowledge on this forum.

I’m not here to say the risk is high that a sport cat causes any damage at all. What I am saying is that BMW won’t hesitate to blame it if something else goes wrong- simply because they can. The service advisors no longer have a say in this.

[AlpinaFS]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

The burden of proof is most certainly not on me. My solution- to leave the car stock- is a zero risk, zero cost solution. Yours is the one with potential for a $10,000 engine replacement loss due to a voided warranty. I would actually love to see what BMW gave you... if it’s that beneficial, it would be nice to share it with everyone.

I’ve tuned plenty of cars in the past- a guaranteed warranty killer- and I’ll tune this one too. But I do it with the full understanding of the potential ramifications and I certainly don’t advise people to take uninformed risks based on a piece of paper from a service advisor that- to be frank- has absolutely no actual clout at BMW. Half of these guys don’t even know the issues that are common knowledge on this forum.

I’m not here to say the risk is high that a sport cat causes any damage at all. What I am saying is that BMW won’t hesitate to blame it if something else goes wrong- simply because they can. The service advisors no longer have a say in this.

Everyone can have their own opinion. Not your car, not your problem. You don't need to rain on everyone else's parade just because you're too nervous to upgrade your car. There are hundreds of thousands of modded BMWs still under Warranty. Control what you can control and take a few deep breaths.

Fabspeed is the only company that guarantees no CEL. Call in and discuss it at length with any of them, some of which are BMW Licensed Mechanics, as long as you have a particularly stuck up SA, they won't bat an eye.

[Dasnub]

Black and white.

[JMon3y]

1. PPF
2. Ceramic Coating
3. M performance Exhaust
4. Black M2 trunk logo
5. Carbon fiber door sills

Those were my first mods.