[DRLane]

Originally Posted by F87source

Yup I agree, without CFD data my assumptions are absolutely meaningless and so are yours. Btw I said likely.

> Still implies better or best, so your saying the exact same thing.

Except they have the data. And yes the > was me being satirical.

I will say Spage makes pretty stuff though!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Except they have the data. And yes the > was me being satirical.

I will say Spage makes pretty stuff though!

That's great to hear! It's always good to have actual CFD tested parts designed for a specific chassis.

I was thinking more about their parts, and a few things concern me. The ability to move upwards might lose a problem on the m2c because the oil cooler is right there. If it moves up it'll crush the oil cooler and that's not good. If you have a metal protection under tray then the splitter can't move because the metal under tray stops it from moving up.

You also cannot cover up the center section because the oil cooler must breathe. That's always going to be an issue for the s55 engine, because you're going to exhaust a bunch of hot turbulent dirty air right down into the floor area and front splitter area (which also limits it's size).

Other than that it seems to be an excellent part for the m2c guys, nothing else to say.

[DrKevM5]

RKP Carbon Front Lip with Fall Line Polyethylene Splitter. FS Performance Engineering quick release splitter support rods mounted directly to chassis.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by F87source

That's great to hear! It's always good to have actual CFD tested parts designed for a specific chassis.

I was thinking more about their parts, and a few things concern me. The ability to move upwards might lose a problem on the m2c because the oil cooler is right there. If it moves up it'll crush the oil cooler and that's not good. If you have a metal protection under tray then the splitter can't move because the metal under tray stops it from moving up.

You also cannot cover up the center section because the oil cooler must breathe. That's always going to be an issue for the s55 engine, because you're going to exhaust a bunch of hot turbulent dirty air right down into the floor area and front splitter area (which also limits it's size).

Other than that it seems to be an excellent part for the m2c guys, nothing else to say.

Again, you seem to think you know a lot. If you’re serious about a solution, talk to folks that do. They can answer your questions. Your concerns are not novel.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Again, you seem to think you know a lot. If you’re serious about a solution, talk to folks that do. They can answer your questions. Your concerns are not novel.

I know a lot when it comes to the m2, and I have ideas of how the aero has to fit the chassis. But I'm speaking about a generic lip off the shelf lip not bespoke aero parts - addressing your comments about how they can easily just cover up the oil cooler opening. Now to have deflection means you have to space it from the chassis and run an air dam to compensate for the gap. Sure no problem, the only issue with this is that in order to cover the oil cooler opening is you'd have to determine if said 1.5" gap is enough to allow full flow out of the oil cooler without restrictions. To do this you'll need CFD and aero analysis making this non longer an off the shelf part.

Now speaking on a custom part side of things, if you do make it custom you either have to drop the splitter even lower or make a hump for the oil cooler to have more space. And if you want a diffuser in this area you have to lower it even further. So is it possible? Sure. Will be it be optimal because of that oil cooler? No.


If I were serious about getting actual aero my preference would be to to verus engineering or JFK consulting, and have my car 3d scanned and aero built for the ground up bespoke to my own car.

Og shark did something similar with a different aero company: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1862458&page=5

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by F87source

I know a lot when it comes to the m2, and I have ideas of how the aero has to fit the chassis. But I'm speaking about a generic lip off the shelf lip not bespoke aero parts - addressing your comments about how they can easily just cover up the oil cooler opening. Now to have deflection means you have to space it from the chassis and run an air dam to compensate for the gap. Sure no problem, the only issue with this is that in order to cover the oil cooler opening is you'd have to determine if said 1.5" gap is enough to allow full flow out of the oil cooler without restrictions. To do this you'll need CFD and aero analysis making this non longer an off the shelf part.

Now speaking on a custom part side of things, if you do make it custom you either have to drop the splitter even lower or make a hump for the oil cooler to have more space. And if you want a diffuser in this area you have to lower it even further. So is it possible? Sure. Will be it be optimal because of that oil cooler? No.


If I were serious about getting actual aero my preference would be to to verus engineering or JFK consulting, and have my car 3d scanned and aero built for the ground up bespoke to my own car.

Og shark did something similar with a different aero company: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1862458&page=5

It seems you understand the differences between M2 cooling system and M2C cooling. But no, it doesn’t appear you have a strong knowledge on aero platforms.

You’re correct, the Zebulon offering wasn’t off the shelf but result of 3D scans and their advanced CFD capabilities. Being able to create a CFD and one that’s actually useful are two very different capabilities.

That’s my point is, if this forum is interested in aero packages for M2 and or M2C I’d reach out and have some conversations with the dominant MS aero consultancies. Of which yes Eric at Verus is also strong, as is Ryan at Zebulon. These are far more sophisticated and winning shops than Spage.

I wouldn’t rely on “it’s the best” statements from random reviewers.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by DRLane

It seems you understand the differences between M2 cooling system and M2C cooling. But no, it doesn’t appear you have a strong knowledge on aero platforms.

You’re correct, the Zebulon offering wasn’t off the shelf but result of 3D scans and their advanced CFD capabilities. Being able to create a CFD and one that’s actually useful are two very different capabilities.

That’s my point is, if this forum is interested in aero packages for M2 and or M2C I’d reach out and have some conversations with the dominant MS aero consultancies. Of which yes Eric at Verus is also strong, as is Ryan at Zebulon. These are far more sophisticated and winning shops than Spage.

I wouldn’t rely on “it’s the best” statements from random reviewers.

I agree, and yet without any CFD data you can't possibly know the Zebulon kit is better than spage. Another thing to note, how come Zebulon doesn't have CFD data readily available for the m2c's front splitter on the car? Verus does for every single part they manufacture. Because without that CFD data of the entire car, there's always the possibility that they only scanned the front bumper and designed off of that. That means they wouldn't not have taken into consideration the flow fields all the way down the car and how the front splitter effects them.

Also award winning isn't everything, it's the time you spend refining a kit. You can't just rely on reputation and not see any data at all. Also if you just rely on awards and accolades you count out guys like jkf aero - you know Kyle Forester a former Mercedes F1 aerodynamacist with a PhD in aerospace engineering. He was also with the team from 17 - 20 and worked on the fastest F1 car in the world - the Mercedes w11.

This is an example of his work:

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by F87source

I agree, and yet without any CFD data you can't possibly know the Zebulon kit is better than spage. Another thing to note, how come Zebulon doesn't have CFD data readily available for the m2c's front splitter on the car? Verus does for every single part they manufacture. Because without that CFD data of the entire car, there's always the possibility that they only scanned the front bumper and designed off of that. That means they wouldn't not have taken into consideration the flow fields all the way down the car and how the front splitter effects them.

Also award winning isn't everything, it's the time you spend refining a kit. You can't just rely on reputation and not see any data at all. Also if you just rely on awards and accolades you count out guys like jkf aero - you know Kyle Forester a former Mercedes F1 aerodynamacist with a PhD in aerospace engineering. He was also with the team from 17 - 20 and worked on the fastest F1 car in the world - the Mercedes w11.

This is an example of his work:
https://youtu.be/CZi0NuGYKE0

You are dense. Use the wonderful technology at your disposal to have a conversation with those that know what they’re talking about and maybe they’ll share the details you need to feel secure with a purchase.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by DRLane

You are dense. Use the wonderful technology at your disposal to have a conversation with those that know what they’re talking about and maybe they’ll share the details you need to feel secure with a purchase.

You're one to talk. It already seems like you're well sold on reputation alone.

Like I said before, for readily available kits no CFD data means it's anyone's guess to what's better. Everyone's good at talking and convincing to give you that warm fuzzy feeling you so desire to make the sale final, I'm more interested in irrefutable data. For example there are plenty of rear wing manufacturers that make wings that are extremely well designed in CFD. But they only designed it as a standalone item, they didn't taken into account what the flow fields were like behind the car, so there's no guarantees that once you bolt it onto the trunk that the flow fields coming off the roof of the car will be clean, and that the wings high enough to get clean flow. That's the whole point of designing it with the car it's meant to be used on in mind.

With bespoke custom made kits find a reputable aero shop to work with you on the goals you have in mind.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by F87source

You're one to talk. It already seems like you're well sold on reputation alone.

Like I said before, for readily available kits no CFD data means it's anyone's guess to what's better. Everyone's good at talking and convincing to give you that warm fuzzy feeling you so desire to make the sale final, I'm more interested in irrefutable data. For example there are plenty of rear wing manufacturers that make wings that are extremely well designed in CFD. But they only designed it as a standalone item, they didn't taken into account what the flow fields were like behind the car, so there's no guarantees that once you bolt it onto the trunk that the flow fields coming off the roof of the car will be clean, and that the wings high enough to get clean flow. That's the whole point of designing it with the car it's meant to be used on in mind.

With bespoke custom made kits find a reputable aero shop to work with you on the goals you have in mind.

You’re literally going in circles.

“I want proof” and I’m saying yes that’s fair. Please go have a conversation with the experts and get your proof. That can be a completely new product development conversation or you might find that all the parts available aren’t widely published for self-serve. If you look around at the endless copy cats through all the tiers of solutions you’ll find high end data is tightly controlled.

Sometimes it’s because someone else paid for it doesn’t want you to have it, or selling parts isn’t their primary business model.

But what is available, if you’re actually serious about spending $$$ on a solution is a expert’s time to share what’s possible today, tomorrow, and beyond. Again if you’re even in the market which it appears you’re not.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by DRLane

You’re literally going in circles.

“I want proof” and I’m saying yes that’s fair. Please go have a conversation with the experts and get your proof. That can be a completely new product development conversation or you might find that all the parts available aren’t widely published for self-serve. If you look around at the endless copy cats through all the tiers of solutions you’ll find high end data is tightly controlled.

Sometimes it’s because someone else paid for it doesn’t want you to have it, or selling parts isn’t their primary business model.

But what is available, if you’re actually serious about spending $$$ on a solution is a expert’s time to share what’s possible today, tomorrow, and beyond. Again if you’re even in the market which it appears you’re not.

That's what I was trying to get at too. I just thought you meant speak only to Zebulon and theyll affirm to you that they have better products based on only their data. But yes, speak to both, pick the best one.



For bespoke stuff data comparison won't matter because there's nothing to compare to, you're literally building from nothing.



No I'm not in the market for bespoke aero, if I were I would be contacting verus or jkf aero. I'm simply replying to a question posted by someone asking if there was a chassis mounted splitter readily available for the OG m2. In that case spage is the only option. If you want one from Zebulon you'd either had to go to them for 3d scans, that's the only proper way to get it designed with the flow fields of the entire car in mind.

[DRLane]

Removing myself from the previous chain of circular logic.

If folks that are in the market for aero packages bespoke or off the shelf for the OG M2 or the comp, I would strongly encourage you to chat with aforementioned experts as not everything is advertised. That’s not discriminatory to Spage chat with them too!

Something to consider is packages are typically designed to be balanced front/rear for said chassis. So the wing might be a useful reference for the splitter downforce given the equitable balance.

[DRLane]

Thanks to F87source for tuning me into Kyle’s aero content and consultancy! Under @kyleengineers on YT.

Other worthwhile review is HPAs interview with Andrew Brilliant of AMB. Another leading aerodynamicist. HPA is an awesome podcast and training platform for Motorsport. I bought a number of their suspension courses and it’s super worthwhile content.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000555152185

[F87source]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Thanks to F87source for tuning me into Kyle’s aero content and consultancy! Under @kyleengineers on YT.

Other worthwhile review is HPAs interview with Andrew Brilliant of AMB. Another leading aerodynamicist. HPA is an awesome podcast and training platform for Motorsport. I bought a number of their suspension courses and it’s super worthwhile content.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000555152185

You got it!

Here's another one: https://www.youtube.com/@BSport320

His name is Martin Buchan, he was a former F1 aerodynamiacist for force India/Racing point, then before that he was an aero guy for Audi. He is around the same level as Kyle (although not as accredited) and has very good Youtube content (way more than Kyle - and even had one talking about building a wing tip step by step for the alpha tauri). He also has online courses as well, overall great content.