[Maynard]

Originally Posted by TargaM2

....
Your 2nd point about safety “obviously” dictating you require a cage when using a harness is absolute rubbish. A 1 piece seat & correctly fitted harness is the safest/best track option regardless of whether you are using a cage or not (obviously a cage offers an additional benefit & is required when progressing to higher levels of competition).

I do not believe this is correct; without a cage, a full harness is not safest/best. When you have a fixed seat and harness, a roll cage is also required or at least advisable (rollover protection hoop, not neccessarily a full cage). Otherwise, the belts/seat will hold the driver fully erect in the seat, incurring risk from roof collapse. Street cars are tough, but they assume that in a crash you are curled over into the airbag (or could be) so you are not held in place; this is also the case for the Quickfit setup with "ASM". I believe that this is part of the BMW CCA regs for HPDE. Since HPDE is so loosely regulated, I assume there are other sanctioning bodies that could not care less and would let you run sitting on a milk crate.

And related to other posts:
I don't think they just 'make up their standards' - they are getting DOT approval which implies that they are meeting a DOT specification/standard. And it would be incorrect to assume that every aspect of an F87 seat is superior to E92; they are testing for downforce on the back, probably not something the OEM's look at specifically. This said, I think it is a safe application, I just think it needs to be a personal decision - I used QF's in my F22 and am eager fo find a way to put them into the F87 (either get custom holes put into my M2C seatbacks, or retrofit a set of OG M2 seats).

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by David.m

correct that I don't have evidence of the F87, e82/92 seat testing but to say there is no evidence is overlooking the rigorous crash/safety testing all vehicles undergo during R&D and later by various regulatory bodies that result in a vehicle/model safety rating.

Of course it's possible BMW went to a weaker seat back structure in the F series but without evidence of that it surely is reasonable and the most likely case that the F seat is equal or better.

Schroth's testing I imagine is consistent with the type of testing accepted in the industry otherwise imagine the financial risk (ie litigation) they are exposed to in 'approving' the Quickfit/Pro for fitment as they prescribe.

Ultimately as you say it's personal choice, for a road registered car without a cage & using a 3/4 point harness I'd much rather have the Schroth with ASM & oem seat.

Just because they have their own testing procedures doesn’t automatically protect them against litigation lol.

I just don’tike to make life safety decisions with words like “assume” and “imagine”. I’ll take the oem 3 pt system with airbags and keep my top speed reasonable.

[David.m]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

Just because they have their own testing procedures doesn’t automatically protect them against litigation lol.

I just don’tike to make life safety decisions with words like “assume” and “imagine”. I’ll take the oem 3 pt system with airbags and keep my top speed reasonable.

lol.....that isn't what I was suggesting.....Schroth is a well regarded major brand in motorsport, you think they're going to undertake a safety testing/approval process that is deficient/incompetent from either an engineering or legal perspective? I'm saying no but if you have evidence to the contrary please share.
No one is making 'life safety decisions' based on assumptions or the like. I simply trust (reasonably I'd argue) that BMW carried over the seat integrity standards from the e82/90 to the F22/87. Now if we were talking about Ford/GM I might not be so confident, Great Wall Motor I'd say no chance.

[MooMooM2]

are the reason these belts not "approved" just because of the seat? So say you have a cobra or a recaro would then the e9x setup be "ok" for the m2 (from scrhotch or their distributer perspective)?

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

are the reason these belts not "approved" just because of the seat? So say you have a cobra or a recaro would then the e9x setup be "ok" for the m2 (from scrhotch or their distributer perspective)?

Technically no as according to Schroth, “Quick Fit harnesses are not approved for use with any fixed back or aftermarket seats with the following exceptions: The Cobra Nogaro and Recaro Pole Position ABE are approved for use with QuickFIt harnesses in already approved vehicles.”

There is definitely some legal cya going on but given all the knowns I personally feel comfortable fitting a Pole Position ABE and quick-fit pros with the optional sub belt as my solution for a dual-use vehicle that retains the 3-point.

Safety is personal, and what various organizations will and will not allow vary.