[M3PGH]

now I am at 2000 miles and still loving the M2
some times it is hard to express a feeling in words, but the M2 feels enjoyable to drive. When I don't drive it for couple of days, I miss it
again i believe the size of the M2 gives it the edge over M3/M4
I was going to park it for winter, but since it is fun to drive ,I just ordered winter wheel/tire set .

[tke743]

Originally Posted by akkando

I really like that purple on the M3 but I am not sure I could rock it as my only car. Seems like a purple car is something for special occasions.

What was the issue with the ZCP.

Daytona Violet is rather subtle, for a purple. There was no problem rocking it for all occasions.

The issues with the ZCP were with that specific car. It's a long and sordid story, not appropriate for this thread. I don't want to sidetrack the topic.

[Zero_Cool]

Originally Posted by tke743

I'll chime in. I owned a 2016 M3 (non-ZCP), a 2016 M2, and a 2017 M3 ZCP. I put a minimum of 3k miles on each and tracked all 3. Here is my review updated with M3 ZCP added.
------------------------

There are differences that make them appeal to different audiences.
M2 appeals to a slightly younger audience (All the comments I got were from 20 somethings). No kids, not over 6', and/or if price difference is a hit to your standard of living, then get the M2.

M3 appeals to BMW guys (Most comments come from 30+ year olds.) Have kids, over 6', and/or price difference makes no real difference to your standard of living then (in the past, see last paragraph) go for the M3.

I've got over 8K miles in a non-ZCP M3, over 3500 miles in an M2, and 6500 miles in a M3 ZCP.

Yes, the difference is in the engine and the body/interior.

There is definitely a reason the M3 costs more. The question is if it is worth $20k more to you. That $20k is what you are really looking, at feature for feature. The suspension is the same (ish, adaptive vs. passive), the steering is the same. In the ZCP they fixed the dead spot on center issue and the steering feels just like the M2 (just a bit slower on turn in based on it's size). The steering in the ZCP is actually quite good. The ZCP is better planted then the early M3's that were tail happy and tricky to drive. There was a software update for the early M3's got them to 90% of the ZCP, but 90% is not 100%.

In a straight line there is no comparison. The M3 will walk away from the M2. The M3's engine is special, the M2's is "only" great. The M3 has the cooling to prevent heat soak, the M2 does not and it appeared quickly on a hot day. My take is that the M3 justifies $10k of the difference here. Note: the M2 still sounds better than the M3.

The M2 is easier to drive and drive fast. Part of this is that the car is MUCH shorter. It is more of a sports car, than the M3's sport sedan (I'm old and I see the current M3 as a M5 from my youth). The M3 ZCP is faster. The M2 at 10/10ths is easy and accessible, even to a novice. Not so in the M3. A ZCP M3 at 9/10 is faster than the M2 at 10/10. Going past 9/10 in the M3 you know there is an angry beast waiting for you if you cross the line. With the M2 there isn't.

The interior of the M2 is nothing special, the M3's interior is. I find the M2's seats uncomfortable after a long drive, and way too high up. I feel like I'm sitting on the car not in it vs the M3. The M2's seat height is the same as my wife's 328 wagon. I found the M3's seats to be very comfortable. I would easily say the M3's interior is $10k better than the M2's. The M2's burnt wicker trim drove me to distraction, sure this is a bit OCD, but it did.

Convenience of 4 doors. If this is important to you (kids) then there isn't a comparable car on the market to the M3, that said my kids prefered the M2. I also think it's the best looking of the M2/M3/M4 family, but that might have been the Daytona Violet paint.

Part of why people associate fun with the M2 is that a majority of them are sticks. The stick adds a character to the M cars that can't be replaced by any level of jiggery pokery from a DCT. Even if it's slower. My F87 is stick and so was my M3 ZCP.

All this said. Due to an issue with my M3 ZCP I now no longer own an M3, and I'm high on the waitlist for the M2 Competition. If they actually put the S55 in there, cool it, change the seats, give me interior options other than burnt wicker, and make it look a bit more aggressive looking I will be a very happy man.

I always thought Daytona Violet was one of the most unique M colors! The E36 M paints seem to be the best choices for individual colors on the F8Xs. I did notice the seat in the M2 sat really high compared to my M4.. I guess I would make the switch if I could get a decent dollar private selling my car. My trade in value was enough to get out if I really wanted the M2, but I wasn't head over heels for it if that makes sense. I guess the M2 reminded me of my boy wonder infatuation I had with the Evo IXs for so many years. I love the interior in my M4 and its just big enough for my two kids. I didn't have them when I test drove the M2 but I did look at the back seat and it looked much smaller..

[tke743]

Originally Posted by Zero_Cool

I always thought Daytona Violet was one of the most unique M colors! The E36 M paints seem to be the best choices for individual colors on the F8Xs. I did notice the seat in the M2 sat really high compared to my M4.. I guess I would make the switch if I could get a decent dollar private selling my car. My trade in value was enough to get out if I really wanted the M2, but I wasn't head over heels for it if that makes sense. I guess the M2 reminded me of my boy wonder infatuation I had with the Evo IXs for so many years. I love the interior in my M4 and its just big enough for my two kids. I didn't have them when I test drove the M2 but I did look at the back seat and it looked much smaller..

My kids are 8 (a big 8, no booster seat) and 6 (a small 6, with booster seat). They loved the back of the M2, and the 230i loaner I had for a couple months.

[jackcc]

My kids love riding in the M2 over their mom's minivan. My 5 yr. old in booster seat with seatback and 3 yr. old is in a hardshelled child seat. The space back there for the child seat is just fine even with the larger shell. With the booster seat, I would call it spacious, and she loves it there. I'm 5'8" husky build and the wife is 5'3".

[BruceM]

Interesting. I've owned one BMW or another for over 15 years, so I at least FEEL like a "BMW guy," and I'm nowhere close to my 20's. My favorite before the M2 was a Dinan E36 M3. But I totaled it on a wet freeway on-ramp, so I went looking to get me a new M3. Money was not an issue at the level of an M3, no matter how loaded.

I wanted a coupe again, so I started with an M4, even though I liked the M3's looks better. But my test drive (and my dealer let me wring it out pretty good, albeit not on a track) left me cold. The car felt nothing like my old M3. It felt like a big, twitchy muscle car and sounded like a raspy bucket of bolts (and that was with an MPE).

So I got my hands on an M2, and I was back home--although a clearly modernized home. Tweaked the clutch with a UCP and an SSK, lowered it a tad, put a Dinan P2 kit on it (big turbo, intake, IC and piggy, but without exhaust) and a sport cat--and I'm happy as a pig in slop. Heat soak not an issue, power is enough that modulation of the throttle is a must on the track, and speeds have to get stupid high before a M3 starts pulling me at all--and at that point on local tracks we both need to back out of it anyway. And on the street or in the canyons, just a much more enjoyable car to drive for me.

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by BruceM

Interesting. I've owned one BMW or another for over 15 years, so I at least FEEL like a "BMW guy," and I'm nowhere close to my 20's. My favorite before the M2 was a Dinan E36 M3. But I totaled it on a wet freeway on-ramp, so I went looking to get me a new M3. Money was not an issue at the level of an M3, no matter how loaded.

I wanted a coupe again, so I started with an M4, even though I liked the M3's looks better. But my test drive (and my dealer let me wring it out pretty good, albeit not on a track) left me cold. The car felt nothing like my old M3. It felt like a big, twitchy muscle car and sounded like a raspy bucket of bolts (and that was with an MPE).

So I got my hands on an M2, and I was back home--although a clearly modernized home. Tweaked the clutch with a UCP and an SSK, lowered it a tad, put a Dinan P2 kit on it (big turbo, intake, IC and piggy, but without exhaust) and a sport cat--and I'm happy as a pig in slop. Heat soak not an issue, power is enough that modulation of the throttle is a must on the track, and speeds have to get stupid high before a M3 starts pulling me at all--and at that point on local tracks we both need to back out of it anyway. And on the street or in the canyons, just a much more enjoyable car to drive for me.

I'm getting the SSK installed in a couple of weeks. I'm hoping it will tidy up the abundant slop that's present in the OE shifter. Also getting upgraded street pads installed so I can comfortably slow down from warp speed created by the P2.

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by jackcc

My kids love riding in the M2 over their mom's minivan .

If they didn't, I'd question their cognitive awareness.

[CosmosMpower]

I have not seen/heard of any heat soak issues with the M2.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I have not seen/heard of any heat soak issues with the M2.

Then you aren't pushing it hard enough. There's data available on the subject. Looking at IAT you can see a lot of heat soak after like 2-3 launches or rolling starts.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by stefan

Then you aren't pushing it hard enough. There's data available on the subject. Looking at IAT you can see a lot of heat soak after like 2-3 launches or rolling starts.

LOL I've done 30 min sessions running faster lap times than F80 M3's at COTA, 30 min sessions at a few local tracks with no straights (aka cooling) running faster lap times than GT4's in 100F+ TX summer air temps and 130F+ track temps.

Launches or rolling starts? Don't even talk to me drag race boy.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

LOL I've done 30 min sessions running faster lap times than F80 M3's at COTA, 30 min sessions at a few local tracks with no straights (aka cooling) running faster lap times than GT4's in 100F+ TX summer air temps and 130F+ track temps.

Launches or rolling starts? Don't even talk to me drag race boy.

Since you have a choice between the M2, M4, and the GT3 on track, which do you like driving at the track? Which do you like driving on the street?

[stefan]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

LOL I've done 30 min sessions running faster lap times than F80 M3's at COTA, 30 min sessions at a few local tracks with no straights (aka cooling) running faster lap times than GT4's in 100F+ TX summer air temps and 130F+ track temps.

Launches or rolling starts? Don't even talk to me drag race boy.

Oh man I didn't realize I was dealing with Michael Schumacher here. You should probably inform Motortrend that they're full of it as well. You are faster than M3s? Dang I am so sorry to take that tone with you sir. Clearly a driving god.

Yep, I like straight line acceleration. Sue me. But are you really suggesting an intercooler from the M235i and an engine with limited overboost are somehow not going to subject to heat soak? OK. I guess everyone upgrading their FMIC because of heat soak are drag racers or morons right? Or maybe not as good at driving? I can't tell.

I don't have huge expectations for the motor. I will be pleasantly surprised if I have no issues with heat soak on hot day. Local track has a long straight. Otherwise I'll assume you have a special case here and that my modern BMW turbo motor is similar to most other BMW turbo motors.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

LOL I've done 30 min sessions running faster lap times than F80 M3's at COTA, 30 min sessions at a few local tracks with no straights (aka cooling) running faster lap times than GT4's in 100F+ TX summer air temps and 130F+ track temps.

Launches or rolling starts? Don't even talk to me drag race boy.

Sounds like stefan has data and you do not, though...

[diavliyo]

I love m3

[MR_M2]

Originally Posted by chris719

Sounds like stefan has data and you do not, though...

Found his time at COTA in his M2: 2:34.653
Not sure how many people track their car in this forum, but running that number at COTA is no joke. I went to the AMG academy at COTA this summer and it's around the time what the instructor achieved in the AMG GTS, with 500hp and a bespoke chassis.
CosmosMpower knows how to drive, and that too at the limit.
He wouldn't have achieved that time even if there was even an iota of heat soak issue.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by MR_M2

Found his time at COTA in his M2: 2:34.653
Not sure how many people track their car in this forum, but running that number at COTA is no joke. I went to the AMG academy at COTA this summer and it's around the time what the instructor achieved in the AMG GTS, with 500hp and a bespoke chassis.
CosmosMpower knows how to drive, and that too at the limit.
He wouldn't have achieved that time even if there was even an iota of heat soak issue.

I am not saying he doesn't know how to drive. Just saying, if there are actual logs showing it then maybe it can happen. It might not be enough to feel, is what I was getting at. Clearly there is not a huge problem or it would be widely reported, and it's not.

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

I'm getting the SSK installed in a couple of weeks. I'm hoping it will tidy up the abundant slop that's present in the OE shifter. Also getting upgraded street pads installed so I can comfortably slow down from warp speed created by the P2.

What street pads are you getting?

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by boostm3

What street pads are you getting?

Hawk 5.0

Recommended by Tire Rack as well as others, we'll see

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by akkando

Since you have a choice between the M2, M4, and the GT3 on track, which do you like driving at the track? Which do you like driving on the street?

F80 M3 for street, GT3 on track but it's a lot more work and harder to drive fast. The GT3 can be a handful at times and you have to work harder to extract all the performance.

M2 is maybe the most fun for a casual track day and pretty fun for a street car too just does not have the raw power of the M3.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by stefan

But are you really suggesting an intercooler from the M235i and an engine with limited overboost are somehow not going to subject to heat soak?

Give it a rest....drag racing load and road course heat loads and more importantly cooling scenarios are not the same. Drag racing you do a few hard pulls and come to a stop, that's primarily when heat soak happens.

Read this article for what changes BMW did for additional cooling on the M2. It's not just an M235i engine with the same intercooler.

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2016/02/22...ng-the-bmw-m2/

The front engine compartment shielding is new for the F87 BMW M2

The left and right underbody panelling has been adopted from the F80 BMW M3

The left and right underbody panelling extension at the rear has been newly adapted for the F87 BMW M2

The underbody panelling at the rear right and left has been newly adapted for the F87 BMW M2

Cooling air routing for the radiator is new

Cooling air routing for the external radiator is new

Cooling air routing for the engine oil cooler is new

Additional engine oil-air heat exchanger at the front right

An engine oil-coolant heat exchanger is installed under the coolant expansion tank supported by a 850 W electric fan.

An additional electrical 50 W coolant pump circulates the coolant from the external coolant-air heat exchanger via the engine oil-coolant heat exchanger back to the radiator

[No Boost]

^I don't even think it's the same IC as the 235. It's a tad bigger iirc.