[ScBlacksunshine]

Originally Posted by Deutsche-Broke

Piss poor article.. Hoped to see more from the "Jalopnik" interns...

After reading this, I'm picturing them "Throwing keys up in the air in slo-mo" like a TV producer told them to and their own "quirky" personalities catching the key to the perfect car, and them scattering with fire decaled helmets on.... Like an episode of Top Gear U.S.

"Let's roll guys! Amirite?", as everyone is vaping as you hear the "click" of the seat belt..

Fucking Garbage..

This article made me wonder why R&T is still in business. But I guess they have to compete with the "You Tubers" for ad revenue...

Probably won't be for long. The car magazine print business has been on a decline just like all other print media, so at the end of the day there will only be so many of them left and smart one like C&D and MT have used other media to make up for the difference like Youtube content. Then you have R&T, if you go check out their Youtube channel, the content is lacking. R/T sort of reminds me of motorcycle site that used to be good like Rideapart (Hellforleather) that is now in the toilet....

[redux]

Originally Posted by Goombeh

I found that funny too.... found it even funnier that after all that, the 1M 's lap time was almost identical to the 'much' improved M2.

It was also noted that the M2 pulls on both the M235i and 1M down the main straight, so the 1M was potentially out-braking or out-cornering the M2.....or both..

Unfortunately there's no video comparing the laps. Judging from experience, the driver was probably working their ass of in the 1M to get that close to the M2.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by redux

Unfortunately there's no video comparing the laps. Judging from experience, the driver was probably working their ass of in the 1M to get that close to the M2.

That can be but in tight corners it also can be the other way around. 1M feels more pointy, front end (mine did) than the overall more balanced M2...

Edit:talking about faster(track) driving. I have the need for bucketseats
The M2 is so fast/grippy(G Force) around longer bends(neutral) I'm almost flipping out of my seat(I have the electric bolster), vs the 1M. Are those seats very different? Don't get it...

Cheers
Robin

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

That can be but in tight corners it also can be the other way around. 1M feels more pointy, front end (mine did) than the overall more balanced M2...

Edit:talking about faster(track) driving. I have the need for bucketseats
The M2 is so fast/grippy(G Force) around longer bends(neutral) I'm almost flipping out of my seat(I have the electric bolster), vs the 1M. Are those seats very different? Don't get it...

Cheers
Robin

Try tightening the bolsters (a good way to check if you've been eating too many waffles, or if you need to eat more) and move your seat forward. If you have it reclined, start with it a little bit back. This is what I do:

1) Put the seat down as far as possible and as far back as possible.
2) Get in car
3) move seat in till my knees are bent enough to be able to push me back into the seat hard if I flex my legs and my wrists can touch the top of the steering wheel with my elbows bent a little.
4) Adjust seat back to something like absolutely vertical
5) Headrest
6) Bolsters

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by Goombeh

I found that funny too.... found it even funnier that after all that, the 1M 's lap time was almost identical to the 'much' improved M2.

I laughed too, because it's the exact opposite of every other track test. Maybe it's the driver(s)?

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

Try tightening the bolsters (a good way to check if you've been eating too many waffles, or if you need to eat more) and move your seat forward. If you have it reclined, start with it a little bit back. This is what I do:

1) Put the seat down as far as possible and as far back as possible.
2) Get in car
3) move seat in till my knees are bent enough to be able to push me back into the seat hard if I flex my legs and my wrists can touch the top of the steering wheel with my elbows bent a little.
4) Adjust seat back to something like absolutely vertical
5) Headrest
6) Bolsters

Valid points, I have to sit lower etc. just like I did in my 1M.
I did not pay attention to my seating position the last week, my bad.
I'm going to adjust the seat tonight.

Cheers
Robin

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

I laughed too, because it's the exact opposite of every other track test. Maybe it's the driver(s)?

Carjournos tend to back off a bit when driving 1M near its limits because it's a 'mini widow maker' or so they say. But it's the OEM tyres which are not progressive enough: Pilot Sport 2 are ON/OFF switches in terms of grip/traction. When on winterwheels it's so smooth sliding around.Heaven...

And the P Zeros (same spec as oem) I put on were way more progressive and friendly near/on the limit.

Anyway, the 1M is a great car, imho 10 times better than ANY 228...come on guys please...

And yep I'm doing track and driftdays. This you cannot do with a stock 228i

It's like this: The 228i being chosen as the winner= More airtime, more publicity. Marketing. But irl...not a bloody chance.


Cheers
Robin

[redux]

Yeah, those PS2's were diabolical when pushed hard. Due to the 1m unicorn status it will always be loved by some, sought by many, hated by most. The funny thing about this article is that some of the jabs they were taking at the car are things that endear it to me. I think cartoonish, nervous, and difficult sounds like a recipe for fun. Others will use it as a sounding board validate their dislike of the car. I however, love bad cars (The cilo v6 is still my favorite road car I ever driven).

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Legal Bill

I drove a 228i for a weekend and I was very impressed. I can see why they came down this way. But I still prefer the 235. I want the big power push and the steering feels fine to me on the street. I use the power punch 100x more than I use the adhesion limits.

This

I came from 335i to S2000 and now back to M235i. Power is addictive and I use all of that N55 every day. 228i is obviously not even close to S2000 in feel, weight, and handling.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

I agree and think that what's the M2 should have been. A lighter car with a nice 4 cylinder turbo with plenty enough horsepower but a sweeter balance. Then it would not have competed against the M3/4 but would be a real entry level M car...

I was definitely hoping the M2 would be a light car with a 4 cylinder motor. Instead they continued with " heavier but faster .."

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by redux

Unfortunately there's no video comparing the laps. Judging from experience, the driver was probably working their ass of in the 1M to get that close to the M2.

A total challenge ....! And challenge accepted and won by that driver I would say !

[Robin_NL]

M2 with a 4 pot engine and >360BHP(like Merc 45 AMG) and >100kgs less would be fine with me, but the higly strung engine plus no more headroom for a power tune makes me rethink...

Cheers
Robin

[G-Mann]

Just finished the article. Congratulations to the 228i for winning this shootout, taking down the mighty m235i and even mighter M2.

My first impression while reading the article was the author was not a very capable driver and basically strong armed his counterpart to vote his way.
My last impression with the comment "The mountain does not lie" was "The performance numbers don't lie"

The important thing is everybody is satisfied with what they got and BMW made several superb trims for us to choose from. I look forward to test driving the 230i, M240i and getting a M2GC.

[sstarrx3]

Originally Posted by Kiwi

I have a lot of fun in my 116i and my 220i and after driving a 235i I'm happy with BMW's smaller engines.

If you only want straight line speed then the 235i will be the car but for cornering and out right fun using the cars gears the 116i/220i is the cars. These cars are so well balance and drive like go carts. It's a shame BMW America does not import these engines.

Well, the 320i is sold here and it is a dog! Its like driving a MB C250, with a better tranny. I imagine it would be much better in the smaller 220 iand 116i though.

[Viffermike]

I'm sorry to hear of the M235i owners that feel butt hurt. :: cue tiny finger violin :: ...

... but I gotta say (and others have already noted) that the article says very little that isn't already well known to those who actually read, have driven both the 228 and 235 (or: some who've driven the M2 as well), and actually listen to and consider what others say are the advantages of one 2 Series model over others.

What I find the most interesting are the objective test numbers concerning handling and braking. The 228i's brakes -- non M Sport brakes -- actually perform better than the M Sport brakes on the 235 likely because of the weight difference and nose-heavy nature of the latter car. Also, the 235 only bests the 228i on the skidpad by .01G -- and that's a 228i with run-flats! Put proper non-RFT shoes on the 228i, and I bet it at least matches the 235. Why? Again: the nose-heavy nature of the 235.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: a lighter, more well balanced car with less power is going to perform better in 'the real world' and be more fun and satisfying to drive than a heavier and less well balanced car with more power. This is precisely why I chose a 228i M Sport over the M235i. Guess where this realization comes from? Two places: my experience with high-performance sport motorcycles both on the street and on the track, and my experience with small cars over my lifetime. I've never owned the top-of-the-line model of any car --even when I've been able to afford that top model -- for this very reason.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I'm sorry to hear of the M235i owners that feel butt hurt. :: cue tiny finger violin :: ...

... but I gotta say (and others have already noted) that the article says very little that isn't already well known to those who actually read, have driven both the 228 and 235 (or: some who've driven the M2 as well), and actually listen to and consider what others say are the advantages of one 2 Series model over others.

What I find the most interesting are the objective test numbers concerning handling and braking. The 228i's brakes -- non M Sport brakes -- actually perform better than the M Sport brakes on the 235 likely because of the weight difference and nose-heavy nature of the latter car. Also, the 235 only bests the 228i on the skidpad by .01G -- and that's a 228i with run-flats! Put proper non-RFT shoes on the 228i, and I bet it at least matches the 235. Why? Again: the nose-heavy nature of the 235.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: a lighter, more well balanced car with less power is going to perform better in 'the real world' and be more fun and satisfying to drive than a heavier and less well balanced car with more power. This is precisely why I chose a 228i M Sport over the M235i. Guess where this realization comes from? Two places: my experience with high-performance sport motorcycles both on the street and on the track, and my experience with small cars over my lifetime. I've never owned the top-of-the-line model of any car --even when I've been able to afford that top model -- for this very reason.

How much heaver is the nose on 235i ? weight distribution is only 1.5% difference

edit: its comes out to 159lbs for nose

[Luddy]

Originally Posted by Legal Bill

I drove a 228i for a weekend and I was very impressed. I can see why they came down this way. But I still prefer the 235. I want the big power push and the steering feels fine to me on the street. I use the power punch 100x more than I use the adhesion limits.

I agree with this. Maybe it is living in PA and simply not being near many roads where I can clearly see what is around the corner. Between bicyclist, other cars, and amish buggies I don't often get close to the cornering limits, but get to use the straight line power a decent amount.

[TMP]

What a load of toss! 228i over all those three - credibility zero!

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by W///

Great read, thanks for sharing!

And in before all hell breaks loose.....

Once again, somewhere in NYC, IEDEI just fainted. Whilst polishing his 1M's tailpipes.

[W///]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Once again, somewhere in NYC, IEDEI just fainted. Whilst polishing his 1M's tailpipes.

That's pretty damn hilarious

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Also, the 235 only bests the 228i on the skidpad by .01G -- and that's a 228i with run-flats! Put proper non-RFT shoes on the 228i, and I bet it at least matches the 235. Why? Again: the nose-heavy nature of the 235.

The 228i in that test was on 225/245r18 Michelin Pilot Super Sports just like the M235. There were no run flats in the test.

The M235 has a staggering 1.7% greater mass on the front end than a 228i and massive .8% greater front end mass compared to the M2 and some people act the M235 behaves like a FWD car Only R&T has been rather negative regarding the M235 and for the most part it's been one specific writer at R&T. All other mags have been in love with the M235. Automobile magazine wrote an absolutely gushing review of their longterm M235.

The 228i is an awesome car doubt, but rather slow, IMO. 9+mph difference in 1/4 mile trapspeed is massive.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Legal Bill

I drove a 228i for a weekend and I was very impressed. I can see why they came down this way. But I still prefer the 235. I want the big power push and the steering feels fine to me on the street. I use the power punch 100x more than I use the adhesion limits.

Originally Posted by Luddy

I agree with this. Maybe it is living in PA and simply not being near many roads where I can clearly see what is around the corner. Between bicyclist, other cars, and amish buggies I don't often get close to the cornering limits, but get to use the straight line power a decent amount.

Yep, I'm with Legal with this one too. Much more opportunity on public streets to put the throttle to the floor versus going sideways around a corner. I love track days pushing it on every corner, but who thinks it's not fun to go fast in a straight line too?